Laughable Hughton Apologists

[T 190]

Agreed PC but then no other mgr is either.

[rowdyman 0]

I am amazed people still have faith in Hughton, there is nothing in the stats that hints he can turn things around. At Westham he got it wrong, yes we missed chances, nobody denies that but he took the momentum out of the game by taking off the two best players, if i was a westham player i would have been well pleased at the time City looked the team most likely. He is a nice fellah, got no axe to grind personally just not a prem manager imo. just to add i hope and pray we stay up in case i get tagged a binner for have different views to the so called nice guys on here.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="T"]Butler, I did not say that - I''ve definitely found a benefit from working with professional coaches but I find very little difference between them - I''ve discussed it with them and it comes down to personal preference and none of them can make me a top athlete - ultimately it''s down to the athlete not the coach otherwise clubs would spend all their money on coaches not players and Fergie would not have bought Ronaldo and Rooney. Of course the coach has an influence but there is very little difference between top professional coaches.[/quote]

I accept that you are not a top athlete at the summit of your proffesion

Our team are or should be.

What makes a good maanager is the ability to get that last bit of "something" from those in his charge.

At the level we should be at, that little something is the difference between winning and loosing.

That is what seems missing at the moment, the sparkle the oomph that will ultimately see us survive or be relegated.

If CH can suddenly find the sparkle after 2 years without it then he will in deed surprise many and confound most.[:D]

[/quote]

 

If and what''s increasingly more likely when the board replace the manager it''s no given that the next manager or the next manager or the next manager will find that sparkle either. In fact history suggest the odds are in favour of him not doing so. So our board have to play a blinder again with the replacement.

 

T often makes good sense with his views about measuring the clubs performances against the player budgets. I would say there''s little doubt that we have excelled in that over the past two seasons. That means that we have spent well and got good value for money or that the manager was produced a team better than it''s sum parts. I would say you could fit both Hughton and Lambert in that last sentence. If we could combine the talents of them both into one we''d really over achieve.

 

 

[ricardo 7,380]

Too many people expecting the next manager to be another Lambert. Experience and the law of averages tells us that this is a vain hope.The Prem will always be a struggle for NCFC.

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="T"]Agreed PC but then no other mgr is either.[/quote]Dear me, T. that comes perilously close to that smooth-talking playing with words thing of which I am sometimes accused. Of course no manager will ever get "the very best", 100 per cent, out of their squad. But you know perfectly well that is not the charge against Hughton - that he is only getting 98 or 99 per cent. The accusation, accepted even by many Hughton supporters, is that he is falling well short, by several percentage points, and that this falling-short could result in an unnecessary relegation. For no apparent reason we are on course to finish on 37 points (optimistically rounded up from 36.5) compared with 44 last season. That is what drives the serious anti-Hughton sentiment.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

Op- your not a real ran if you dare to criticise coco''s tactics etc also apparently your "not allowed to show displeasure until we''re relegated" (it will certainly be very useful then).

I''m with you tho, some of the excuses\reasoning for his "style" are quite frankly pathetic. It seems as tho some have a very very short memory and now accept what''s happening, also "we''ve not spent enough so what do some expect" just like our first season (remember when we could score almost every game) when we spent 80million didn’t we???

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

The way I look at it is whether the manager is getting us to do better than you''d expect, looking at the squad.

 

Looking back, under Lambert, he got the squad to over-perform in all 3 seasons.  If you compare our squad to Leeds when we were in L1, it was not as good but we still beat them for the title (you''ve only got to look at the fact that 3 players from that Leeds team are now regularly playing for us in the Prem, compared to none of the players from our own team that year).  And if you look back at our team from our first Prem season under Lambert, most of those players have now left and are in the Championship, yet Lambert got them to perform together to a level that gave us a comfortable mid-table position all season.  This has set fans'' expectations at an unrealistic level.

 

Having left us, Lambert has gone to a stronger squad at Villa but has not done well - Villa have under-performed, compared to what you''d expect, since he has been there, given the squad they have (e.g. Benteke was one of the top scorers in the league last season despite playing in a team close to the relegation zone).  Which shows you how difficult it is.

Hughton continued to get the squad to over-perform last year, although not as much as Lambert had the season before.  This season IMO we have been about where you''d expect us to be, given our squad relative to our competitors.  Which obviously is disappointing for us as fans, and especially given the glory years just before.

 

For me the problem remains a lack of viable managerial candidates who are likely to do better than Hughton, and plenty who are likely to do worse.  Which is why I''m still dubious about changing the manager, especially doing it in a hurry.

 

[ron obvious 1,502]

Hughtons P45.2, you are attempting a straw man argument. Nobody - not even LDC - adopts the position you are alleging they espouse.

You cannot get at Hughton, so you lash out at anyone at hand. That attitude, & your language, is that of an eight year old.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

I.C.F- that''s correct, a good manager is worth his weight in gold. By the same token a bad manager is a millstone around the teams neck.

[rowdyman 0]

Under Lambert the squad always seemed capable of pulling off results, now we go a goal down we have no confidence of coming back, we usually go on to be well beat, how many last minute winners or equalisers we had this year, as has been pointed out by many our subs never seem to make an impact, when is the last time Hughton has told himself i have set up wrong and been brave enough to change it in the first half, this is what good managers do, notleave it till the game has gone, we were pretty lucky last year we had a ten match spell, since then 10 in 47 how the hell is that over achieving with the squad we have, i dont really care who would take over anything would be better than this, Pulis is showing what a good manager can do, even if they go down now i would back palace to bounce back, if we go down and dont change, midtable at most imo.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

Ron Obvious-- OBVIOUSLY (to you) it''s bound to be "lashing out" if your an "inner" isn''t it. "You can''t get a hughton"- OBVIOUSLY that''s how it works really isn''t it?? So OBVIOUSLY you''ve read the "how to be a fan" book cover to cover. You keep applauding Hughton while he takes us down, that''s your choice, BUT if we end up going to the wall AGAIN in 5-10 years time, please remember you were clapping your way through the start of the slide.

Also as a side note I see you jump all over me for my language, but when your chum Morty does it, not a peep, OBVIOUSLY a hypocrite. Thanks

[CanaryOne 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]Too many people expecting the next manager to be another Lambert. Experience and the law of averages tells us that this is a vain hope.The Prem will always be a struggle for NCFC.[/quote]The next manager does not need to be another Lambert he needs to be a Pullis or Poyet and able get two or three wins that is clearly beyond Hughton .

[ricardo 7,380]

[quote user="CanaryOne"][quote user="ricardo"]Too many people expecting the next manager to be another Lambert. Experience and the law of averages tells us that this is a vain hope.The Prem will always be a struggle for NCFC.[/quote]The next manager does not need to be another Lambert he needs to be a Pullis or Poyet and able get two or three wins that is clearly beyond Hughton .[/quote]Let''s see where they are after 38 games before making any judgement.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Hughtons P45.2

You really are either eight, or have the emotional maturity of an eight year old, I don''t know which but the result is the same.

You are lying about my position as regards Hughton, & in fact anybody who disagrees with you about Hughton. As you grow up (if you ever do) you will learn that the world is a big & complicated place. People fail at their job (or do not perform as well as they should) for a myriad of reasons & it does not justify calling them vile & abusive names.

And as a side note I have no idea who Morty is, & he does annoy me sometimes with his gratuitous swearing - & I think you''ll find it''s always in retaliation - but he is at least a pretty rational poster & has never used some of the vile stuff issuing from yourself.

[Indy 3,296]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="T"]Butler, I did not say that - I''ve definitely found a benefit from working with professional coaches but I find very little difference between them - I''ve discussed it with them and it comes down to personal preference and none of them can make me a top athlete - ultimately it''s down to the athlete not the coach otherwise clubs would spend all their money on coaches not players and Fergie would not have bought Ronaldo and Rooney. Of course the coach has an influence but there is very little difference between top professional coaches.[/quote]

I accept that you are not a top athlete at the summit of your proffesion

Our team are or should be.

What makes a good maanager is the ability to get that last bit of "something" from those in his charge.

At the level we should be at, that little something is the difference between winning and loosing.

That is what seems missing at the moment, the sparkle the oomph that will ultimately see us survive or be relegated.

If CH can suddenly find the sparkle after 2 years without it then he will in deed surprise many and confound most.[:D]

[/quote]

 

If and what''s increasingly more likely when the board replace the manager it''s no given that the next manager or the next manager or the next manager will find that sparkle either. In fact history suggest the odds are in favour of him not doing so. So our board have to play a blinder again with the replacement.

 

T often makes good sense with his views about measuring the clubs performances against the player budgets. I would say there''s little doubt that we have excelled in that over the past two seasons. That means that we have spent well and got good value for money or that the manager was produced a team better than it''s sum parts. I would say you could fit both Hughton and Lambert in that last sentence. If we could combine the talents of them both into one we''d really over achieve.

 

 

[/quote]

In that aspect Nutty do you think Palace & Hull are over achieving?

 

As for changing something which is not working well, yep you are never going to be guarateed that any manager will be a success, this is a question that can never be answered. You either stick with Hughton or you make a change the outcome is irrelevent as the other descision would never be known.

 

The board will make this choice at the time they think its right.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

More like give him two years regardless of results, tactics and just pretend alls ok!

[Chip20 69]

I''m with posters like Nutty and Ricardo. As with many others, I may not agree with some of Hughton''s tactics and I''m as baffled and frustrated as the next man by some of the substitutions. However, I don''t agree with all the outers who blindly assume that any random manager they care to name would necessarily perform any better. I believe that changing manager is every bit as risky as retaining the existing one. It''s easy to call for a change of manager when it is not actually your responsibility, but Yes, I do believe there are scores, perhaps even hundreds of managers out there who could potentially improve our team''s fortunes. But, as has been mentioned already, the game is littered with managerial changes that have not resulted in an improvement. How many of our own managerial changes over the last, say, twenty years have resulted in sustained improvement vs the number that led to the same old story or even a decline?Say we were to sack Hughton right now and appoint a new manager who then goes on to keep us up; just. We then spend the whole of the next season battling relegation. Could any of you put your hand on your hearts and pledge that you would not continue to moan and gripe and bitch and whine every season where we are not looking likely to be comfortable as we enter the last ten games?And, regarding expectations, how many other clubs that have been promoted into the PL since its inception have shown a sustained, year-on-year  improvement? We finished mid-table in our first season back, we finished mid-table in our second season, we are struggling more this season. Does something similar not happen to every single promoted club, sooner or later? Why should we be any different? Because we are ''super Norwich'' and we''ve become Billy Big B0110cks all of a sudden (something we despise in other clubs)?If it''s as simple as ''change-the-manager'' every time the going gets tough, how come so many other clubs that have spent a year or two in the PL have got themselves relegated?

[Chip20 69]

Whoops; missed the end of that first paragraph. Can''t even recall what I was going to say!![sheepish]

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

Rons very Obvious-ly a **** "People fail at their job (or do not perform as well as they should" yes and what happens to them???

P.s it really really hurts me when you say those horrible things lol

[ricardo 7,380]

[quote user="Hughtons P45.2"]Rons very Obvious-ly a **** "People fail at their job (or do not perform as well as they should" yes and what happens to them???

P.s it really really hurts me when you say those horrible things lol[/quote]Every manager knows that they live and die by their results and I would hazard a guess that CH is more aware of that fact than you are. However it hasn''t happened yet and now looks unlikely to happen at all this season. The Board will decide when the time is right and neither you, nor I, nor any of the other keyboard warriors will be asked for their opinion.All we can do is "read the runes" and judging by some of the ill thought out comments over recent months not many have much talent for it.When his time his up he will go but it isn''t up yet.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

I find it laughable that people place all of the blame for the defeat against WHU on Chris Hughton and fail to understand that the players have to shou;der some of the blame. I have no confidence in Chris Hughton and I think his time is up, but equally I think the missed chances and mistakes played a big part in that defeat.

It really does not matter who the coach is or how top class the footballer is, once the players cross the line the coach has no influence on who is going to balloon an easy chance over the bar etc, to think otherwise is laughable......