And so it comes to pass once again

[Jim Smith 2,608]

That the board have allowed a forthcoming home game against a cr*p team (and I don;t care if they are a few points ahead of us Hull are not very good) to become the barometer of whether or not Chris Hughton is good enough to be manager of Norwich City Football Club thus guaranteeing a tense, nervous atmosphere in a game we need to win.

I find this so infuriating. Chris Hughton has proven over a long period of time that he is a poor manager. Whether or not we beat Hull City at home on Saturday changes nothing in terms of whether Hughton is a good manager or not but you can guarantee that if we do scrape a win we will be told that it is proof that the players are still behind him and that he is the right man for the job, thus guaranteeing his presence for the rest of the season, that we will be back with another "must win" home game in 6 weeks time following some disappointing results in the interim and putting our premiership status in jeopardy.

Its not about whether we can beat poor/average teams at home or whether or not the players like Chris Hughton. Its about whether he is a good enough manager to get the best out of the group of players we have and he has already emphatically answered that question.

[Waveney Canary 0]

Best post I have read on here for along time

[Wiz 0]

Spot on Mr Jim.

[lake district canary 4,823]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]That the board have allowed a forthcoming home game against a cr*p team (and I don;t care if they are a few points ahead of us Hull are not very good) to become the barometer of whether or not Chris Hughton is good enough to be manager of Norwich City Football Club thus guaranteeing a tense, nervous atmosphere in a game we need to win.

I find this so infuriating. Chris Hughton has proven over a long period of time that he is a poor manager. Whether or not we beat Hull City at home on Saturday changes nothing in terms of whether Hughton is a good manager or not but you can guarantee that if we do scrape a win we will be told that it is proof that the players are still behind him and that he is the right man for the job, thus guaranteeing his presence for the rest of the season, that we will be back with another "must win" home game in 6 weeks time following some disappointing results in the interim and putting our premiership status in jeopardy.

Its not about whether we can beat poor/average teams at home or whether or not the players like Chris Hughton. Its about whether he is a good enough manager to get the best out of the group of players we have and he has already emphatically answered that question.[/quote]

We''re not very good either.  We have players who are too slow and players who can''t pass well enough and we have players who are inexperienced.  We have some good players, new ones who are still finding their feet, some who have seen better days, but overall we do not have as strong a squad as you think.   Hughton is doing his best in a season beset by injuries and new players acclimatising to the premiership.    

I think Hughton is here for the duration - and I am not the only one who thinks that is likely - and we will see if the team are good enough to stay in this division.    It is sometimes better imo to stick with what you''ve got and make the best of it.    It is too late this season to contemplate anything else.     If we do go down - which is possible of course, whether we get a new manager or not - we would be better placed to get a manager in the Summer appropriate to where we are going to be next season.  

Can Hughton get the best out of the players?   That is down to the players.  I see too much poor decision making when we play.  Delays, shooting instead of crossing, passing back when there are forward options, choosing the wrong pass  at the wrong time.   A lot of that is down to the players - and a lot of the players are short of confidence, probably due to the heavy defeats earlier in the season and the pressure of a very tense season.    Look at the teams around us - they are all struggling for form.  

Am I the only person that thinks this?   No.   It may be a minority view, but it is a realistic one - imo.  

[Tumbleweed 106]

We have more internationals in our team than at any point in history. We have guys that were able to score for fun. We have three or four central midfielders who look genuinely first rate and one who can offer sublime defence splitting passes. We have a guy with one of the best left foots outside the top 6. We have a strong assertive full international supposedly shoring our defence and one of the best young England talents with genuine pace, enthusiasm and ability. We have one of the best youth teams in the country snapping at their heels. I could go on. There is nothing wrong with our squad and no reason why it is not capable of surviving with some ease.

[lake district canary 4,823]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]We have more internationals in our team than at any point in history. We have guys that were able to score for fun. We have three or four central midfielders who look genuinely first rate and one who can offer sublime defence splitting passes. We have a guy with one of the best left foots outside the top 6. We have a strong assertive full international supposedly shoring our defence and one of the best young England talents with genuine pace, enthusiasm and ability. We have one of the best youth teams in the country snapping at their heels. I could go on. There is nothing wrong with our squad and no reason why it is not capable of surviving with some ease.[/quote]

All that is true.  Most other clubs are also littered with internationals.   They also have guys that used to score for fun - but aren''t finding it easy this season.  Hull to be topical - have a super midfield set up - as do most clubs in the premiership - most teams have a free kick specialist that will score from a free kick more often than not. 

We do not exist in a bubble that just consists of Norwich.  There are 19 other teams who are in the same - or better position.  That is why it is tough and why the league is so tight.

[Number 9 0]

However good or bad individual players may be, one thing is certain

They are not reaching their potential and playing at their best.

This situation ultimately is the responsibility of the coaching team & the manager.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]We have more internationals in our team than at any point in history. We have guys that were able to score for fun. We have three or four central midfielders who look genuinely first rate and one who can offer sublime defence splitting passes. We have a guy with one of the best left foots outside the top 6. We have a strong assertive full international supposedly shoring our defence and one of the best young England talents with genuine pace, enthusiasm and ability. We have one of the best youth teams in the country snapping at their heels. I could go on. There is nothing wrong with our squad and no reason why it is not capable of surviving with some ease.[/quote]

I agree and we have not been able to get them all on the field because of injuries. I look forward to the time when we can field strong teams which are more competitive internally because strong players are challenging for places and externally against the opposition

[Tumbleweed 106]

Agreed LDC, I am not suggesting we exist in a bubble. However the key to success is how each team makes the most of the resources available to it. In our mini league we do have teams with poorer squads and clubs who are busy tearing themselves apart or also struggling for form and confidence. It is frustrating that with many things going in our favour (and all teams have injuries so it is really a level playing field, at no point have we struggled to put out a side competitive on paper) we still fail to elevate ourselves above others who have greater issues.

[lake district canary 4,823]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]Agreed LDC, I am not suggesting we exist in a bubble. However the key to success is how each team makes the most of the resources available to it. In our mini league we do have teams with poorer squads and clubs who are busy tearing themselves apart or also struggling for form and confidence. It is frustrating that with many things going in our favour (and all teams have injuries so it is really a level playing field, at no point have we struggled to put out a side competitive on paper) we still fail to elevate ourselves above others who have greater issues.[/quote]

It is difficult to judge where we are in comparison to other teams.   The only true judge is in league terms - and we are all pretty much equal on that score from tenth downwards.   Also, other team''s squads  look quite good to me so  I just don''t think its as clear cut as you make out.  I think we have great potential in our squad and when fully fit we can put out a strong team.   But injuries undoubtedly have affected continuity and progress.   I''m not trying to push a pro-Hughton line here - I''m trying to be realistic - but the crunch time is in the next few weeks and we will see what the team and manager can do. 

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="lake district canary"]They also have guys that used to score for fun - but aren''t finding it easy this season.[/quote]I agree to some extent, but many of the players who did well last season are peforming just as well this year or not far from it.Rickie Lambert is on course to score maybe 2 less than last season, mitigated by the fact that Rodriguez has massively improved alongside him.Lukaku is expected to score 19-20 if he maintains he scoring rate from the first half of the seasonEven Berbatov who''s a year older and has been in a failing Fulham side is still likely to hit double figures this season - and they''ve been bloody awful!Compare this to RVW who came into our league on the back of a virtual 1 in 2 goal ratio (albeit in a poorer league), and he''s managed 1 in 11.Hooper also came in with a virtual 1 in 1.5 goal ratio (again in a poorer league) and instead this has halved to a 1 in 3 ratio.Holt''s goal ratio halved when Hughon came in, Elmander had a 1 in 5 ratio for Galatasary (1 in 2.5 the year before that as well) it''s now 0 in 17, Becchio went from a better than 1 in 2 ratio to 0 in total under Hughton, even bloody Kei Kamara dropped significantly from a 1 in 2 to 1 in 11!Every god damn striker we''ve either had or signed since Hughton arrived has dropped their form massively and struggled to find goals.If you can find me another team in this league whose forward line has failed so dramatically over the same period of time then good luck to you - because I don''t actually think it exists, but they all apparently seem to be finding it easier to score goals than our lads do, despite how good they may have been before Hughton got hold of them...

[KeelansGlove 0]

Interesting line for those who say its extreme or indeed its too late.

Cortese replaced former boss Nigel Adkins with former Argentina defender Pochettino in January 2013, when the Saints were three points clear of the relegation zone.

Pochettino guided them to safety and they are currently ninth in the top flight with 21 games played.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Number 9"]However good or bad individual players may be, one thing is certain They are not reaching their potential and playing at their best. This situation ultimately is the responsibility of the coaching team & the manager.[/quote]

 

but what if they are?

What if this is as good as it gets for us for the next couple of seasons REGARDLESS of who the manager is?

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tumbleweed"]Agreed LDC, I am not suggesting we exist in a bubble. However the key to success is how each team makes the most of the resources available to it. In our mini league we do have teams with poorer squads and clubs who are busy tearing themselves apart or also struggling for form and confidence. It is frustrating that with many things going in our favour (and all teams have injuries so it is really a level playing field, at no point have we struggled to put out a side competitive on paper) we still fail to elevate ourselves above others who have greater issues.[/quote]

It is difficult to judge where we are in comparison to other teams.   The only true judge is in league terms - and we are all pretty much equal on that score from tenth downwards.   Also, other team''s squads  look quite good to me so  I just don''t think its as clear cut as you make out.  I think we have great potential in our squad and when fully fit we can put out a strong team.   But injuries undoubtedly have affected continuity and progress.   I''m not trying to push a pro-Hughton line here - I''m trying to be realistic - but the crunch time is in the next few weeks and we will see what the team and manager can do. 

[/quote]

Hughton has proved he is not good enough. How many more defeats will there need to be for you to see this? The rest of the teams I''m and around us have all had at least when result where by they have upset the odds and played out of there skin. We''ve not. We read the script and roll over. All our wins have been very close and not one has been comfortable. Yet most of our defeats have been comprehensive.

Why do you thrive on being part of the minority? There is no way you believe half the stuff you write. It''s merely to satisfy your passion to be the underdog. Hence your profile pic.

[lake district canary 4,823]

[quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tumbleweed"]Agreed LDC, I am not suggesting we exist in a bubble. However the key to success is how each team makes the most of the resources available to it. In our mini league we do have teams with poorer squads and clubs who are busy tearing themselves apart or also struggling for form and confidence. It is frustrating that with many things going in our favour (and all teams have injuries so it is really a level playing field, at no point have we struggled to put out a side competitive on paper) we still fail to elevate ourselves above others who have greater issues.[/quote]It is difficult to judge where we are in comparison to other teams.   The only true judge is in league terms - and we are all pretty much equal on that score from tenth downwards.   Also, other team''s squads  look quite good to me so  I just don''t think its as clear cut as you make out.  I think we have great potential in our squad and when fully fit we can put out a strong team.   But injuries undoubtedly have affected continuity and progress.   I''m not trying to push a pro-Hughton line here - I''m trying to be realistic - but the crunch time is in the next few weeks and we will see what the team and manager can do.  [/quote]

Hughton has proved he is not good enough. How many more defeats will there need to be for you to see this? The rest of the teams I''m and around us have all had at least when result where by they have upset the odds and played out of there skin. We''ve not. We read the script and roll over. All our wins have been very close and not one has been comfortable. Yet most of our defeats have been comprehensive.

Why do you thrive on being part of the minority? There is no way you believe half the stuff you write. It''s merely to satisfy your passion to be the underdog. Hence your profile pic.[/quote]

I''m tired of trying to defend my opinions.   They are opinions.   Why can''t people just accept that?    My opinion is different to yours.   My opinion is that there are fans out there who are not taking any kind of rational view about the situation.

I don''t know if Hughton will turn things round once players are back fit - I hope he will.   I don''t know if a new manager brought in would do any better. Its all guesswork.    I also don''t know what the club will do about the manager situation, but the fact they haven''t sacked the manager up to now indicates they are unlikely to do that now,  until  at least the end of the season.   That is a realistic view.

As for me believing what I write, do you really think I would put so much effort into writing stuff I don''t believe?   I may be in the minority, but I am in no way on my own. 

Frankly, you can think and write what you like - as can I.  

[Indy_Bones 444]

But you can''t really answer the point I made though can you LDC?Why has every single one of our strikers suffered horribly in their quest for goals under Hughton when they were performing before coming under his management?Other clubs aren''t showing such a shocking decline across the board, so why is it happening here???

[Chip20 69]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]Interesting line for those who say its extreme or indeed its too late.

Cortese replaced former boss Nigel Adkins with former Argentina defender Pochettino in January 2013, when the Saints were three points clear of the relegation zone.

Pochettino guided them to safety and they are currently ninth in the top flight with 21 games played.[/quote]Does that happen every time, then? You could offer a cast iron guarantee that replacing Hughton (who successfully kept us up last season despite similar bleatings about performances and results) would result in a similar rise up the league table? Or is it just a blind assumption that anything has got to be better than what we already have?I''m not having a go, btw. I could not certainly not offer a cast iron guarantee that keeping Hughton would keep us up. I''m just as guilty of ''hoping'' that Hughton can turn things around as outers are of hoping any given replacement would. As I''ve stated on a number of other threads, though, I''m continually mindful of the number of times a change of manager has failed to improve things for us vs the number of times it has worked out. In my time supporting the club, the stats have leaned heavily towards the former.

[Canary On The Wire 0]

Indy_Bones:

I''ll answer it for him - the setup is wrong, the approach is wrong, and he''s bought two off the shoulder poachers who make darting runs in the box, not bought anyone to link the play through the middle save for when Fer carries the ball through and we get caught on the break, so they get no through balls, we don''t create overloads on both flanks because Whittaker isn''t fast enough, and Redmond lacks the nous to find the right reverse pass to Olsson when he plays for it, so the strikers get no through balls, no cut backs, just balls into the channels that any half decent defender can track across and put out for a throw.  £13m of striking talent and they''re square pegs in round holes. Terrible from CH.

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]Interesting line for those who say its extreme or indeed its too late.

Cortese replaced former boss Nigel Adkins with former Argentina defender Pochettino in January 2013, when the Saints were three points clear of the relegation zone.

Pochettino guided them to safety and they are currently ninth in the top flight with 21 games played.[/quote]By gaining exactly the same number of wins and points in his 16 games as Adkins had in his last 16 games.So what are you trying to prove?

[lharman7 39]

We do not exist in a bubble that just consists of Norwich.

I reckon most Norwich City FC supporters would disagree with you there!

[Tumbleweed 106]

Indy - it is not just the strikers either IMO. Although they are the easiest to provide evidence for, in the number and ratio of goals, I think the others are performing less well also. John Ruddy for instance looks a shadow of the commanding and reliable figure he once was. Russell Martin? Bradley Johnson now looks like a hapless plodder and although has never been worldclass at least looked like a credible midfield enforcer. It is difficult to put ones finger on it, these are my impressions.

To answer jas though, incidentally I think a very valid question, the only thing I can say at least initially is that we seemed able to perform better and give teams more worries with the championship winning squad than the team we have now. But I don''t think any of us had any doubts that the new additions were not improvements. Thus why many feel that we can be performing much better and getting more results (including sneaking the odd surprise draw away here or there which could be very important in May)

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="lake district canary"]  We have some good players, new ones who are still finding their feet, some who have seen better days, but overall we do not have as strong a squad as you think.     


  



[/quote]

So after 21 games we have new players still finding their feet and some who have seen better days hey Lakey. I have to disagree with that unless of course you care to identify such players ?

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]But you can''t really answer the point I made though can you LDC?Why has every single one of our strikers suffered horribly in their quest for goals under Hughton when they were performing before coming under his management?Other clubs aren''t showing such a shocking decline across the board, so why is it happening here???[/quote]

That puts into a nutshell what is wrong with Hoot''s style of management. His whole ethos is to try to avoid defeat at all costs, and worry all the time about how the opposition can hurt us with their "quality", paying little regard to how we can hurt them with our own offensive players. Becchio, Hooper, Holt and RVW were all scoring for fun until they fell into Hughton''s clutches - I wonder why??

[lake district canary 4,823]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]  We have some good players, new ones who are still finding their feet, some who have seen better days, but overall we do not have as strong a squad as you think.     [/quote]

So after 21 games we have new players still finding their feet and some who have seen better days hey Lakey. I have to disagree with that unless of course you care to identify such players ?

[/quote]

New ones - Hooper - injured  RVW fit, then Hooper fit - RVW injured.  Still not had full time to get settled to the team either individually or together.

Seen better days?  Fox and Hoolahan.  Still capable, but not first team starter material every week.  Fer didn''t have a pre-season with us - and his promising partnership with Howson has been disrupted, not to mention Tettey''s abscence.   Apart from that other injuries have made our squad look quite thin.  Imo.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Lakey I would say Hughton has purchased the bullets the problem is he does not know how to load the gun.

[......and Smith must score. 1,594]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]But you can''t really answer the point I made though can you LDC?Why has every single one of our strikers suffered horribly in their quest for goals under Hughton when they were performing before coming under his management?Other clubs aren''t showing such a shocking decline across the board, so why is it happening here???[/quote]We all know the answer to that one Indy, even LDC does deep down.Unfortunately I think you''re in for a long wait if you''re expecting a response from him though.....