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The Great Mass Debater

Could we do a Newcastle?

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When Newcastle got relegated, they bounced straight back up, namely because they made a decision to keep hold of their players. They kept the Smiths and the Bartons and the Nolans on their massive wages, on the gamble that their time in the 2nd tier would be limited if they could keep these players. It worked spectacularly, having players like Coloccini in that division meant their bounce back up was very likely. Also it was a case of saying to the players - you got us into this mess, you get us out. The clubs fortunes and your fortunes are linked, you will not be allowed to jump ship.

 

If we went down at the end of this season, I would imagine many of our players would want to stay in the Premier League and would want to jump ship. Would we have the iron (being debt free) to say to the RvWs of this world - you stay with us and get us back up?

 

In the event we were relegated, if we could enforce that the current crop of players stayed with us, I dont think a season in the Championship would be a total disaster, as I think we''d have a good chance of coming back up, and possibly with a happier more unified team used to winning. We might end up with that momentum again. I think relegation is only a disaster when it means you have to gut the team because finanaces mean you have no choice. But Newcastle didnt do that, and relegation wasnt a disaster for them. Now that we are debt free, if the worst came to the worst, would we have the balls to do the same?

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GreatMassDebater - "When Newcastle got relegated, they bounced straight back up, namely because they made a decision to keep hold of their players." We may be able to hold on to most of our players in that situation.  But the proviso would be that Hughton stays too.  Bassong, Redmond and others came here because of Hughton.  If he were to go they would too.  If we are relegated and Hughton goes we will inevitably lose his players. A new manager, a reshaped squad, new players. It would be a complete change imo.  It would not necessarily be a change for the better.

I think we would be more likely to come straight back up again if things stayed as they are and we keep the likes of Redmond and Bassong.  Continuity has a lot to be said for it.  Now before anyone jumps on me, it would have to be a case that goals start to be scored from the start and we hit the ground running, because anything else would be too hard to take on top of relegation.  As usual it will be an unpopular and minority view, but in reality, Hughton is a top candidate for his own post in the Championship. You can mention all sorts, Lennon, McCartney - I mean McCarthy - Mackay, various others, but what CH has is an advantage - he has a strong squad of players - and like it or not - those players could do the job in the Championship.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]GreatMassDebater - "When Newcastle got relegated, they bounced straight back up, namely because they made a decision to keep hold of their players."

 

We may be able to hold on to most of our players in that situation.  But the proviso would be that Hughton stays too.  Bassong, Redmond and others came here because of Hughton.  If he were to go they would too.  If we are relegated and Hughton goes we will inevitably lose his players. A new manager, a reshaped squad, new players. It would be a complete change imo.  It would not necessarily be a change for the better.


I think we would be more likely to come straight back up again if things stayed as they are and we keep the likes of Redmond and Bassong.  Continuity has a lot to be said for it.  Now before anyone jumps on me, it would have to be a case that goals start to be scored from the start and we hit the ground running, because anything else would be too hard to take on top of relegation.  As usual it will be an unpopular and minority view, but in reality, Hughton is a top candidate for his own post in the Championship. You can mention all sorts, Lennon, McCartney - I mean McCarthy - Mackay, various others, but what CH has is an advantage - he has a strong squad of players - and like it or not - those players could do the job in the Championship.




[/quote]

 

Trust me here Lakey Coco/ Bobo/Crusty''s days are numbered here...........and if we go down 50% of the side will sod off.

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[quote user="Wiz"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]GreatMassDebater - "When Newcastle got relegated, they bounced straight back up, namely because they made a decision to keep hold of their players." We may be able to hold on to most of our players in that situation.  But the proviso would be that Hughton stays too.  Bassong, Redmond and others came here because of Hughton.  If he were to go they would too.  If we are relegated and Hughton goes we will inevitably lose his players. A new manager, a reshaped squad, new players. It would be a complete change imo.  It would not necessarily be a change for the better. I think we would be more likely to come straight back up again if things stayed as they are and we keep the likes of Redmond and Bassong.  Continuity has a lot to be said for it.  Now before anyone jumps on me, it would have to be a case that goals start to be scored from the start and we hit the ground running, because anything else would be too hard to take on top of relegation.  As usual it will be an unpopular and minority view, but in reality, Hughton is a top candidate for his own post in the Championship. You can mention all sorts, Lennon, McCartney - I mean McCarthy - Mackay, various others, but what CH has is an advantage - he has a strong squad of players - and like it or not - those players could do the job in the Championship. [/quote]

Trust me here Lakey Coco/ Bobo/Crusty''s days are numbered here...........and if we go down 50% of the side will sod off.[/quote]

Trust me here, Wiz, you''re wrong.   And his name is Hughton.

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Wes wanted to leave though, and the club has shown steel. That may or may not have been the right decision, but when it comes to relegation, Id like to see a little less player power. Id like to see the club saying, look, we''re not in a financial position that means we have to sell to balance the books. We''ll have one tough season financially, but we''re prepared to gample that it will only be one season. If we go down, you''re coming with us to get us out of the mess your performances got us in.

Footballers dont seem to care too much about relegation because they know they can throw their toys out of the pram and engineer a move so they can stay in the leaguie their performances havent kept them in, and they know the clubs cant fight back because of the finances involved.

 

Im not sure how much the Newcastle players want to leave (having managed Newcastle on Football Manager in that season - I found it was actually bloody hard to shift them because other clubs wouldnt pay the fees or wouldnt match their wages and the players wouldnt take pay cuts), it may have been as much a case of Newcastle were stuck with them. But I think when a club throws a firesale and tries to start from scratch iwht a new team, the chances of remaining in the division are high.

 

If we went down, I would like to see the board say - noone leaves, the finances arent that bad. You''re our players and we dont care where you think you should be playing. Your level of performance dictated that the Championship is where you should be playing, and Championship is where you shall play. You have a contract, and we dont care about your celebrity status, your international chances or how much of a billy big b*llocks you think you are. You want to play Premier League again, you do it with us until we choose to sell you, or the contract you signed in good faith ends

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

Wes wanted to leave though, and the club has shown steel. That may or may not have been the right decision, but when it comes to relegation, Id like to see a little less player power. Id like to see the club saying, look, we''re not in a financial position that means we have to sell to balance the books. We''ll have one tough season financially, but we''re prepared to gample that it will only be one season. If we go down, you''re coming with us to get us out of the mess your performances got us in.


Footballers dont seem to care too much about relegation because they know they can throw their toys out of the pram and engineer a move so they can stay in the leaguie their performances havent kept them in, and they know the clubs cant fight back because of the finances involved.

 

Im not sure how much the Newcastle players want to leave (having managed Newcastle on Football Manager in that season - I found it was actually bloody hard to shift them because other clubs wouldnt pay the fees or wouldnt match their wages and the players wouldnt take pay cuts), it may have been as much a case of Newcastle were stuck with them. But I think when a club throws a firesale and tries to start from scratch iwht a new team, the chances of remaining in the division are high.

 

If we went down, I would like to see the board say - noone leaves, the finances arent that bad. You''re our players and we dont care where you think you should be playing. Your level of performance dictated that the Championship is where you should be playing, and Championship is where you shall play. You have a contract, and we dont care about your celebrity status, your international chances or how much of a billy big b*llocks you think you are. You want to play Premier League again, you do it with us until we choose to sell you, or the contract you signed in good faith ends

[/quote]

 

Now, back to the real world.

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

Wes wanted to leave though, and the club has shown steel. That may or may not have been the right decision, but when it comes to relegation, Id like to see a little less player power. Id like to see the club saying, look, we''re not in a financial position that means we have to sell to balance the books. We''ll have one tough season financially, but we''re prepared to gample that it will only be one season. If we go down, you''re coming with us to get us out of the mess your performances got us in.

Footballers dont seem to care too much about relegation because they know they can throw their toys out of the pram and engineer a move so they can stay in the leaguie their performances havent kept them in, and they know the clubs cant fight back because of the finances involved.

 

Im not sure how much the Newcastle players want to leave (having managed Newcastle on Football Manager in that season - I found it was actually bloody hard to shift them because other clubs wouldnt pay the fees or wouldnt match their wages and the players wouldnt take pay cuts), it may have been as much a case of Newcastle were stuck with them. But I think when a club throws a firesale and tries to start from scratch iwht a new team, the chances of remaining in the division are high.

 

If we went down, I would like to see the board say - noone leaves, the finances arent that bad. You''re our players and we dont care where you think you should be playing. Your level of performance dictated that the Championship is where you should be playing, and Championship is where you shall play. You have a contract, and we dont care about your celebrity status, your international chances or how much of a billy big b*llocks you think you are. You want to play Premier League again, you do it with us until we choose to sell you, or the contract you signed in good faith ends

[/quote]But the contract is likely to be the problem. I assume most of our players have insisted on a relegation clause in their contract, of the general kind that Earnshaw had with us. So that if we go down and a Premier League club makes an offer of a certain level and the player wants to leave then we have no choice but to sell.

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You''d have thought though that the Newcastle players would have had similar clauses? I wonder if it was indeed their high wages that stopped them being shifted, ie they could have moved to another Premier League club but it would have meant they had to take a wage cut (which doesnt cast them in a good light, ie money more improtant than football) or it could perhaps have been a show of unity and a love of the club, like Buffon at Juventus when they were demoted, which casts players (like Joey Barton), in a very good light. I wonder which is the case.

 

Were the Newcastle squad heroes or mercenaries?  Anyone got any Geordie friends who could cast some light on this?

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Trust me here Lakey Coco/ Bobo/Crusty''s days are numbered here...........and if we go down 50% of the side will sod off.

I agree young man so long as the 3 musketeers go we may get back up with half the squad. With them here we could be in league one again in no time.

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"But the contract is likely to be the problem. I assume most of our players have insisted on a relegation clause in their contract, of the general kind that Earnshaw had with us. So that if we go down and a Premier League club makes an offer of a certain level and the player wants to leave then we have no choice but to sell."

Equally though, could we not (being a somewhat frugal club) have insisted in relegation clauses from the other side for all our players. I.e, no premiership club release clause for the first season back in the championship? To ensure the best possible chance of going straight back up. Perhaps this explains our recent failures in signing the players we want?

I''m sure not all players would like the idea of it, but equally so, we had just finished 12th and then 11th in the premiership, so perhaps the likes of Bassong, RVW and Hooper thought "there''s not that much of a chance of relegation this season, I''ll take the chance with Norwich"?

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You forgot the bit where Mike Ashley underpinned their massive wage bill by loaning the club £34m that season to cover the difference between their revenue and wage bill.

You forgot the bit where Newcastle now owe Mike Ashley £267m.

You forgot the bit where nobody wants to purchase Newcastle because if they did they would have to pay Mike Ashley his £267m back. Plus whatever he wants for his shares, which he claims is £0 but is probably not £0.

The deal to purchase Liverpool was for a total of £300m. Now Newcastle aren''t a small club, in fact they are probably a very attractive proposition, but Liverpool are one of the most famous clubs in the world.

So if your idea is for the club to borrow heavily to subsidise a Premier League wage bill with no guarantees of success (QPR aren''t top of the league with the likes of Barton and Wright-Phillips) then I''d say that it is a terrible idea. Especially as Mike Ashley''s £34m loan that season is interest free but any money that we will have to borrow will be subject to interest because we don''t have one of the countries most successful entrepreneurs as an owner.

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[quote user="MancCanary"]"But the contract is likely to be the problem. I assume most of our players have insisted on a relegation clause in their contract, of the general kind that Earnshaw had with us. So that if we go down and a Premier League club makes an offer of a certain level and the player wants to leave then we have no choice but to sell."

Equally though, could we not (being a somewhat frugal club) have insisted in relegation clauses from the other side for all our players. I.e, no premiership club release clause for the first season back in the championship? To ensure the best possible chance of going straight back up. Perhaps this explains our recent failures in signing the players we want?

I''m sure not all players would like the idea of it, but equally so, we had just finished 12th and then 11th in the premiership, so perhaps the likes of Bassong, RVW and Hooper thought "there''s not that much of a chance of relegation this season, I''ll take the chance with Norwich"?[/quote]It is possible, but the power here is with the players. They can insist much more than we can. As to whether some players were dumb enough to assume there wasn''t much chance of us going down this season...if they were that stupid I assume their agents talked them out of that stupidity! Seriously, they don''t have to act on such a clause, but I would be amazed if most of our signings of the last two or three years have not insisted on it, as a safety measure.

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Relegation this season means ripping our squad to shreds.

I''d like to think that we could keep a few quality players, perhaps Redmond, Hooper, Turner.

But we would be saying goodbye to Fer, Van Wolfswinkel, Ruddy, Pilkington (will have one year on his contract), probably Bassong, probably Howson, probably Snodgrass who I could see going to Celtic or Villa.

The most depressing bit will be Lambert sniffing around Howson, Snodgrass and Wes and us not being in the position to play hardball with them.

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If we get relegated I would think the likes of RVW Fer Bassong would leave but we would be able to keep the likes of Redmond Pilks Snodgrass Hooper.

It depends on whether Hughton stays or not. Players sign for a specific club not a specific league and a lot of players joined us because of Hughton. If Hughton stays then I think that would a factor to make players stay.

If we do go down then we would need to keep as many players as possible to endure some kind of continuity running thought the team. If we end up replacing a lot of players it will be that much tougher for us. The last thing we want to do is not bounce straight back and end up like a Bolton or worse still Middlesborough or Portsmouth.

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[quote user="Hughtons Accessories"]I didn''t realise you pick who can post Zak? Am I ok to carry on or should I just leave now?[/quote]You were an oaf yesterday and despite the new account you remain so, and the assertion you make above is as baseless and flawed as all the other cr@p you come out with. If you want to make a pr!ick of yourself who am I to stop you, anyway once I disassociate the embarrassment of sharing anything in common with you (and even your support of Norwich is tenuous imo), there''s a certain voyeuristic enjoyment watching you and your little gang of Nibiruists flap hysterically round this messageboard proclaiming that the end is nigh in ever more desperately contrived ways.

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Newcastle are one of those ''exceptions that prove the rule''. Very few clubs come bouncing straight up again. In fact these days it''s more likely clubs will get relegated twice than to be relegated and then promoted.QPR and Wigan have a phenomenal team on paper, but both are miles off the top spot. There are loads of clubs who go down and flounder for years and years.Any player who doesn''t want to be here shouldn''t be here. Never conducive for morale and won''t put in the necessary hard-work to get out of that division.

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