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RuelFox

MCNALLY OUT

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I think the board should have a vote in favour of no confidence and kick him out.

We will need a new 10 year plan soon. We are probably more in line to go back to League One than stay up in the Premiership this season. 6 goals in 13 games and only 1 win I am not exactly being sensationalist here.

If we go then people like Leroy Fer will definitely be off.

How on earth does he think CH can turn this around. We have no chance whatsoever, he is too tactically inept.

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Youre reinventing the wheel here.

We had a McNally out thread on here yesterday.

The idea is just as silly today as it was yesterday.

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[quote user="dreamteam"]Youre reinventing the wheel here.

We had a McNally out thread on here yesterday.

The idea is just as silly today as it was yesterday.[/quote]And the day before.And the day before that....

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Dreamteam/Morty - the ''McNally Out'' thread yesterday was by the same poster, not sure why he or she needed to repeat themselves but there you go

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He may as well be already gone for the good he''s doing , lost his McNasty tag forever  , just another headless chicken on a Board full of them . Club deserves relegation its a Championship set up and always has been .

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Do you know what league we are in?
Do you know how much we''ve spent on transfer fees in past 2/3 years?
Do you know how much we currently spend on wages?
Do you know that the club is in the best position it''s been in since what, 1994?
Of course there have been some disappointing results and performances, results more than performances lately. And it does seem likely that Hughton isn''t the man for the job, we aren''t getting results and we don''t look like turning it around. But even if he doesn''t get sacked, why on earth should the man at the helm of our fantastic five year period for the club go?
Its so ridiculous i''m not sure why I bothered replying.

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[quote user="Alex "]Dreamteam/Morty - the ''McNally Out'' thread yesterday was by the same poster, not sure why he or she needed to repeat themselves but there you go[/quote]

it gives the perception that they are in the majority by posting lots of times

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]
Of course there have been some disappointing results and performances, results more than performances lately. And it does seem likely that Hughton isn''t the man for the job, we aren''t getting results and we don''t look like turning it around. But even if he doesn''t get sacked, why on earth should the man at the helm of our fantastic five year period for the club go?
Its so ridiculous i''m not sure why I bothered replying.
[/quote]I agree that it is ridiculous, GP, but what I do fear is that, if we do keep Hughton and if we do get relegated, Mc N will effectively have backed himself into a corner, and feel he has little choice other than to step down.It''s a bit like the situation where after a period of good years business in a company or financial institution, it goes through a lean time, often caused by blunders by senior management. The long term CEO or Chairman  then feels he has to take ultimate responsibility (the buck stops with him), and promptly resigns.I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago, but as a result may feel recently that on balance he''s better off sticking than twisting. Of course there will be those who disagree, but  , as you say, it really would not be in the best interests of this club if such an able guy should feel it necessary to go. For those in any doubt, just remember the régime of Neil Doomcaster and his cronies.

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At what point will Hughton come under pressure from the board? Up until now its been vry much keep the faith and reassurances that as long as he keeps us out of the relegation zone then things are ok. If we slip into the zone officially is this likely to change? I know McNally came out with that death over relegation quote, but in reality, seeing as the 7 year plan included a relegation, would even slipping into the zone, or even relegation himself prompt a change?  He doesnt seem to be under any real pressure. From the board or the fans in attendance. Only real official Hughton Out voices seem to be on here. Its not like there have been any protests

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]At what point will Hughton come under pressure from the board? Up until now its been vry much keep the faith and reassurances that as long as he keeps us out of the relegation zone then things are ok. If we slip into the zone officially is this likely to change? I know McNally came out with that death over relegation quote, but in reality, seeing as the 7 year plan included a relegation, would even slipping into the zone, or even relegation himself prompt a change?  He doesnt seem to be under any real pressure. From the board or the fans in attendance. Only real official Hughton Out voices seem to be on here. Its not like there have been any protests[/quote]I''d say we are now in ''squeaky bum time'' as SAF used to put it. Certainly if we drop into the bottom three after the Spurs game. You did not have to read that far between the lines in McN''s statements that falling into the bottom three was tantamount to crossing the Rubicon.You are right that, in the main people have been very patient with Hughton, but if we do occupy a relegation place for at least a couple of weeks, particularly in the month of March, the patience of the crowd, and the board may run out. It could be argued that Spurs constitutes one of those games where we do not expect to get anything (don''t agree , incidentally), but a humiliation by Lambert on Mar 2nd followed by a no-show at home to Stoke, and things may well change dramatically.

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TGMD there is a large ''Hughton out'' division.
How often do protests even happen? I don''t even remember any when everyone wanted Worthy out, and I was going to every home game.
Go on twitter during an away game when the majority of the couple hundred Norwich fans I follow are complaining, so many want Hughton out. Lots on here, Facebook. The booing during games.
It may not be the actual majority, but thats hard to calculate. The only acceptable way to do it would be ask every home fan at Carrow Road before the Spurs game. But there are more than just 25K Norwich fans. And different people have different ways of expressing their wish for Hughton to leave. Some become trolls on here, start facebook groups, tweet. Make it blatantly obvious they want him gone. But there are plenty who will tell you at the ground they want him gone, they might not even boo. But my Grandad and three of the guys he has a chat too before the game all of them want Hughton out, none of them are on here or any other social media account expressing their desire.
I hope the reason Hughton hasn''t gone is because they don''t know who to replace him with. Of course that doesn''t inspire much confidence, but for me its certainly more appealing than the idea they think he''s doing an acceptable job. 

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quote user="Reggie Strayshun"quote user="Gingerpele"
Of course there have been some disappointing results and performances, results more than performances lately. And it does seem likely that Hughton isn''t the man for the job, we aren''t getting results and we don''t look like turning it around. But even if he doesn''t get sacked, why on earth should the man at the helm of our fantastic five year period for the club go?
Its so ridiculous i''m not sure why I bothered replying.
/quoteI agree that it is ridiculous, GP, but what I do fear is that, if we do keep Hughton and if we do get relegated, Mc N will effectively have backed himself into a corner, and feel he has little choice other than to step down.It''s a bit like the situation where after a period of good years business in a company or financial institution, it goes through a lean time, often caused by blunders by senior management. The long term CEO or Chairman  then feels he has to take ultimate responsibility (the buck stops with him), and promptly resigns.I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago, but as a result may feel recently that on balance he''s better off sticking than twisting. Of course there will be those who disagree, but  , as you say, it really would not be in the best interests of this club if such an able guy should feel it necessary to go. For those in any doubt, just remember the régime of Neil Doomcaster and his cronies./quote

Pretty much agree with you Reggie, although I damn well hope McNally doesn''t feel that his position is untenable if we happen to go down. In many respects I would suggest that the board as a whole makes the decision with regard to the manager, not just DM, and so with that collective responsibility in mind, hopefully DM won''t feel like he has to ''carry the can'' because he has been heavily involved in a remarkable 5 years for NCFC and just because of an ordinary 6 months, the well of good will that he has built up should not, in my view, run dry.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]I agree that it is ridiculous, GP, but what I do fear is that, if we do keep Hughton and if we do get relegated, Mc N will effectively have backed himself into a corner, and feel he has little choice other than to step down.It''s a bit like the situation where after a period of good years business in a company or financial institution, it goes through a lean time, often caused by blunders by senior management. The long term CEO or Chairman  then feels he has to take ultimate responsibility (the buck stops with him), and promptly resigns.I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago, but as a result may feel recently that on balance he''s better off sticking than twisting. Of course there will be those who disagree, but  , as you say, it really would not be in the best interests of this club if such an able guy should feel it necessary to go. For those in any doubt, just remember the régime of Neil Doomcaster and his cronies.[/quote]This post is based on the false assumption that to keep or not keep Hughton is McNally''s decision alone. McNally, though important in the sense that he is closest to the football side of the business, is just one voice among seven in the boardroom.The only reason to sack McNally after relegation would be in the highly unlikely circumstances that most of the other directors have wanted Hughton sacked but McNally has used that closeness to the football side to argue persuasively against  change.In a funny way what happened over Gunn and Lambert - those admirable decisions - did McNally no favours in the longer run, because he was lionised as this all-powerful genius who could do no wrong. And most of the criticism of him now is from people who a) don''t understand that he was never that powerful (leaving aside whether his position may have weakened more recently) and/or b) are upset that their idol is human and fallible after all. The upside is that a more balanced view of McNally, as talented but not uniquely so, is probably emerging.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]This post is based on the false assumption that to keep or not keep Hughton is McNally''s decision alone. McNally, though important in the sense that he is closest to the football side of the business, is just one voice among seven in the boardroom.[/quote]I''m not assuming any such thing, Purple. Of course it makes sense that any such decision would be made by the whole board. I doubt Mc N would get his way if people like DS and MWJ wanted Hughton to stay, and he did not.But you are missing the point I''m making . I just think there is at least the possibility that a club employee like Mc N may feel the need to resign if we go down. Which would be a pity. I take your point about the Gunn/Lambert thing, but that''s so far in the past as to be largely irrelevant now.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

I agree that it is ridiculous, GP, but what I do fear is that, if we do keep Hughton and if we do get relegated, Mc N will effectively have backed himself into a corner, and feel he has little choice other than to step down.

It''s a bit like the situation where after a period of good years business in a company or financial institution, it goes through a lean time, often caused by blunders by senior management. The long term CEO or Chairman  then feels he has to take ultimate responsibility (the buck stops with him), and promptly resigns.

I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago, but as a result may feel recently that on balance he''s better off sticking than twisting. Of course there will be those who disagree, but  , as you say, it really would not be in the best interests of this club if such an able guy should feel it necessary to go. For those in any doubt, just remember the régime of Neil Doomcaster and his cronies.
[/quote]

This post is based on the false assumption that to keep or not keep Hughton is McNally''s decision alone. McNally, though important in the sense that he is closest to the football side of the business, is just one voice among seven in the boardroom.

The only reason to sack McNally after relegation would be in the highly unlikely circumstances that most of the other directors have wanted Hughton sacked but McNally has used that closeness to the football side to argue persuasively against  change.

In a funny way what happened over Gunn and Lambert - those admirable decisions - did McNally no favours in the longer run, because he was lionised as this all-powerful genius who could do no wrong. And most of the criticism of him now is from people who a) don''t understand that he was never that powerful (leaving aside whether his position may have weakened more recently) and/or b) are upset that their idol is human and fallible after all. The upside is that a more balanced view of McNally, as talented but not uniquely so, is probably emerging.

[/quote]

 

Not having a go or anything, but isn''t most of this just guess work?  How do we know that McNally may have had power that he now doesn''t?  Did he ever have the power that many fans believed?  Has his position weakened?  Does he have the same power he always had?  If so how much is that? 

 

How much power comes with c.£1m salary & CEO of a PL club?  What responsibility would come with such a role?

 

Is it likely that McNally''s salary would increase and in turn his position would weaken? 

 

Were those many, many fans who coined him "McNasty", mistaken and has he always played a much smaller role than many originally thought?

 

IF McNally did have a lot of say/power/responsibility, and was mainly responsible for quick, intuitive decisions and aggressive tactics etc and IF he still has that same amount of responsibility then why the apparent total change in approach?

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]This post is based on the false assumption that to keep or not keep Hughton is McNally''s decision alone. McNally, though important in the sense that he is closest to the football side of the business, is just one voice among seven in the boardroom.[/quote]I''m not assuming any such thing, Purple. Of course it makes sense that any such decision would be made by the whole board. I doubt Mc N would get his way if people like DS and MWJ wanted Hughton to stay, and he did not.But you are missing the point I''m making . I just think there is at least the possibility that a club employee like Mc N may feel the need to resign if we go down. Which would be a pity. I take your point about the Gunn/Lambert thing, but that''s so far in the past as to be largely irrelevant now.[/quote]That is exactly what you assumed, as this direct quote shows:"I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago."

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Wow how dare you o.p nobody''s allowed to criticise McNicey (apparently). The blokes a joke gives it the death before relegation but it doesn''t look that way to me.

No A.M or even a forward in January when it was obvious to every man and his dog.

What did he think (privately) after w.ham, fulhamX2, LUTON, man city (no show) seriously it''s pathetic.

Also bailed from twitter at first sign of trouble. R McNasty LOL what a joke.

Goes after 1x Micro brewer (canary promotion ale) and the lad who leaked the kit after his\marketing screw up!!

He''s as big a joke as coco if not even bigger at least he''s just a clown, yet McNicey''s a bull pooping clown.

If we go down I''ll wanna see what he calls "death before relegation" no doubt he''ll sack coco and think he''s a fans favourite even tho he''s as bloody responsible

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]This post is based on the false assumption that to keep or not keep Hughton is McNally''s decision alone. McNally, though important in the sense that he is closest to the football side of the business, is just one voice among seven in the boardroom.[/quote]I''m not assuming any such thing, Purple. Of course it makes sense that any such decision would be made by the whole board. I doubt Mc N would get his way if people like DS and MWJ wanted Hughton to stay, and he did not.But you are missing the point I''m making . I just think there is at least the possibility that a club employee like Mc N may feel the need to resign if we go down. Which would be a pity. I take your point about the Gunn/Lambert thing, but that''s so far in the past as to be largely irrelevant now.[/quote]That is exactly what you assumed, as this direct quote shows:"I''m just very concerned that privately McN knows damn well he should have replaced Hughton some time ago." [/quote]Stop being so damned pedantic, Purple. I''ve already qualified my view by saying of course I realise that Mc N would not be able to unilaterally fire Hughton. But, as the CEO, figuratively speaking, he''d actually be the one who, in public at least ,would wield the axe. And ,as has been said above, we don''t know what his private view is, but I''m just guessing (I take it I''m allowed to do that ?!) that privately he may well feel that CH''s time should have been up some time ago. Cannot prove it. Just a talking point.But all this is not the core point I''m trying to put over. I''ll repeat it once more . I just feel that it would be a pity if, for whatever reason he thought it was incumbent on him to tender his resignation. The title of this thread is "Mc Nally Out". So maybe, instead of picking pedantic hole in my choice of words , you could offer your opinion on the base of what I said.

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Out of interest what happens to his bonus IF he''s been saying to all the others that coco needs to go for months yet they''ve overruled him continuously (I don''t think that''s the case tho genuinely if he wanted him gone he''s apparently astute I''m sure he could get them all on side) but I''m curious tho

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

Stop being so damned pedantic, Purple. I''ve already qualified my view by saying of course I realise that Mc N would not be able to unilaterally fire Hughton. But, as the CEO, figuratively speaking, he''d actually be the one who, in public at least ,would wield the axe. And ,as has been said above, we don''t know what his private view is, but I''m just guessing (I take it I''m allowed to do that ?!) that privately he may well feel that CH''s time should have been up some time ago. Cannot prove it. Just a talking point.But all this is not the core point I''m trying to put over. I''ll repeat it once more . I just feel that it would be a pity if, for whatever reason he thought it was incumbent on him to tender his resignation. The title of this thread is "Mc Nally Out". So maybe, instead of picking pedantic hole in my choice of words , you could offer your opinion on the base of what I said.[/quote]Well, you qualified it AFTER I had made my point about what you were assuming was totally unqualified! And as an aside, posters seem to love my pedantry when it suits their argument and only dislike it when it doesn''t...[:P]I am happy to move on. Unlike some posters my general view on McNally has not changed from the very start. He was wildly over-praised and now is almost certainly being unfairly criticised. On balance he has been a good CEO. More plus points than minuses. I don''t want to go into specifics because that might derail the thread, but an independent stock market analyst would probably give him seven out of ten for his first four years or so.But it is important to understand that his power as an employee-CEO is limited and is not evenly spread. In terms of the day to day and even month to month running of the club he almost certainly is very powerful. I imagine he takes many workaday decisions without consulting the board.But the big-picture stuff will be another matter. Such as hiring and firing managers, the budget, ticketing policy, ground expansion. They will all be decided at board level. And it is Smith and Jones who alone decide  who sits on the board. McNally has no power over that. There was a spectacularly misfiring rant from Big Vince the other day but the dear chap did make one valid point in amongst the misconceptions and unsubstantiated speculation. Namely that Stephen Fry''s arrival was Smith and Jones way of firming up their control of the board. Which is what the owners of PLCs do. Quite normal.As to the here and now, I see no reason for McNally to resign if we get relegated, even if Hughton was his recommendation. Not even if - unlikely but possible - he has argued the other directors out of sacking Hughton. Unless such an argument has been movitated by self-interest - in other words he has been afraid of losing face. That would be a serious error. Or - another theoretical supposition - he argued the directors out of bankrolling Hughton properly in January, gambling that we would be safe. That also would be a serious error. But I have no reason to think either is true.

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I would suggest that there is far more chance of McNally , who I would say can happily take a lot of credit for the rise of NCFC , leaving on his own accord than being sacked.

 

McNally''s stock is still high. I think a lot of clubs would be pleased to pay him hansomely in their quest to get promotion.

 

I think we are far stronger with him than without.

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"why on earth should the man at the helm of our fantastic five year period for the club go?"

For the first three of those years we went forward, for the fourth year we stood still, and in the fifth year we have taken a big step backwards.

We attracted players like Fer because they thought we were on an upward trajectory. Now we are on a downwards trajectory and ambitious players want to leave the club not join.

Even if stay up this season we will have paid a heavy price and will struggle to attract players of that calibre again. Hughton has blown our opportunity to establish ourselves as a Premier League force and relegation has become inevitable, if not this season then probably next season unless the miraculous happens this season and McNally grows the balls required to change managers at the end of the season.

He should have had the balls to change manager in Mid-December.

The club have admitted that they are struggling to attract good players to the club. That is because good players have ambition and they can see that we have none.

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Have you looked at the table?

There are ten teams in our position, well not exactly our position but very similar. Teams like Stoke, Fulham, Sunderland and West Ham have had seasons like this many a time and still attract the players.

We weren''t on an upwards trajectory in the summer, we''d had a terrible six months and only just avoided relegation because of a late win, a position than consolidated by another. If we stay up we''ll easily attract players like Fer to the club. Ambition doesn''t matter to players, why has Holtby joined Fulham? It''s not because of ambition, same with Long at Hull. And countless other signings for any team in the bottom half. It''s down to money and then secondary things like location and maybe ambition. What ambition do Fulham have? To not get relegated. Same as us. Everyone apart from the Norwich fans love Hughton, so no problem there.

Why do people keep going on about McNally and/or the board not having the balls to sack Hughton? Maybe they just don''t want too. And McNally isn''t the lone decision maker as already made clear in this thread and as should already be clear to a football fan.

The club is in a fantastic position, even if we go down. We don''t have huge sponsors, we don''t have a huge fan base. We don''t have a mega rich owner. All that says is we''re essentially punching above our weight and have been run very well the last few seasons to do so both on the pitch and more importantly financially. We apparently don''t even have the stature to attract a mega rich owner, when we were playing the best football ever seen under Paul ''God'' Lambert why didn''t someone come in then? Someone like Tan or Fernandes should have seen our ambition and matched it with their money surely?

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Only reason nobody will invest in us is because the owner is not for selling , Fernandes came along to watch a game if i recall but they soon saw him off . You have to want it , we clearly do not .

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