Damage the club if you must, but its your own doing.

[TIL 1010 4,743]

[quote user="Le Juge"]You are putting people down in the OP lakey. You are one of the worst people for not respecting the opinions of others, why not practice what you so often preach. Why should we respect your opinions if you don''t respect anybody with the opposite opinion to you? "shame on you", those were your words aimed towards people who do not agree with your viewpoint. "shame on you" are my words to somebody who operates which an unbelievable level of pure hypocrisy.[/quote]

[Y] Spot on Le Juge but they say that there are none so blind as those that cannot see.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Le Juge"]You are putting people down in the OP lakey.

You are one of the worst people for not respecting the opinions of others, why not practice what you so often preach.

Why should we respect your opinions if you don''t respect anybody with the opposite opinion to you?

"shame on you", those were your words aimed towards people who do not agree with your viewpoint.

"shame on you" are my words to somebody who operates which an unbelievable level of pure hypocrisy.[/quote]

Typical misreading of the thread.  It was about people''s attitudes not opinions.   This board is a shambles of mob rule - with its chief protagonists revelling in it.   That is where the shame is.  And you are one of the main protagonists. 

[Monty13 2,232]

um, two points LDC.

If the pressure is put on the players because of the fans dislike of the manager, then surely removing him will ease that pressure?

Secondly even if we are in a battle, it has been proven that removing a manager makes very little difference to a clubs form, so why not get rid of him and get rid of all the aforementioned negativity coming from supporters and being communicated to the players?

[Juggy 0]

"Typical misreading of the thread"

I think I read it perfectly. Blah blah blah blah, this is what LDC thinks.

Anybody who doesn''t think different is inferior and not worth the time of day.

Blub blub blub people put down my opinions, why do people think they are always right when I know that I''m the one who is right.

You put yourself on a pedestal to preach to everybody and then cry wolf when people don''t want to listen.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Well, I for one (and it does appear I am the only ''one'') happen to agree with LDC.

Aligning yourself as a group against the manager, is by definition aligning against the Club until such time as they dismiss the manager. That creates a divide. We all know that a united Club has a much better chance of success. We need to make Carrow Road a tough place for sides to come. Creating a morgue atmosphere isn''t going to help us.

We need to be more positive and try to help the players to maintain our PL status. We can then review in the summer and, for me, unless there is a big improvement for the rest of this season we need to look at a change of manager. However, at this stage I''m not convinced that a change is going to help us. Let''s not forget that our league position really isn''t all that disastrous - a couple of wins could change everything.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="lake district canary"]You outers just want him out regardless of anything at all to do with our current situation.[/quote]I want him out because he''s managed to get the team playing utter dogs**t football that is truly awful to watch, whilst destroying the self-belief and confidence that Lambert instilled our team collectively, not to mention getting us scoring far less season on season, whilst not really improving us defensively (unless you think conceding 2 less goals per season is a good offset to scoring 10 or more less in the process), and still failing to get us a result in the majority of games, and simultaneously not even attempting to get something from the majority of games where we concede first....Seriously - how many more f**king reasons do you need???[quote]But the club is in the premiership and some don''t seem to care about that at all.[/quote]I love the fact that we''re in the prem and competing against some of the best club sides in the modern game, I just don''t agree that we should be forced into watching utter $hite as part of a misguided vision that this is what''s need to maintain our place in the top flight.

[Juggy 0]

"The season is poised and we have to pull together. But some are intent on pulling the season apart. Shame on you"

That comment LDC is aimed at people who are discontent with Hughton. AKA - people with the opposite opinion to you.

"You know, all the trumped up, hysterical, over-reactive garbage on here, all the put downs and attempts at ridicule at someone who is putting an opposing view across are a waste of people''s time."

That is you moaning about people putting down those with an opposing view.

It is a clear cut case of hypocrisy to me. You put down people in your original post.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Le Juge"]You are putting people down in the OP lakey.

You are one of the worst people for not respecting the opinions of others, why not practice what you so often preach.

Why should we respect your opinions if you don''t respect anybody with the opposite opinion to you?

"shame on you", those were your words aimed towards people who do not agree with your viewpoint.

"shame on you" are my words to somebody who operates which an unbelievable level of pure hypocrisy.[/quote]

Typical misreading of the thread.  It was about people''s attitudes not opinions.   This board is a shambles of mob rule - with its chief protagonists revelling in it.   That is where the shame is.  And you are one of the main protagonists. 

[/quote]am I a main one as well LDCor just one of the lesser protagonists ?

[Juggy 0]

Presumably a "protagonist" to LDC is somebody who wants Hughton out.

Which according to the Radio Norfolk poll is over 90% of Norfolk based fans.

[KeelansGlove 0]

You are such a hypocrite Lakey, I left this board about a week ago because i''d had enough of the smug comments that you , Morty and Nutty attacked anyone that had an opposing view to you.

Debate is one thing but you lot like to smugly dismiss anything you do not agree with without actually addressing the opinion put forward.

and now this ?

you really are surpassing yourself.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]Well, I for one (and it does appear I am

the only ''one'') happen to agree with LDC.

Aligning yourself as a group against the manager, is by definition

aligning against the Club until such time as they dismiss the manager.

That creates a divide. We all know that a united Club has a much better

chance of success. We need to make Carrow Road a tough place for sides

to come. Creating a morgue atmosphere isn''t going to help us.

We need to be more positive and try to help the players to maintain our

PL status. We can then review in the summer and, for me, unless there is

a big improvement for the rest of this season we need to look at a

change of manager. However, at this stage I''m not convinced that a

change is going to help us. Let''s not forget that our league position

really isn''t all that disastrous - a couple of wins could change

everything.[/quote]

Good to hear a sensible comment on here, Beefy.  The thread is littered with egos falling over themselves to shut me up because I have singled them out, but the footballing point is valid.  Not that would make any difference to Jug ears and City Worst.

 

[Juggy 0]

Any comment which agrees with you is "sensible".

Anybody who disagrees with you is a "protagonist".

Not hard to see through is it?

[Monty13 2,232]

There are plenty of sensible comments on here, your just choosing to ignore them because you don''t agree.

I understand beefys and your point, my question remains, why is removing the manager and therefore diffusing supporter division not a viable and obvious solution?

[Mr Brownstone 0]

To be fair Monty, you can''t go changing the manager every time a section of the support calls for it, similarly you can''t go to Everton and play 4-4-2 for the same reason.

[Monty13 2,232]

I agree Mr Brownstone and I have been a disgruntled fence sitter for a fair amount of Hughtons reign, not happy with what i''m seeing but pleased enough with the results to not join the constant meltdown when we lose and fair enough to give him credit when it was deserved.

But it seems that it is now a majority of fans from the radio norfolk and pinkun polls who are unhappy and would like the manager replaced, not a section.

All i''m asking is, is that not a viable solution?

[hogesar 9,666]

LDC, you don''t get abuse for having a different opinion. Get over yourself.

You get stick because you''ve just blamed everyone that doesn''t believe Hughton is the right man, as the main culprits for Hughton not doing his job properly.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="hogesar"]LDC, you don''t get abuse for having a different opinion. Get over yourself.

You get stick because you''ve just blamed everyone that doesn''t believe Hughton is the right man, as the main culprits for Hughton not doing his job properly.[/quote]

That is just too simplistic for words and totally not what I have been saying.  

[hogesar 9,666]

I put it in words, so i disagree.

I didn''t feel the need to write a "Miss, Miss Look at Me! No ME! I mean MEEE!" essay, i thought i''d just get to the crux of what you were saying. Now, if anyone other than you disagree''s with my interpretation of what you said i''ll happily debate it - but your incredibly blinkered view of...well...everything makes discussing it with you null and void.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="hogesar"]I put it in words, so i disagree.

I didn''t feel the need to write a "Miss, Miss Look at Me! No ME! I mean MEEE!" essay, i thought i''d just get to the crux of what you were saying. Now, if anyone other than you disagree''s with my interpretation of what you said i''ll happily debate it - but your incredibly blinkered view of...well...everything makes discussing it with you null and void.

[/quote]

You are entitled to your views, as am I, I just find the witch hunt over Hughton that is going on on this board a little hard to take.   The one sidedness of the debate is just like watching a mob getting angrier and angrier - it is over the top - and if I upset a few people because I question that, or annoy them for any other reason, well that''s just tough.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I''m sorry but I just don''t accept this ''majority'' fans thing. Take another poll after we''ve just won a game and the outcome will be totally different. No one in the group of some dozen pals that I go to games with thinks the manager should be sacked right now, because the reality is that it may well cause more harm than good - there is just no time for a new manager to bring any players in and no guarantee that we can bring in a manager at this stage who will improve us. I''d rather see a more considered appointment in the summer when we have several weeks to sound out potential targets.

There''s no getting away that last night was awful, but by the same token it wasn''t really representative of the team that will be playing the rest of the PL season. Alot of other sides are in the same boat as us. Villa, Fulham, West Ham, WBA, Cardiff, Palace and Sunderland are all equally struggling and you''ll read similar stories on their message boards as on here. Has Poyet really improved Sunderland? Will Solskjaer? Apart from an early bounce, is Pulis doing enough to keep Palace up? On the other hand, an under fire Allardyce went to Cardiff and won. Changing the manager guarantees nothing at all.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I thinks it''s definitely a very strong majority now. I don''t actually know a single City fan who still has faith in him.

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]There are some people who thrive on controversy and getting empty

victories because it makes them feel good - it boosts their ego for about 5

minutes.  Then because of the bad feeling and  divisiveness that has

been engineered by them the situation carries on getting worse - the

club gets pulled apart and the bad feeling ends up affecting the

players.  

I don''t think this is fantasy, every club has its

characteristics based on its fans and history.   Fans went overboard

with Worthy - and look what happened.   Fans went overboard over Chase -

and look what happened.  I fear the same is happening again.  The club,

not living up to the expectation of fans, is becoming divided again. 

What

upsets me the most about this is that it is unnecessary.   We are -

whatever you think about Hughton -  in the middle of a battle of ten

clubs - and  to me we could go either way.     The mettle of the players

will show itself as we go through to the end of the season - and I

believe they have the mental strength to keep us up.    Its the players

that have to play and get us away from near the bottom of the table. 

Not Hughton. But all the Hughton stuff is just ruining our chances

imo.    People focusing all their energy at the destruction of Hughton''s

poisition are actually making it harder for the players, not easier.  

I

have said previously its about keeping your nerve.   I hope the board

holds its nerve and the players respond because if the egos that appear

at these times get their way it will be  to the detriment of the club,

not its improvement. 

We saw an almighty turn around in

League One.  We saw what a great club we can be when everyone pulls

together.   It doesn''t last though as some people are just waiting to

wrench  it apart again and will do at the earliest possibility.  The

season is poised  and we have to pull together.  But some are intent on

pulling the season apart.

Shame on you. 

[/quote]I pretty much entirely agree with you, LDC. We may be in the minority, but that doesn''t mean that we''re wrong.We are going through a difficult period at the moment but that doesn''t mean that replacing the manager is the key. It would be one step forward, many steps back. LDC is right - the odds are that replacing Hughton now would damage the club.We have just had two very bad away performances, but nothing to say that Hughton has lost the dressing roomThe only situation in which replacing the manager at this part of the season would be justified would be if Hughton had lost the dressing room. No evidence of that. We were awful on Tues night, but that was the cup. Lots of people saying beforehand that they didn''t care about the cup (not me, incidentally - I was bitterly disappointed because I''d love a cup run).If we get relegated, I will still hold steadfast to this opinion. It''s a lottery this season, and we just have to hold our nerves. There are 10 other clubs where things are just as nervy as they are here. Changing the manager now would throw us into freefall. Hughton is still our best chance of survival.There is only one (realistic) managerial appointment I can think of that we might have got in quarter / halfway through the season this year who would have been guaranteed of such a likelihood of keeping us up that replacing Hughton with him could have been justifiable. That man is Tony Pulis, which would have been an unpopular choice, including with me. Who else? I can''t think of anyone else who would have any more of an impact to ensure our survival than continuity would. There are particular types of managers who can change things at a club in a short period of time, but they are the Keanes, the Pulises, the di Canios and the Roeders of this world - men who shout at players a lot and get things changed that way, before things implode soon after.If McNally chose to replace Hughton with a different manager at the end of the season because he felt Hughton was not the man to change our play, make us more exciting and take us forward, then I would be for a change.I appreciate that my views might not be the most popular, but I would appreciate if you did not respond to them with cheap insults the way many of you have to LDC, who, in my opinion, has not said anything offensive or condescending - certainly compared to the vitriol which has been thrown at him.

[Bill 1,788]

"there is just no time for a new manager to bring any players in"just as there wasn''t any time for Lambert to bring in any new players - remind us what happened there

"There''s no getting away that last night was awful, but by the same token

it wasn''t really representative of the team that will be playing the

rest of the PL season".No but as with the games before it is indicative of how we ''will be playing the

rest of the PL season''. Nobody is asking for Hughton to be sacked over last night''s result. It is about all the games before. Last night merely removed any lingering doubts.Personally I would prefer no manager than Hughton, as then the players would be able to play as they know and not be crippled by these flawed and one dimensional tactics.

"Changing the manager guarantees nothing at all "

Just as retaining the manager guarantees nothing at all but does give a very good indication that things will remain as bad as they are now.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

The 3 teams that go down will we the ones that score the fewest points, just as it is every season, it''s not a lottery of any sorts. If we go down it will be because we''ve failed to get the best out of a squad talented enough to finish comfortably away from trouble. It will be because we deserve to, not because we''ve drawn the short straw.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="Monty13"]um, two points LDC.

If the pressure is put on the players because of the fans dislike of the manager, then surely removing him will ease that pressure?

Secondly even if we are in a battle, it has been proven that removing a manager makes very little difference to a clubs form, so why not get rid of him and get rid of all the aforementioned negativity coming from supporters and being communicated to the players?[/quote]Good points.If all these '' experts '' who claim that a change usually makes no difference why not spend a bit sacking him and at least lift the negativity surrounding Carrow Road ? We may well go down anyway whoever''s in charge but isn''t it worth a gamble to find out ?

[ron obvious 1,502]

I feel I have to add my two penn''orth.

LDC may be wrong, deluded, completely misguided in his views, but there can never be any doubt that he is an optimistic type with the best interests of the club - the REAL club playing in the REAL world - & wants to see the best for everyone. He is unusually polite & only resorts to (fairly innocuous) insults under extreme provocation.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of his detractors, very few come over well. Very little rational refutation, but usually an assortment of vile insults & patronising dismissal of any of his views.

So, regardless of your opinion of Hughton, it might behove some of you to look at how your comments look to others. Venting your spleen at someone who doesn''t believe the manager should be hung, drawn & quartered is childish & unedifying.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

So it appears you pretty much agree with me City1st. You accept that changing the manager guarantees nothing and, of course if things remain ''as bad'' as they are now and we finish 15th then it will be job done as far as I''m concerned.

I won''t dignify the suggestion that ''no manager'' is better than Hughton with a response.

In relation to Lambert, he succeeded, in League One, with probably one of the best squads in that league, replacing a manager with no experience past about 15 league games. Hardly a comparable situation.

Regarding this suggestion that the majority of fans want Hughton out, why have we not seen any ''Hughton Out'' chanting in the ground, a la Worthington? I can''t even remember a ''what a load of rubbish'' or ''Hughton, sort it out''. We can still see that the players are trying for him. In an earlier post someone suggested we have a squad that should be ''comfortably mid-table''. What is the evidence for that? I''ll give you Palace but who, apart from there, do we clearly have a better squad than? McNally has suggested we are still going to be around 19th in terms of our wage budget out of the 20 PL sides. On what basis should we expect to finish ''comfortably mid-table''?

I believe that there are some unrealistic expectations. Read Mick Dennis'' latest article on myfootballwriter and he will show you the finishes season by season of the likes of Fulham and Stoke. Every season is a battle, a war to get to 40pts. It is always going to be tough for us, and I''ll wager whoever eventually replaces Hughton, when the time comes, will do very well to get us up to 50pts in a season.

[Juggy 0]

Ron Obvious,

What extreme provocation was he facing when deciding to start this thread with a post which ended with the words "Shame on you", that was clearly targeted towards fellow fans. When that exact same phrase was turned back on him he didn''t like it.

Some would argue that LDC''s original post was itself provocative. It certainly provoked enough people into a response. .

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]So it appears you pretty much agree with me City1st. You accept that changing the manager guarantees nothing and, of course if things remain ''as bad'' as they are now and we finish 15th then it will be job done as far as I''m concerned.

I won''t dignify the suggestion that ''no manager'' is better than Hughton with a response.

In relation to Lambert, he succeeded, in League One, with probably one of the best squads in that league, replacing a manager with no experience past about 15 league games. Hardly a comparable situation.

Regarding this suggestion that the majority of fans want Hughton out, why have we not seen any ''Hughton Out'' chanting in the ground, a la Worthington? I can''t even remember a ''what a load of rubbish'' or ''Hughton, sort it out''. We can still see that the players are trying for him. In an earlier post someone suggested we have a squad that should be ''comfortably mid-table''. What is the evidence for that? I''ll give you Palace but who, apart from there, do we clearly have a better squad than? McNally has suggested we are still going to be around 19th in terms of our wage budget out of the 20 PL sides. On what basis should we expect to finish ''comfortably mid-table''?

I believe that there are some unrealistic expectations. Read Mick Dennis'' latest article on myfootballwriter and he will show you the finishes season by season of the likes of Fulham and Stoke. Every season is a battle, a war to get to 40pts. It is always going to be tough for us, and I''ll wager whoever eventually replaces Hughton, when the time comes, will do very well to get us up to 50pts in a season.[/quote]When you want to reply to what I actually said ..............

[Juggy 0]

Beefy Is A Legend,

I''ve just checked out Stokes record and they have finished 12th. 11th, 13th, 14th, 13th. Currently sitting in 12th.

Their lowest points total has been 42 points. We are currently averaging less than 1 point per game (relegation form). That means that we are on course for 37 points, with four horrendous fixtures in a row at the end of the season.