RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 I spent over a week analysing our season so far, evaluating Hughton (I''m massively not a fan of his) and taking a look at the rest of the season....The result is a stat/fact fest (perhaps overboared, you tell me) that IMO condemns Hughton, shows why we should be worried (because, believe it or not some claim not to be at all) and counters any argument I''ve ever come across from a "happy clapper".It does take about half an hour to read it all (!) and has a few typos and mistakes... But if that doesn''t put you off: please be so kind as to give it a read and tell me what you think :-) https://www.facebook.com/notes/mathew-thorpe/were-12th-in-the-premier-league-stop-moaning/10152201619502250 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 Can anyone tell me if "bumping" is frowned upon in here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vlad666 203 Posted February 7, 2014 probably best if you copied the article to this site as some people don''t have facebook mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted February 7, 2014 Hope this helps vlad..........We''re 12th in the Premier League, stop moaning!6 February 2014 at 22:45Finally... and so begins typing it up. I dread to think how long this actually turns out. Final draft took up 6 sides of A4, a further 5 sides of planning, calculations, research and even a brainstorm haha. I understand if you feel this is "TL:DR" but if so, no need to comment so :-) Hours and hours and even no sleep went into this... I may have got a bit carried away, granted... but it was a project I felt really passionate about I guess. The title is actually deliberately misleading. It''s not my view, but it''s a comment I saw that despite being nothing compared to some of the irritating things I see, managed to ignite my anger and prompt this note. I guess I was getting sick of the same old arguments over and over, and this way I can say everything I could possibly want to say at once. It also gives a chance to thoroughly recap and analyse things.So for one thing: the comment is an incredulously blind and dismissive point of view. I don''t mean blind because it''s said by the pro-Hughton, but because it completely ignores the fact that there''s so much more to consider and talk about. The performance of the team, the manager and individual players is always valuable to consider... let alone the table. In fact, I''d go as far to say that very few things in life are as cut and dry as that. Are you seriously claiming that being currently 12th is ALL that matters?There is, unavoidably, a massive chasm of a divide between fans at the moment. Whether you feel he can be blamed for just being here and causing such a divide is up to you. The fans have even divided into 2 labels, like some kind of West End show: Happy clappers Vs The HOB. It''s not great but it does sum up what I think every fan, to one degree or another, falls in to. To be fair, they are quicker to type than "people that, despite everything, for whatever reasoning, are willing to at least give him more time" and "anyone who wants Hughton sacked asap"There is so much that we argue about and that divides opinion. Even among the same camp, people still disagree on things. That goes against the idea that we''re just jumping on a bandwagon. Some of us hobbers took way longer than others to join the "he needs to go" mindset. What too many people (sadly) forget is that these things are just opinions. There can never really be a "right" opinion in football... just widely agreed theories and conclusions. In the adult world, theories and conclusions are looked at as more credible if you can back them up using research and data. That being said, here are to name a few things that should be talked about and debated:Losing players? - Literally (as in players not taking to his style like Holt and now Wes wanting to go) and figuratively (as in players that were class are suddenly playing crap like Snoddy and Fer; not forgetting Ricky must have been worth his price tag?).Starting eleven - Does he choose the right players? Do you not think (like me) that certain players aren''t getting played enough and out of form players should have to earn their place? What about the popular opinion that his style and setup is too negative and often looks like he''s going out for a draw? Does he play about with player''s positions too much or not enough for you?Substitutes - However late does Hughton tend to leave it? Does he "have a plan B" aka know how to change a game? Sometimes he only makes one sub when needing just one goal (I remember once at least anyway)... and honestly, IMO his substitutions are often baffling.Who to blame? - Yes the players are the ones playing the game but they are instructed and coached by Hughton. One accountable man is easier to replace than a team of players that aren''t performing for the style they''re forced to play. Each to their own regarding how much blame you attach to where.Signings - Credit where it''s due: Fer, Redmond and Hooper (forget Elmander) have impressed me. The Wolf (our record signing) is looking worryingly like a potential flop. There are varied reasons as to why but I feel he (and Hooper) prefer play to feet and Wes suits that style of play. What about his latest acquisition, Gutierrez? A 30yo winger on loan, that apparently got 10 goals in 177 appearances for Newcastle (source: wiki so please correct it if wrong) and only had 2 appearances this season before coming to us... What about some of the names we''re apparently going for? Do they fill you with enthusiasm? Ambition - Before and after every game people will disagree on whether a defeat or draw is acceptable, and even what damage it really does. Where do you feel Norwich City FC should be standing/aiming for? Does the enjoyment factor weigh in at all compared to results to you?To keep my argument akin to the statistical nature of the title comment, I''ll first evaluate this season so far compared to the teams around us, as although stats don''t show the whole story (by themselves) and can be used to side an argument, they are also clear, factual data that can''t be argued with. Obviously, there are 8 teams currently below us. At first, I was only going to look at Hull and Villa above us as they are substantially nearer to us in points than 8th and 9th. However, as it''s our 3rd season, we''ve spent lots and IMO have a great squad, plus the way our club is ran (eg finances) means we should be a top-end mid table club (say 8th, max) either now or by a season or two. Plus I feel we''ve dropped a lot of points this season anyway... and plus: 4 teams to reference is slightly more balanced than just 2 :-)Of the 8 teams below us:-6 of them have scored more than us.4 of them have conceded less than us.5 of them have a better goal difference.As might be expected (but NOT a given) the 4 teams above us have scored more, let in less and have miles better GD.As I am rather fond of stats, maths, making a point and analysing: I''ll look at things a bit deeper.. I''ll look at it one way and then try and find a "flip" view to give a very broad and in-depth look into things...Goals for:The mode goals scored more than us is 22 (5/10). That''s 4 more goals than us. Only Sunderland have scored 21.The remaining 4 teams are at least 6 goals better off.The flip doesn''t make me too cheerful either: Only 2 teams have scored less than us: Palace have 4 less and Cardiff have 1.Goals against:The total average of the 4 teams to have conceded more is +4.5 (18/4) goals.But that is baring in mind Fulham accounts for 13 of that 18.The flip, to be fair, is only slightly worse: The total average of the 8 teams to have conceded less is +5.5 (44/8) goals.But that''s baring in mind the 4 above us (30) account for more than double than the 4 below us (14). Goal difference:Only 3 teams do not have a better GD but Palace does have the same.The flip is again something that you could moan about:Of the 9 teams to have a better GD only 3 are less than 10 away.In an attempt to pre-empt any silly questions: The reason these things matter and are worth comparing is you get a much clearer idea of just how well we are performing compared to our peers; who, after all, will ultimately have their say on where we finish. They are a fair reflection on our performances by the way... of course they are! You could look at Fulham''s goals conceded and put a safe bet on their defense having been rubbish so far... you could look at our goals scored and be able to assess that our striking force isn''t quite firing properly for whatever reasons. Shouldn''t need reminding that, after points, what matters is goal difference and then goals scored... worth noting it''s not least goals conceded. Not forgetting that every position higher means more money (and sounds better off the tongue)! Every season starts off with a new set of peers and a clean slate. What happened before obviously holds no relevance to the current season. However, it is relevant if you want to evaluate a team or, say, a manager. So let''s compare now to the 22 game point of last season.This season: W-6 D-5 L-11 GF-18 GA-34 GD- -17 Pts-23 Position - 12thLast season: W-6 D-8 L-8 GF-24 GA-35 GD- -10 Pts-26 Position - 12thSo while we have same amount of wins and were in the same position, we also have 3 more defeats and 6 less goals. I''m not entirely sure having conceded 1 less goal offers much of a morale boost. Interesting to note, if we swap last season''s form with this, we would be 2 places better off (and visa versa other way round). To me, everything points to the fact that we''re going backwards, or as I like to say: being dragged backwards by Hughton. To explore that idea further we can compare his 1st full season to the one before (also our 1st season in EPL).Last season: W-10 D-14 L-14 GF-41 GA-58 GD- -17 Pts-44 Position - 11thSeason B4: W-12 D-11 L-15 GF-52 GA-66 GD- -14 Pts-47 Position - 12thInterestingly again: if you swap the form to the 2 seasons, our first season in EPL would have been 14th and last season would have been 9th (NB: assuming the teams around us keep their form). Before I go on, here''s some more comparable stats between those 2 seasons (1st season up: S1, last season: S2):- In S1 out of the 18 points available V the relegated teams, we got 11; S2 we managed 9.In S1 we got 6/6 points V 3 teams; S2 it didn''t happenIn S1 we got just 3 clean sheets, S2 we got 10 (currently: 7)Our goals per game in S1 was 1.37, S2 was 1.08 (currently: 0.82)Our failed to score % in S1 was 24%, S2 was 34% (currently: 36%)Our attacking ranking in S1 was 7th, S2 it was 17th (currently: 18th)Our defensive ranking in S1 was 16th, S2 it was 13th (currently: 16th)An interesting fact: in S1 we dropped BELOW 13th only once all season, yet in S2 we got ABOVE 11th only twice.To make sure this note isn''t too long (lovl) I won''t detail how everything is doing the exact opposite of progressing... surely that''s now clear to see? I will say though: He did improve our defensive ranking by 3 places (he also decreased our attacking ranking by 10 places). He has drastically improved our clean sheet frequency (clearly served up tons of exciting goal fests). He managed to lose one less game (a whole 1... only 50% of how many less games he managed to win). We also did concede 8 less goals (yet despite this ended up with a worse goal difference). So, reading between the lines, I''d say there''s much more to moan about than there is to cheer.One straw that still pops up, clutched desperately in someone''s "debate", is that marvelous 10 game unbeaten run... well... if something that happened last season, early on (or, if you like, before all momentum and belief had been sucked out) makes up for everything else... well OK then... do you realise how close it came, at Hull, to being 9 games without a win? And that''s the form now!And now, for his WDL stats (league only) :-WINS: 16/60 (26.66%) DRAWS: 19/60 (31.66%) LOSSES: 25/60 (41.66%) OK. That''s everything thoroughly looked at in my books. There is still one huge thing you''ve probably thought I''d forgot to mention, but you''d be wrong: the season is, of course, not over yet. But hasn''t all of this made it clear to see the drastic reversal of progress? Is your faith so strong that you think we should give him the rest of the season and then replace him? It''s not been unknown for a new manager to bring a big boost for the team, if even just a "honeymoon period". At what point does it become too late to sack him?We all know our last 5 games are: "Bogey" Fulham, Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea then finally Arsenal. But also consider that our next 3 away games are against "lesser" teams (Cardiff, West Ham and Villa), while our next 3 home games are "tougher" (Newcastle, Man C and Spurs). This is purely a "cup half full or half empty" type thing:You can be happy that you have home advantage for the tougher games, or look at it as though you don''t expect anything from Man C and Spurs anyway (plus the lesser teams have the home advantage) so would rather the run of fixtures was reversed. I can''t help but feel half empty due to our form and Hughton''s lack of progress. This leaves just 5 "meh" games (Stoke, Southampton, Sunderland, Swansea [I think Mr Fixtures man had a thing for alliteration that day] then West Brom) to stand as more important must not lose games (I''d hope for maybe 11 points from 15). Even the most doom and gloom fan couldn''t seriously claim to think we''ll get 0 points from the other 33 available, but even still: take that optimistic 11 points and add it to our current total (23), that''s only 34 points... 6 away from the magic 40 (consider after 22 matches there is only 6 points between 10th and 20th though... might be one of the rarities where a team goes down with a high points total). Considering it''s hard for me to see us winning most of the time, full stop, that means I should hope to draw 6 of the other 11 games... manageable? To be fair, even still: I think that is! When McNally said in that interview that the task of staying out of bottom 3 was currently being met, it gave me the impression it was reassurance without really showing proper support. That target may currently be being met, but that is just the bottom of the ratings... it''s the minimum necessity to keep his job. Surely progress is what is really wanted? As I said earlier, I feel progress would be establishing us as a team that is comfortably in the middle of the table. As so far everything is in decline and I have seen no evidence of the necessary capability to get better, I can''t see why I should give more faith to Hughton to keep us up. As it happens, I do think we''ll survive this season even if we''re stuck with Hughton. But only because I believe our team to be good enough, and that other teams will do worse... that will just about save us. It shouldn''t be like that. I don''t think I''m being unrealistic. You may remind me that not long ago we were in League 1, but to that I say: And? Did we not win that title in one? Did we not then go up in runners up spot straight away too? Forgive me if I''m wrong but, hasn''t every team earnt (+ or -) the right to be in whatever league they''re in? Isn''t the very nature of leagues one of proving your worth? Isn''t the ultimate aim promotion, or in EPL: breaking into the top half and achieving stability/avoiding relegation battles? Shouldn''t the longer you''re in a league prove you''re doing that aim well enough and getting nearer to achieving it? Yes, teams like Fuham, West Ham, Newcastle and Sunderland are examples against that last sentence... but it could be said that for whatever reasons, they are failing to do what''s necessary to "stay good".... why shouldn''t any fan hope that we can achieve what others have failed?You never know... things may suddenly turn around and everything Hughton does might actually pay off... if by some miracle that was to happen, no point trying to goad me because, simply, I have nothing to apologise for. The same is true if we don''t get relegated. If we stay up (like I still think we will) I wouldn''t say "he kept us up", I''d say "we stayed up despite him". If there''s anything I''ve hoped you''ve absorbed from this it''s that I find Hughton''s performance, and lack of progress (that''s why I used that word so much lol), is unacceptable. I don''t hate Hughton. I''m sure he''s a nice guy (too nice? More a mate than a boss? I just don''t know). It could be argued that his style of football just doesn''t suit our club, no matter how hard he tries to force it. He might do well again somewhere else... I''d wish him well (not thank him though). I do hate the fact he''s our manager. It''s beyond me how/why people still back him, let alone why he isn''t sacked yet. While I did try and look at the statistics fairly, I can''t hide the fact I''m a hobber. But even for trying I couldn''t find much good to say. So please... if, by my definition, you are a happy clapper, please explain to me why. Seriously... please.Woohoo! Finished! Just in time for footy too.... It''s 7:33pm and in 12 minutes we begin battle with the Toon..... I hope for a win but feel a draw would be lucky given everything considered.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well this note has just got considerably EVEN longer lol! It turned out that I wasn''t able to upload it before GiffGaff clocked on to the tethering... so I figured why not review a game as a case study? Then I had a few more other ideas... and turns out I was still working on this after the Cardiff game... quite a handy pair of games to land on, seeing as it''s a top 9 opposition and then the bottom club. I''m quite glad I thought to title this note what I have... it may now be out of date, but when I started just 2 games ago: all the rage was how we were 12th and 6 points safe from bottom 3. Now we''re 15th and 2 points safe.... Kind of illustrates my point quite well haha. If you''re still reading this (thank you!), take this opportunity to get a brew and some biscuits...NB: I stop using Newcastle and Southampton (8th & 9th) as our peers as the rest is about evaluating survival, rather than evaluating Hughton. Norwich V Newcastle Our Starting 11: Ruddy Bench: Bunn Whittaker Martin Garrido Bennet Redmond Bassong Tettey Olsson Elmander Bechio Snoddy Fer Johnson Pilks Wolf Hooper Norwich Newcastle 0 FT (HT) 0 2 (1) SOnT 3 (2) 3 (3) SOffT 9 (8) 9 (3) Attempts 22 (16) 7 (2) Corners 7 (6) 45.7 (42.8) Possession 54.3 (57.2) The game: The fact Ruddy (note: not a defender) was Man Of The Match paints an accurately grim picture. Looking at the starting 11, considering how much there is usually to complain about, I was relatively happy. I don''t rate Johnson and am glad Turner wasn''t available as I don''t rate him either. Snoddy, as inferred earlier, is an auto-starter no matter how poor his form is. The sooner Howson gets back the better if you ask me. One huge problem (to me) of course, was the complete exclusion of Hoolahan... after again re-alliterating how he''s an important part of the team/plans after the Hull game, I have to admit this miffed me even more. Anyway: The 1st half was an absolute shambles and the 2nd half was only marginally better! Just like the Hull game before, it took over 40 minutes to register our 1st shot on target... at 70 minutes we still had one shot on target out of 5 attempts; compared to Newcastle''s 20. It''s not as if we can say it was our great defending that kept them out either... how many times did they hit the woodwork? We could have been 3-4 nil down by half time had we been less lucky. Then there was the penalty claim in the 2nd half... whether there was contact or not, it was close and could have easily been given. Don''t get me wrong: I appreciate they are a good team and up high and I''m happy enough with the draw... but that doesn''t take away from the facts our performance was poor, we got lucky and we made it easy for them! We did have a few brief okay spells, just too brief. I think Snoddy had another shocker (why on Earth he still takes our set pieces at the moment, I don''t know) and the Wolf was pretty weak too. When I first saw that Hughton was making a double sub I thought "my word... he''s actually trying to change things!", even if I personally would have done it with 30 minutes to go instead of 20. On closer inspection though, both changes were very like-for-like, so hardly "mixing it up" much. Swapping Pilks for Redmond was just what me and my brother had called for moments before it happened. I would have rather "forgotten-man" Becchio came on over Elmander but at least he did take Wolf off over Hoops. From the moment Redmond came on, he showed the class he has that makes him a starting 11 no brainer; getting in some nice crosses. Then there was the double sending off. Johnson should be embarrassed by that. Usually I''d say "well you shouldn''t put your head to another''s" but Remy didn''t even look like he moved his head at all... was just two players being equally testosterone-ey. So the reaction to having the opponent lose their top scorer with 10 minutes to go, is to take off Hooper and bring on Tettey? It is nice to see Tettey back (even if he got given less than 10 minutes to see what he could do) but Cabaye had already gone and they were forced to take off Ben Arfa too so why wouldn''t we go gun-ho for the win? To cover the gap left by Johnson, right? You''d think with his tendency to play players out of position, he could figure out a way to stay attacking while shuffling those on the pitch about... but that would require a gameplan. Cardiff V Norwich Our Starting 11: Ruddy Bench: Bunn Whittaker Martin Fer Bennet Redmond Bassong Pilks Olsson Wolf Bechio Snoddy Tettey Johnson Gutierrez Elmander Hooper Norwich Cardiff 1 (1) FT (HT) 2 (0) 5 (2) SOnT 6 (1) 8 (5) SOffT 9 (2) 14 (7) Attempts 27 (5) 7 (3) Corners 14 (2) 49.3 (56.3) Possession % 50.7 (44.7)The game: I never knew just how easily one game could decimate my belief in survival. If we can''t beat the bottom club, who were also bottom of the form table AND home form table... even our away form was 6 places better than theirs... they had won 1 in last 13 and 0 in 7 (6 of them were defeats!)... they were one of the few cubs to have scored less and conceded more than us.... even considering the clubs'' all time head to head we had beat them double the amount of times they had beat us... how are we going to pick up enough points for survival? The result was bad enough but to be honest, I (yet again) blame Hughton for losing us this game. Having mentioned earlier about Fer''s drop in class, it was good to see him starting on the bench. Again, no Wes at all... don''t know what to read into that but I don''t like it. Gutierrez impressed me against Hull and tbf, his starting over Pilks was to be expected. So my general feeling on our starting 11 wasn''t too bad. When we scored so quickly I couldn''t believe it! I thought I was going to be proved right to think that no matter how much they need/want the win, we should out-perform them. But our impressive dominance lasted maybe 30 minutes. As I had to listen instead of watch this game, I can only base my opinion on the commentator''s analysis; and they were saying that while we were looking good, Cardiff''s defense was looking very poor.... and yet we still couldn''t extend our lead, or later equalize! Let''s skip past just how crazy bad the 2nd half started... we all know we broke 2 players'' goal droughts within a few minutes. I feel they stayed on top for the next half an hour too (just look at Cardiff''s 1st half stats compared to the 2nd half!), until Hughton made the triple sub. Yes, a triple sub! On 75 minutes... our performance improved drastically as Fer and Redmond both shined almost immediately (the ball even ended up in the net twice, once being "only just" offside). It seemed a goal was only a matter of time away... and that''s the crux of the issue: Hughton only gave them 15 minutes to try and change the game! It''s a rather sad fact that we haven''t had one player come on to score all season. Wolf''s lack of positive input, AGAIN, is worth noting. At least Olsson is proving to be a good signing and Gutirrez impressed me again too.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So... after the Newcastle game, one happy clapper proudly pointed out how we were still 12th. Never-mind the fact the gap was now 5 points and we only weren''t 14th because Palace and West Brom failed to get the necessary results (Palace needing just a draw) the next day... personally, I''d rather we kept our fate firmly in our own hands by having good performances and getting better results. Seeing as Newcastle went on to lose 3 nil to Sunderland, and our below par attacking failed to pull this game back despite crap defending: I''d say it was the case that Cardiff made us look good like we made Newcastle look good. Interesting to notice that we were statistically inferior to both opponents.This last round of results was disastrous for us. There is now only 5 points separating 10th from 18th (and 8 from 10th-20th!). Cardiff, Stoke, Sunderland and West Ham all gained 3 points on us while WBA and Hull earnt a point; leaving just 4 of the bottom 11 also getting 0 points. Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom and Hull picked up their points against top 8 teams. Of the top 9 teams to face bottom 11 (7) only 3 got the win. Not forgetting that Cardiff effectively gained 6 points on us.... The next round of fixtures don''t look too great either. I can''t see anything other than defeat to Man City. Only 2 other clubs in the bottom 11 face top half teams: Fulham travel to an out of sorts United and Stoke, buzzing from their win, travel to Sunderland who are only 2 places higher than them in the table.Some like to say we''re "joint 12th" (as if goal difference holds no meaning at all) and another tool to try and hush our concerns is pointing out we''re one win off 10th place. This is not about whether your cup is half full or half empty. Ironically, as you happy clappers rave about it so much, this is about being realistic. Our current form is 14th best in the league and of the teams below us, only Cardiff and Fulham are also lower in the league (just how have we done against them? 1 point from 9 and a cup knock out? ok...). We''re dropping points left right and center. Add this to the fact we need as good of an advantage as possible from the next 9 games, and you''ll find we SHOULD be looking below us as opposed to above!----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Because I was curious as to if we could survive even with losing the last 5 games, I thought I''d put the effort into running a hypothetical rest of the season to see. Before I go on, I am well aware that this isn''t to be taken too seriously, after-all, it is based on 150 guessed results. But it does offer up a handy yardstick to see how on course to survival we are... and I promise I had no agenda when making predictions for the teams around us :-). The hilarious thing is, only mere hours after finishing this prediction, I found out there''s a tool on the internet that would have made it 10 times quicker and easier! Because I put so much effort into it, I want to share just how I came to the end result... feel free to skip this paragraph haha. Well, I started by predicting our next 5 games (I gave us the win against Cardiff!) based on comparing recent form and home/away form as required, plus looking at goals for/against. Then I looked at our opponents'' next 5 fixtures and predicted them on the same basis. Then their opponents'' and so on.... obviously the more I did, the quicker it became as the prediction for their match had already been determined. Once done, I totaled up the points and worked out how the league would look. When points were equal I put it to current GD. I also used our last results to make a predicted form league (when they were equal I looked at who had the least defeats and then where they stood in the table). Then I predicted the next 5 fixtures in the same process, but this time I used the toughness of their last fixtures, their predicted form and current form to make the predictions. Then I used the form table from the 5 games to go point to work out what points total they might reach (I did throw in some surprise wins and draws to the mix too). So.... here ya go:1: Man City 912: Chelsea 873: Arsenal 834: Spurs 75-------------------------------5: Man U 746: Liverpool 727: Everton 668: Southampton 569: Newcastle 5210: Swansea 4111: Hull 4012: Palace 3713: NORWICH 3614: Sunderland 3515: Villa 3416: West Ham 3417: Cardiff 34-------------------------------18: Fulham 3319: WBA 3120: Stoke 30Well... it does follow the trend of doing worse than the previous season and the position being flattering over the reality. This did give me an injection of hope... but then we lost to Cardiff. If you factor that and Stoke beating United to the mix... we''re "joint 18th" which means we would rely on having a better GD than Fulham and Stoke. This is another reason why having THE toughest end of season matters... not only are we likely to not be picking up points, but our GD might take a battering too. So let me just re-illiterate how little having more clean sheets means: like before, they don''t help our GD or goals scored total. Clean sheets are all well and good if you''re getting the goals and wins to go with it, but we''re not getting enough of those! So while some may take comfort in the fact Hughton has statistically improved our defense and would prefer a nil nil to a goal draw, not only is 3-3 more exciting but those 3 goals COULD be the difference between 17th and 18th.Assuming my predictions are anyway near accurate: I can see 2 points in the future where happy clappers will be foaming at the mouth and us hobbers will have to put up with so much drivel...At the 10 games to go point, we look about as good as we did 2 games ago (even considering the Cardiff result). Then, after beating Villa, we register our first back-to-back win of the season against Stoke, which would incidentally be our 1st maximum points under Hughton''s entire tenure.At the 5 games to go point, we sit in 10th place and are 9 points better than 18th (11 from bottom). Despite giving us 3 wins from last 10, I have us sitting up at 9th in the form league. This backs up my hypothesis that it will be only thanks to other teams doing worse that we survive. As I''m sure everyone can agree: how we compare to those around us regarding how we do against those teams not in the mix will factor into our survival... so let''s look at how many points we have (out of how many available) so far and, just for fun, add my predictions too...Fulham 0/33 (1/21) = 1 (from 54)Palace 1/33 (5/21) = 6Swansea 4/36 (3/18) = 7Cardiff 5/36 (1/18) = 6NORWICH 5/33 (0/21) = 5West Ham 6/33 (5/21) = 11Hull 7/36 (7/18) = 14Stoke 9/36 (2/18) = 11Villa 10/36 (2/18) = 12West Brom 12/39 (0/15) = 12Sunderland 14/33 (0/21) = 14Hmm.... it seems I overlooked those currently better than ours when predicting the rest of the season. Oh well, too late to change it now haha.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So now let''s look at how I thought the rest of our season pans out... as you know: I predicted we''d beat Cardiff.... I don''t want to visit that game again.Manchester City, Home Prediction: a massive defeat.I hate predicting things like this, but let''s face it: Man C are simply scary. And now, they''ve just lost to Chelsea, I feel they''re going to be even more fired up. I can always dream of an upset (or managing a draw) but frankly, I think my wishes are better spent hoping we don''t take Ip5h1t''s crown of record defeat! Before the Chelsea game, they were undefeated in 12 with 11 wins. Their goals per game was at 2.96. Their home failed to score record stretched back to 2010! Chelsea got the double on them, but their other failed to win games makes interesting reading: They lost to Cardiff, Villa and Sunderland (all in our bottom 11) and drew against Hull and Southampton (both bottom 13... and not forgetting Blackburn)..... but, need I remind you the result to this reverse fixture?West Ham, Away Prediction: a narrow defeat.The Hammers may be in the relegation zone (2 points and 3 places behind us) but they have scored 5 more and conceded 4 less (making their GD 9 better). They are also 5 places higher in the form table and their home form is slightly better than our own. Having managed that miraculous draw against Chelsea and then getting a win, I can''t help but think that they will score more than we will.Tottenham, Home Prediction: another defeat.Well... it''s Tottenham, isn''t it? They are competing for the 4th spot, currently have the 4th best form and 2nd best away form... Their previous 2 games you''d think are winnable so they could be firing on all cylinders (is that the phrase?). At this point, especially after losing to Cardiff, things could be looking very bad indeed...Aston Villa, Away Prediction: a narrow win!And what tends to happen when things are looking bad? We get a win! I have to say, given the whole Lambert thing (and Holt) and wanting revenge for the 4-1 cup defeat I went to, I can quite happily predict an away win here. However, I think they would have lost to Newcastle and Everton (and Cardiff have to win some games, how I''d love one of them to be to Villa) so things may not be so good at Villa. Also, although they sit smack bang in the middle of the form table (above us), they are bottom of the home form and we''re not doing too bad (comparatively) away (12th). This game has the potential to be a high scoring, exciting game.... I doubt it will though.Stoke, Home Prediction: a more comfortable win.Stoke have one of the toughest runs over the previous 5 fixtures. They are also in worse current form than us and went up one place (to 18th) thanks to their win against United; also they are still bottom of the away form, and again, we''re not doing too bad (comparatively) at home (11th). Despite them being above us in the league, they are still one of only 3 clubs to have conceded more than us. This should be an easier game... but then I thought that about Cardiff :-/Southampton, Away Prediction: a defeat.They''re up there doing well. Their current form is better than ours and in their previous 7 fixtures, they face just 1 top nine opponent, so I imagine that to stay the same. All of this (and my depleted faith in us) considered... I smell defeat.Sunderland, Home Prediction: we''ll steal the draw.Sunderland''s current form is very impressive (6th) and their away form is too (5th). But my predictions mean our form standing improves by 5 places (at the 10 games to go point) and their''s has dropped by 2. They are now equal on points, and despite their GD being 7 better than ours, they are the club that''s one place better off. I can''t see us winning this game, but like to think we can avoid defeat too.Swansea, Away Prediction: a goalless draw. Currently level on points, just 2 places lower in the current form table (because they''ve lost 1 more in last 6 games than us) and, according to my predictions, at the 10 game to go point they still sit just 2 points and one place ahead of us. Like us, they face 3 top 9 clubs out of the previous 9 fixtures. Even looking at our clubs'' head-to-head history things between us are amazingly close (we have won 20, as have they and there''s been 10 draws. We''ve scored 76 and they have scored 73)! I just think this will be a boring draw... but then they could be the object of my envy and enjoying life under a new manager.West Brom, Home Prediction: they''ll steal the draw.Despite them too having faced 3 top 9s, I have been pretty harsh to Brom in my predictions. They too have won once in their last 6 games, but in their last 6 away games they have won and lost one more game than us (meaning they have 4 draws). I don''t really know why I say a draw... when considering everything I have on other games, I should lean towards us getting the win.... I guess my faith has took such a knock that I find it too hard to back us winning.As you know, for the purposes of "worst case scenario", I gave us defeats in all last 5 fixtures. Only last season I believed we could cause an upset.... but now all I can bring myself to hope for is at least 1 or 2 draws.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------OK.... if there actually is anyone still reading this, again: thank you lol. I promise not too much longer now... I only have a few more things left to say...Because I compared our first season in the Premier League to our second, one happy clappy chappy decided I need to "stop wanking over Lambert". While I do miss having a good manager, I do realise he''s gone and isn''t coming back. The reason I compare the 2 seasons is because, no matter who our manager is, we are still Norwich City FC! It''s not my fault that Lambert proved just what we''re capable of. Also, some guy claimed that we can''t compare Hughton to Jose (after he oversaw their win over Man C).... because, for reasons I can''t fathom, he''s not the only one to think like that, I feel I have to address it. You can''t compare Hughton to Jose or AVB etc on win ratios (what some narrow minded people think is all that matters) as they have bigger clubs and are expected to win more. But they are still managers.... you can compare shed-loads of things, such as getting tactics right, substitutions changing games, picking the best team to start, man-management skills and handing the press to name just some! It''s like: you can''t compare a family car to a sports car for speed, but as they are both cars, you can compare them on affordability, practicality and comfort etc. I''m not saying Hughton should be as good as Jose, but it would be nice to not have what I deem to be the 20th best manager in the league!I''ve already said lots about the whole "more clean sheets" and the statistical tightening of our defense. But to tie it into the above paragraph... a good manager gets the balance right. Yes, the big teams have the means to make their defense as strong as their attack, but it is exactly that that makes a good team. I think an attack minded manager is miles better than a defensive one because I believe in the "if the opponent score 3, you need to make sure you score 4" and "a one goal lead is never enough" mentalities... not to mention it''s more exciting and likely to improve the things that matter (aka wins, goals scored and goal difference).Despite my asking, whenever challenged, not one person has yet managed to sufficiently explain why they think we need to know who to bring in to replace Hughton, in order for our wanting him sacked to be validated... why? I''m not the one in the business, whoes job it is to know who''s about and make the appointment! While some reserve the right to not make a suggestion, some of us do. I personally think Malky would be a better appointment than most people give credit for. He''s an NCFC legend with managerial experience (unlike Gunn). We don''t have Tan on our board and look at his achievements before this season... not too shabby really.Some happy clappers aren''t technically happy with Hughton, but because (I assume) their faith in our survival is so strong, or they think replacing him now would be detrimental to the club, they think we should wait until the end of the season to get rid. I already was a hobber before this project of mine, but now ... I''m EVEN MORE perplexed how anyone can still have faith in him. Before the Cardiff game, I was about 70% sure we''d stay up despite him... now I''m 70% sure we''re heading down. What damage can a new manager really do? As far as I''m concerned: there is no cons to replacing him now. The potential pros are plentiful. If we do and we still go down... it would be because of the damage Hughton has done... what has Hughton done that makes you so sure he can keep us up?As I said right at the start, I understand that whether we will stay up is a matter of opinion and so there is no "right" answer. I can understand people feeling 100% sure of our relegation far more than I can people 100% sure of our survival. Yes, the rest of the teams have to face the same opponents as we do over a season, but to really evaluate survival chances you have to look at A) how everyone else are performing against each other and B) how we are performing against others. Not only have we so far performed worse than 6 of the bottom 11, regarding our results against the top 9, but there''s also these omens to consider:We lost to Fulham, who we all seem to agree look poorer than us.We drew with Sunderland when they were doing poor and were bottom of the table.We lost to Cardiff despite their shocking run.In the reverse fixture, we only drew despite being totally dominant.We lost to 10-man Hull.In the reverse fixture, we snatched a late winner to end our 8 game run without a win.Additionally, regarding the fact we have to play the same teams, be it January or April, it does matter when you face them! Take, for example, the upcoming West Ham game. It''s a winnable game. Because our performance so far has not been up to standards, you could understand calling it a must not lose game, but also feeling a draw won''t do. Had we have been doing well, then a defeat would not be so bad. Same is true if we faced them final game: how we''ve performed before will factor in how important the game is. This is why a run of winnable games is much more favourable than hard games. The even more crucial factor, which despite being glaring, some how gets missed by the people that say our tough end run of fixtures doesn''t mean jack, is that in a relegation battle it tends to come down to the last few games... are you telling me you wouldn''t rather face Cardiff, Stoke, Swansea and Villa? Doesn''t that then put fate into your own hands even more because you have the opportunity to stop others from gaining points on you? You may point out that we could be mathematically safe with 4 games to go. But that conveniently overlooks the flip-side. If things had gone better (to be honest, with how tight it is, you''re already inferring our run of results drastically improves; plus a lot of results would have to go our way) we could be safe with 4 games to go having already faced those teams! Then the last 4 would be winnable games that determine just how high up we finish! Yet another factor that I''ve just thought of regarding why when you face a team matters: mitigating circumstances such as injuries and suspensions that affect how strong your team is at the time!Finaly, can people please stop with the "real fan" rubbish!? To cut a long rant short: if you think being a "real" fan means you get behind the manager no matter how poor things are, please at least say "good fan"... it may still be ludicrously wrong, but at least it doesn''t infer that people who care about what''s going on, raise their concerns to be known and want something to happen to try and fix things love the club less than you do!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well that''s everything! I am aware this is huge and perhaps geekily (is that a word?) heavy on facts and figures so I expect some banter on that front. I actually sincerely doubt any happy clappers will bother to read this but if you do: I don''t want your only input to be "banter".... I''ve put bucket loads of effort into this and would love for some articulate and mature happy clapper to put in even half as much effort into trying to show why they have faith in Hughton.... I can''t help but feel I''m asking for too much...To finish up, here''s a few little factoids I gathered in my research... mostly relating to our clubs'' history against our fellow 19 EPL teams this season....(Head to head''s will be "Norwich wins - losses - draws - goals for - goals against)Swansea (20-20-10-76-73) are our closest rival. Hull (13-14-8-36-39) is a close second but Palace (44-46-20-144-160) is tight over many more games.Man C (9-34-21-65-135) have a better record than United (16-35-15-62-109), despite the whole "dirty money" thing and United having "earnt their place".Chelsea (14-19-16-55-70) is the best record for us against the big clubs.In terms of victories, we only have the upper hand on 2 teams: Cardiff (26-14-9-79-60) and Sunderland (25-17-15-74-67).We are level on goals (60 each over 50 meetings) with Stoke.Fulham have beat us double what we''ve beat them. Should we score, it''ll be our 50th goal.If Villa ship 3 past us (possible) they''ll reach 100 goals (from 62 meetings).If Arsenal get 2 (likely) they''ll reach 100 goals (from 55 meetings).If Tottenham score 1 (almost certain) they''ll reach 100 goals (from 63 meetings).Sunderland, Stoke and Villa finished below us in both previous seasons.Wigan and QPR did too, but obviously they''re not our peers this season.Southampton, Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves did too if considering those we haven''t battled in both seasons.Cardiff, Hull, Palace and Reading finished below us in the previous 3 seasons ;-).Just a little something to add perspective to this whole thing... The Sun could fit 109 Earths across it''s diameter and the largest known star is 1,400 times wider than the Sun! And no matter what happens... we always have been and always will be the pride of Anglia!Sources: Match statistics: BBC and Sky. The Sun fact: a book I got for Christmas. All statistics from www.statto.com Opinions within: what I think to be common sense ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted February 7, 2014 One thing I take exception to is this insistence that people are happy-clappy. I don''t think any of those that were ardent Hughton inners earlier this season are saying that he must stay because "they have faith in him". Most of them, me included, are concerned that we haven''t picked up form as we all would have liked and are saying they are prepared to let the board decide, which is marked difference from being "happy-clappy". The reality is that he is probably here to stay until the end of the season, whatever any of us think, so imo the "in" or "out" argument is irrelevant - and maybe we should unite a bit more as fans and get a bit of positivity going to help us over the next few weeks. I admire your dedication to the study you have done, I just hope that people don''t use the "quote" facility on your article too much, it might blow up the archant enigma machine...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leedscanary 337 Posted February 7, 2014 Lapp you are a Binner! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the bristol nest 0 Posted February 7, 2014 Mate. That is a truly massive post. I will do my best to digest it. Wow.I think that I agree with it but such a point of view deserves respect anyway.I will read it again.Can you do a synopsis? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,513 Posted February 7, 2014 [quote user="the bristol nest"]Can you do a synopsis?[/quote] Hughton Out and anybody who disagrees is a "Happy Clapper"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="the bristol nest"]Can you do a synopsis?[/quote] Hughton Out and anybody who disagrees is a "Happy Clapper"...  [/quote]really nigel? That''s all you got from it? Wow..."happy clapper", "real fan", "patient", "trusting", "rational", "a fan of Hughton''s"..... Call it what you will: surely if you disagree with "Hughton out" then that is what you are?Like i say: it''s not a great term... I didn''t invent it. I think it stems from the fact that we who want him out can''t unddrstand why people are happy to keep hold of what we obviously think is a poor manager that is at the helm of a seriously underperforming City side.... I know early on it wasn''t about "faith in keeping us up"... My point is: now it''s got to the point where our form means we are in danger of relegation... How can he still be here?Incedently, my synopsis would be....A thorough look at how we are performing this season and under Hughton''s tenure. Plenty of discussion points such as what makes a good manager, where do you feel NCFC should be standing and why the order inwhich you face teams matter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,096 Posted February 7, 2014 Anyone who is a regular contributor/user of the Facebook group the Norwich City ''fan'' club will be as surprised as me that Mathew has been able to put this together. I must admit I didn''t read it all but tried, he makes some valid points to be fair; I would be happy if that is his end of season table prediction, it won''t be easy but I think a lot of teams will struggle this season. Mathew makes a point where it is the same argument going over and over and this is perhaps more the case on the Facebook group he is a part of, so credit to him for going in a different direction a little here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,513 Posted February 7, 2014 I''m more than content to be a happy clapper. I''m happy, love my life and clap on match days. That''ll do for me. Describes me to a tee! But I don''t have to wear it as a label. How would you describe yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 Is that you Jez me ol nemesis? ;-)Yeah that page is extremely tiresome.... Im not sure if your first line was insulting me or the page loland nigel..... Huh? Talk about taking it waaaay out of context lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie Borkins 1 Posted February 7, 2014 Young Matty''s my grandson and I have to say I''m right proud of him. [Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,096 Posted February 7, 2014 [quote user="RodneyTrottersFC"]Is that you Jez me ol nemesis? ;-)Yeah that page is extremely tiresome.... Im not sure if your first line was insulting me or the page loland nigel..... Huh? Talk about taking it waaaay out of context lol[/quote]More of a compliment of you to be honest, although massively insulting the page...How''s the cat? ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 Lol Bor... Love the spelling snapshot.... I cant believe my grandpa has internet in heaven and it took me this long to find the page you use! How''s Buddah? You look different to all your photos...Jez: i''m glad my dedication impresses you... I''ll take a backhanded compliment any day :-)The cat''s good ta... Aggravating as ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,096 Posted February 7, 2014 Not at all mate, maybe you should send this article to pete raven at pink un they could get it published on the website?Don''t worry about Bor, he''s the resident wind up merchant and is only on here to wind up an old poster ''blyblybabes'' who unfortunately doesn''t post on here anymore...His spelling snapshot I believe is his signature so appears on every post. Look after yourself mate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,513 Posted February 7, 2014 [quote user="RodneyTrottersFC"]Is that you Jez me ol nemesis? ;-)Yeah that page is extremely tiresome.... Im not sure if your first line was insulting me or the page loland nigel..... Huh? Talk about taking it waaaay out of context lol[/quote] I think this whole thing was ignited by you taking somebody''s opinion of us being 12th waaaay out of context. From that point on you''ve built up an opinion that may or may not exist to divide the fans even further. We''ve got enough of that on here already. Reggie Strayshun is a past master of misrepresenting others views in order to try and add credence to his own. Anyway, well done on the effort you put in. I hope you keep that enthusiasm because it''s an admiral quality. But a football manager is only as good as his last result. If he gets a break at the weekend this thread wilol be page 2 by Monday. But another defeat will keep it near the top. Don''t confuse my cynisism as a criticism it''s just I''ve been there myself and seen it before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spudgfsh 0 Posted February 7, 2014 It''s a good read, but I have a couple of questions...1) At what point does CH position become untenable? I''ve thought that defeat to Wet Sham would cost him his job or possibly a heavy defeat tomorrow...2) Did you think about comparing the types of games left for each team? Home/Away Top/Bottom etc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 You''re clearly not a member of that fb group loltrust me, as I was the one involved in that conversation, they WERE using the fact we were 12th as a means to say "you''re being a miserable moaner for no reason" ... And it irked me... Big time. So there''s no "inventing opinions" on my part.There is a massive divide in the fans... While wishing we''ll unite is all well and good... It''s simply hippy to the extreme. There is only one way that the bickering will stop. Well... 2 ways: we get relegated and he''s gone or we stay up and he''s gone...There is one thing you said thay literally made me lol and if you read my epic novel, you could guess what it is:"a football manager is only as good as his last his last result" is so far from a sensible viewpoint that it makes my top 5 silly things I''ve ever read.But... My aim isn''t to change "happy clapper''s" (please note the inverted commas) minds (each to their own and all that) but to simply counter the many distorted opinions of us hobbers that I have seen thrown at us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 7, 2014 Cheers Spud.1) one thing I agree with the "opposition" is that it seems we''re stuck with him for now.... I had hoped that he''d be gone already. 2) yep. Not home and away (after 5 games to go) but like i said, i looked at the times the bottom 11 played the top 9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,513 Posted February 8, 2014 [quote user="RodneyTrottersFC"]You''re clearly not a member of that fb group loltrust me, as I was the one involved in that conversation, they WERE using the fact we were 12th as a means to say "you''re being a miserable moaner for no reason" ... And it irked me... Big time. So there''s no "inventing opinions" on my part.There is a massive divide in the fans... While wishing we''ll unite is all well and good... It''s simply hippy to the extreme. There is only one way that the bickering will stop. Well... 2 ways: we get relegated and he''s gone or we stay up and he''s gone...There is one thing you said thay literally made me lol and if you read my epic novel, you could guess what it is:"a football manager is only as good as his last his last result" is so far from a sensible viewpoint that it makes my top 5 silly things I''ve ever read.But... My aim isn''t to change "happy clapper''s" (please note the inverted commas) minds (each to their own and all that) but to simply counter the many distorted opinions of us hobbers that I have seen thrown at us[/quote] But views do change drastically with every result. You may not like it. You may think it''s silly. But just get on here on after a good result and see the difference to what it''s like after a bad result. If you don''t believe that you could look back at last season after the 36th game and then the 38th game. I''m an old cynic. I can''t see how anyone would not agree that we''d like better results/better football. You think we could get that by sacking the manager. You could be right. For me sacking the manager isn''t the important bit. Replacing him is far more important. There are many who think anyone would be better than Hughton. But there were just as many who thought anyone would be better than Worthy. It''s a big gamble where the odds of an improvement are no more than 50/50. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 8, 2014 No of course... Had we beat cardiff, for example, i''d be a much happier canary... That''s obvious... But to say that whether you want him gone or not changes result to result is extremely fickle. I''d have to disagree on the odds ya give.... It''d be a damn poor appointment if they got someone in worse than Hughton.The Cardiff game... Did we or did we not look much more threatening after the triple sub? Did Hughton make that change with just 15 minutes left? I think any manager worth his salt would have realised things need changing a lot sooner. This has happened too many times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 8, 2014 [quote user="RodneyTrottersFC"]No of course... Had we beat cardiff, for example, i''d be a much happier canary... That''s obvious... But to say that whether you want him gone or not changes result to result is extremely fickle. I''d have to disagree on the odds ya give.... It''d be a damn poor appointment if they got someone in worse than Hughton.The Cardiff game... Did we or did we not look much more threatening after the triple sub? Did Hughton make that change with just 15 minutes left? I think any manager worth his salt would have realised things need changing a lot sooner. This has happened too many times.[/quote]I think people consider that we have more strength in depth, than we actually have.Theres two ways of looking at it, if you have started with your best 11, then is it not right that you give them the maximum time possible to win the game?I think we have a decent squad, but it has been proven that its extremely rare that we have someone sat on the bench who can come on, and truly change the game.I believe someone published a stat that pretty much reflected this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 8, 2014 Was that stat: we''ve not had a goal from a substitute all season?Nnnnnyyyyee...naaaa.... If the opposition are all over us: you have to change things asap... And ideally not like-for-like... If the opposition have got used to outperforming you for 60 minutes and all of a sudden face a different tact... It will stop the flow.There''s countless opinions on what our strongest starting 11 would be... I just happen to disagree with Hughton pretty much every game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 8, 2014 [quote user="RodneyTrottersFC"]Was that stat: we''ve not had a goal from a substitute all season?Nnnnnyyyyee...naaaa.... If the opposition are all over us: you have to change things asap... And ideally not like-for-like... If the opposition have got used to outperforming you for 60 minutes and all of a sudden face a different tact... It will stop the flow.There''s countless opinions on what our strongest starting 11 would be... I just happen to disagree with Hughton pretty much every game[/quote]Thats the rub though, its nigh on impossible to be totally objective if you are a fan.So, without wanting to patronise, if I had a football team that needed managing, I would probably choose Hughton, over you, to do it for me[;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 8, 2014 Well duh... He is a proffesional manager after all. I''m guessing you didn''t read my article? I''m not a moron, I know he knows his stuff. I just think he''s turned out crap for our club.... It''s like saying a player is rubbish (which we all do), I bet they''d kick any jumpers-for-goalposts players.as a fan or not you can still see and rate performences and voice an opinion of what should be starting 11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted February 8, 2014 I read this as far as the heading "Of the 8 teams below us:-"where you talk about goals scored for and against but you fail to mention that of the 8 teams below us all have fewer points, singularly the most important statistic, surely?And yes I know about our run in, but all teams have to play each other twice and at this stage of the seaon how many teams have played the top six both home and away?Another point to remember is that on any given match weekend if we are picking up a point or more, there are usually three or four teams around us that pick up no points at all. Hence the reason why we can be in twelfth position and still play poorly, which we often do.So your analysis needs to take into account not just our performances but the performances of the other teams around us because three teams will be relegated regardless of whether every team plays well or plays badly. It''s relative not absolute. And as I point out at the beginning they all have fewer points than us which if continued will see us stay up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivvo 257 Posted February 8, 2014 I was very disappointed with the article, it took a long time to read and there was no mention of monsters anywhere 😡 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RodneyTrottersFC 0 Posted February 8, 2014 Lovl... If you''re gonna put that much effort into debunking my analysis... It makes sense to actually read it :-)I answer every one of your points so... If you really want to know my answers you''ll have to read it I''m afraid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites