Do results still matter to the Board?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

If you ask many a Norwich fan of the worst City managers of recent times, the same names will invariably crop up - Deehan, Megson, Hamilton, Gunn, Roeder, Grant, Rioch.

 

Inevitably these managers have low win %''s -

 

- Megson - 18.52% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Deehan - 22.4%

- Hughton (this season) - 23%

- Hamilton - 28.6%

- Gunn - 28.6%

- Hughton (overall) - 29.3%

- Roeder - 30.8%

- Rioch - 32.3%

- Grant - 34%

 

Where does Hughton fit into the above?

Overall -

- Hughton - 29.3%

This season -

- Hughton - 23%

 

Another way that results can be looked at is defeat %''s - i.e. the % of games where you do not get any points -

 

- Hughton (this season) - 50%

- Megson - 48% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Gunn - 48%

- Roeder - 46%

- Grant - 45%

- Hamilton - 43%

- Hughton (overall) - 41%

- Deehan - 40%

- Rioch - 34%

 

Hughton - overall - 41%

               - this season - 50%

 

One has to acknowledge that Hughton''s record is in the Premier League, however, he has the most expensive Norwich squad ever assembled at his disposal.  This season it has been shown that 50% of games can be written off, if that continues, in essence we have 6 games to get enough points to stay up.

 

Perhaps the only thing that has so far saved Hughton is what McNally talked about when on Radio Norfolk, that when a result is needed, Hughton gets one and that just 1 win could take us up to around mid-table. So perhaps they are hoping that we will get the win against Spurs that we need?[:^)]

 

 

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

"So perhaps they are hoping that we will get the win against Spurs that we need?" I dread to think what them buffoons are hoping for. I DO HOWEVER know that if they genuinely thought we were in trouble they would of strengthened PROPERLY in January, but they didn''t so I can only assume A, they are all blind or B, they don''t have a clue between them all. Let''s be real here THEY have made 1 great move between them all in Lambert. But look how they treated him!! Best thing to happen to this club in 15+ years

[Molly Windley 76]

NBS

If you have the stats to hand could you post up Lamberts for the prem to compare? Thanks

[ex-greenoschin 0]

I appreciate you say you acknowledge Hughton is playing in the prem. but how do you factor in the comparative quality of our team versus teams we were competing with in the lower leagues with our other managers?

Also we may have the most expensive squad at our disposal but how does this squad compare with our Premiership rivals in terms of cost, wages paid and quality?

In fairness this is a rhetorical question but shows how you can massage the stats to suit any agenda

[CanaryOne 0]

The fact Hughton is still here rather shows they have given up , Hoots in charge next season in the  Champs , he got Newcastle promoted and Birmingham into the play offs  .

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Stats can be massaged and it is difficult to compare different managers at different times and in different leagues, by looking at stats and how to factor in certain things, almost like a handicap if you will.

 

I agree that stats can be massaged to suit an agenda, but I haven''t done that here.  I put forward the stats in comparison with the worst Norwich managers of recent times and finished by suggesting a possible reason why Hughton is still Norwich manager.

 

The telling stats for me are for this season.  One thing that can''t be denied is that the season so far is not good enough.  A win % of 23% and a defeat % of 50% will result in only one thing and factor in a goal % of 0.73 and no matter how you look at it or wish to compare with other managers it cannot be deemed as anything other than extremely poor.

 

I haven''t looked at Lambert''s Premier League stats.

[City 2nd 191]

CanaryOne wrote the following post at 2014-02-13 12:32 AM:

The fact Hughton is still here rather shows they have given up , Hoots in charge next season in the Champs , he got Newcastle promoted and Birmingham into the play offs .

I repeat, as I have on several posts today, Hughton WILL NOT be our manager next season, regardless of whether we stay in the prem, or get relegated.

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

If you ask many a Norwich fan of the worst City managers of recent times, the same names will invariably crop up - Deehan, Megson, Hamilton, Gunn, Roeder, Grant, Rioch.

 

Inevitably these managers have low win %''s -

 

- Megson - 18.52% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Deehan - 22.4%

- Hughton (this season) - 23%

- Hamilton - 28.6%

- Gunn - 28.6%

- Hughton (overall) - 29.3%

- Roeder - 30.8%

- Rioch - 32.3%

- Grant - 34%

 

Where does Hughton fit into the above?

Overall -

- Hughton - 29.3%

This season -

- Hughton - 23%

 

Another way that results can be looked at is defeat %''s - i.e. the % of games where you do not get any points -

 

- Hughton (this season) - 50%

- Megson - 48% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Gunn - 48%

- Roeder - 46%

- Grant - 45%

- Hamilton - 43%

- Hughton (overall) - 41%

- Deehan - 40%

- Rioch - 34%

 

Hughton - overall - 41%

               - this season - 50%

 

One has to acknowledge that Hughton''s record is in the Premier League, however, he has the most expensive Norwich squad ever assembled at his disposal.  This season it has been shown that 50% of games can be written off, if that continues, in essence we have 6 games to get enough points to stay up.

 

Perhaps the only thing that has so far saved Hughton is what McNally talked about when on Radio Norfolk, that when a result is needed, Hughton gets one and that just 1 win could take us up to around mid-table. So perhaps they are hoping that we will get the win against Spurs that we need?[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]As you acknowledge, you are essentially comparing apples and pears. There are only 4/5 teams in the Premier with less expensive squads. We can lose 6 games out of the remaining 12. I agree with that. It''s not impossible - 3 home wins against bottom 10 clubs, and 3 draws.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="City 2nd"]CanaryOne wrote the following post at 2014-02-13 12:32 AM:

The fact Hughton is still here rather shows they have given up , Hoots in charge next season in the Champs , he got Newcastle promoted and Birmingham into the play offs .

I repeat, as I have on several posts today, Hughton WILL NOT be our manager next season, regardless of whether we stay in the prem, or get relegated.[/quote]Don''t panic, City2nd![:D] It has been noted. It has been filed away,[8-|] along with all sorts of others predictions made by posters on this messageboard. When I need a laugh[:)] I look back at some of the more outlandish[*-)] ones, and those that are a blatant contradiction of earlier predictions...Not that I am suggesting you are going to fall into that sort of category.[;)]

[City 2nd 191]

OC wrote:

Don''t panic, City2nd! It has been noted. It has been filed away, along with all sorts of others predictions made by posters on this messageboard. When I need a laughI look back at some of the more outlandish ones, and those that are a blatant contradiction of earlier predictions...

Not that I am suggesting you are going to fall into that sort of category.

No probs PC, I am confident for a reason, and a one line answer to a question I put to somebody face to face last week.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="M.u.s.t.a.r.d._M.a.t.t.e.r.s"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

If you ask many a Norwich fan of the worst City managers of recent times, the same names will invariably crop up - Deehan, Megson, Hamilton, Gunn, Roeder, Grant, Rioch.

 

Inevitably these managers have low win %''s -

 

- Megson - 18.52% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Deehan - 22.4%

- Hughton (this season) - 23%

- Hamilton - 28.6%

- Gunn - 28.6%

- Hughton (overall) - 29.3%

- Roeder - 30.8%

- Rioch - 32.3%

- Grant - 34%

 

Where does Hughton fit into the above?

Overall -

- Hughton - 29.3%

This season -

- Hughton - 23%

 

Another way that results can be looked at is defeat %''s - i.e. the % of games where you do not get any points -

 

- Hughton (this season) - 50%

- Megson - 48% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Gunn - 48%

- Roeder - 46%

- Grant - 45%

- Hamilton - 43%

- Hughton (overall) - 41%

- Deehan - 40%

- Rioch - 34%

 

Hughton - overall - 41%

               - this season - 50%

 

One has to acknowledge that Hughton''s record is in the Premier League, however, he has the most expensive Norwich squad ever assembled at his disposal.  This season it has been shown that 50% of games can be written off, if that continues, in essence we have 6 games to get enough points to stay up.

 

Perhaps the only thing that has so far saved Hughton is what McNally talked about when on Radio Norfolk, that when a result is needed, Hughton gets one and that just 1 win could take us up to around mid-table. So perhaps they are hoping that we will get the win against Spurs that we need?[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]

As you acknowledge, you are essentially comparing apples and pears.

There are only 4/5 teams in the Premier with less expensive squads.

We can lose 6 games out of the remaining 12. I agree with that. It''s not impossible - 3 home wins against bottom 10 clubs, and 3 draws.


[/quote]

 

I don''t acknowledge that I am essentially comparing apples and pears!

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]OC wrote:

Don''t panic, City2nd! It has been noted. It has been filed away, along with all sorts of others predictions made by posters on this messageboard. When I need a laughI look back at some of the more outlandish ones, and those that are a blatant contradiction of earlier predictions...

Not that I am suggesting you are going to fall into that sort of category.

No probs PC, I am confident for a reason, and a one line answer to a question I put to somebody face to face last week.[/quote]

So that board member admitted to considering we could be back in the Champ.

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="M.u.s.t.a.r.d._M.a.t.t.e.r.s"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

If you ask many a Norwich fan of the worst City managers of recent times, the same names will invariably crop up - Deehan, Megson, Hamilton, Gunn, Roeder, Grant, Rioch.

 

Inevitably these managers have low win %''s -

 

- Megson - 18.52% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Deehan - 22.4%

- Hughton (this season) - 23%

- Hamilton - 28.6%

- Gunn - 28.6%

- Hughton (overall) - 29.3%

- Roeder - 30.8%

- Rioch - 32.3%

- Grant - 34%

 

Where does Hughton fit into the above?

Overall -

- Hughton - 29.3%

This season -

- Hughton - 23%

 

Another way that results can be looked at is defeat %''s - i.e. the % of games where you do not get any points -

 

- Hughton (this season) - 50%

- Megson - 48% (not inc. 5 games as caretaker)

- Gunn - 48%

- Roeder - 46%

- Grant - 45%

- Hamilton - 43%

- Hughton (overall) - 41%

- Deehan - 40%

- Rioch - 34%

 

Hughton - overall - 41%

               - this season - 50%

 

One has to acknowledge that Hughton''s record is in the Premier League, however, he has the most expensive Norwich squad ever assembled at his disposal.  This season it has been shown that 50% of games can be written off, if that continues, in essence we have 6 games to get enough points to stay up.

 

Perhaps the only thing that has so far saved Hughton is what McNally talked about when on Radio Norfolk, that when a result is needed, Hughton gets one and that just 1 win could take us up to around mid-table. So perhaps they are hoping that we will get the win against Spurs that we need?[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]As you acknowledge, you are essentially comparing apples and pears. There are only 4/5 teams in the Premier with less expensive squads. We can lose 6 games out of the remaining 12. I agree with that. It''s not impossible - 3 home wins against bottom 10 clubs, and 3 draws.

[/quote]

 

I don''t acknowledge that I am essentially comparing apples and pears!

[/quote]I saw this as yet another anti-Hughton thread laced with dubious statistics. The key point I am making is that it is ridiculous not to take account of the division and to ignore draws. To keep this simple - and I am aware that a full analysis is considerably more complicated - these are the figures for Hughton and Lambert that I have:Hughton:All Championship:       Wins 54.4%      PPM 1.93All Premier:                  Wins 27.9%      PPM 1.09Lambert:All Championship:       Wins  50.00%   PPM 1.83All Premier:                  Wins 28.4%      PPM 1.141.There is hardly a wafer between the so-called Messiah and CH - who is considered by some to be the worst.2.It is a bit harder getting results in the Premier than in the Championship - which is hardly surprising - Apples and Pears.

[mrs miggins 0]

interesting to see how he''s doing against the messiah. I think the board are just doing what they feel is right. They know we aren''t in crisis, they''ve seen the performances and seen the table and how close it is. Sit tight i guess...its going to be a bumpy ride

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Mustard it is not an anti Hughton thread laced with dubious statistics. The only person comparing apples and pears and proposing dubious statistics is you! Why are you desperate to compare Hughton vs Lambert? Their all time records in the championship and Premiership and their management of different clubs? How does that relate to an assessment of Hughton managing Norwich City in the Premier League? - Apples and pears!

Not taking account of draws!? You obviously missed the large bit about defeat %''s then? I.E. any games NOT lost are therefore either won or drawn!

You also seemed to have missed the most relevant points I.E. Hughton''s record this season! Do you think it is good? No doubt you''ll claim that I have manipulated Hughton''s stats this season to make him look bad - win% - 23%, defeat % - 50%, goal ratio 0.73.

[fredherring 136]

"There are only 4/5 teams in the Premier with less expensive squads."Absolute rubbish.

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Mustard it is not an anti Hughton thread laced with dubious statistics. The only person comparing apples and pears and proposing dubious statistics is you! Why are you desperate to compare Hughton vs Lambert? Their all time records in the championship and Premiership and their management of different clubs? How does that relate to an assessment of Hughton managing Norwich City in the Premier League? - Apples and pears!

Not taking account of draws!? You obviously missed the large bit about defeat %''s then? I.E. any games NOT lost are therefore either won or drawn!

You also seemed to have missed the most relevant points I.E. Hughton''s record this season! Do you think it is good? No doubt you''ll claim that I have manipulated Hughton''s stats this season to make him look bad - win% - 23%, defeat % - 50%, goal ratio 0.73.[/quote]I am not desperate to compare Hughton v Lambert. "Phil and Ted" ask for it and you didn''t supply.You start a thread, "Do results still matter to the Board? What is that all about? I thought McNally answered that without equivocation: Death before Relegation!You kick off with "worst City Managers" in the first line. You then concentrate on "defeats" in what comes across to me - and I suspect others - as an anti-Hughton thread.I balanced it with CH stats compared to Lambert''s as he is considered by many to be the "best City manager." In terms of results, there is no difference between them in win percentages and points per game. As to choice of managers, I have no agenda. They come and go - on average every 2 years or so. I neither hire them nor fire them and I have no influence in the decision.

[Howson is now! 0]

Regardless of comparisons, who''s rubbish, who''s God, etc etc etc... Those stats are $hit!

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

The answer must be yes. I think they have everything crossed that all will turn out ok. They have buried their heads in the sand. They seem to have a lot of faith in this manager unfortunately; therefore we are stuck with him to the bitter end.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Are you for real? Are you saying the number of defeats are not important? How on earth are defeats anti Hughton? What, because he has had a lot of them? Have I manipulated that? NO!

Lambert managing other clubs is not relevant to Hughton managing Norwich! Lambert managed a not so great Norwich squad in the Championship. Hughton managed 2 newly relegated teams in Birmingham and Newcastle. Newcastle being extremely strong and Premiership in all but name.

The only comparison that can be made between Hughton and Lambert is that they both managed Norwich for 1 full Premier league season. Lambert''s newly promoted Norwich got 47 points, Hughton''s stronger Norwich got 44 points.

The comparison with worst Norwich managers is just that stats wise. Even some managers that the board were fairly quick to get rid of had even better stats than Hughton.

The reason I particularly highlighted this season is because it is obviously the most relevant, don''t you agree? Hughton has lost 50% of league games this season. I have not made that up. Defeats are relevant because it shows the number of games you are likely to score points from IE (for the umpteenth time!) wins and draws.

No matter whether one compares Hughton''s stats this season with the worst ever or the best ever, late 80s - 90s top flight Norwich, they are extremely poor.

It is perhaps more wise to compare with the worst because usually the outcome of such doesn''t end well.

The reason for my thread title, if it needed explaining, is that results, stats this season are so bad yet the board, for whatever reason, have resisted pulling the trigger.

Obviously you think I have an agenda and have manipulated 23% win %, 50% defeat % and 0.73 goal ratio statistics. But of course I made all this up and Hoots is doing a great job.

The board have acted in the past with poor managers but this season they haven''t, importantly not forgetting that it has been stated that they would do everything possible to stay up and McNally has recently stated that death is more preferable to relegation. Hence why one is left to question, why therefore does it appear nothing has been done about it? No change in manager or coaching, no real money spent strengthening the squad in January.

Mustard man, I''ll let you get back to those apples and pears.

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

NBS: I do not enter into what I consider could be interminable debates. Let the readers be the ''Barnaby Rudge'' on the statistics.On your point re. January squad strengthening, I am as perplexed as you are. I would have broken the club transfer fee (or the wage structure on a loan signing) for a striker as it, seemingly, makes financial sense to do so. That would be pure speculation on my part as I do not have the info required to make the judgement call.