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yellowdamien

How many posters...

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... have sat on the board of directors at a Premier League football club? Or successfully managed a Premier League team? Or even have the UEFA Pro Licence required to do so?

I''m going to make a guesstimate and say none whatsoever.

Which leads me to the question: why are certain posters so adamant that they know exactly what is wrong, what the causes are, and how to fix it instantly?

Like every single fan of any football club I have my opinions and I do get frustrated (Palace and Fulham away have been personal low points this season), but I also know that I am not in possession of all of the facts or of certain influential people''s opinions.

Maybe I''m being an idealist but I would love more of this board to recognise this and instead of resorting to mindless vitriol and overblown rhetoric to just get behind the lads. Yes, we may not be happy with the standard of football or recent results but we''re supporters so let''s support. We''d be fools to think that this undercurrent of bitterness doen''t affect the team in a negative way, so let''s do our part properly.

(I know I''m about to get shot down in flames on this, but it needs saying).

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No, but our board has got it wrong at least twice before, and so they do have a history of make major mistakes over big decisions. I give you Bryan Gunn, Roeder, Peter Grant and the long drawn out saga over the sacking of Nigel Worthy - most fans would have been all for waving bye bye to Worthy sooner.

I groaned out loud as soon as I heard Peter Grant had been appointed, I wasn''t sure about Roeder initially, although I had my doubts as to whether he would be ok. Equally, I had my doubts straight away as to the appointment of Gunny. So as I say, our board do seem to lack a certain amount of nous at times, bless them.

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[quote user="Truculent Trucker"]No, but our board has got it wrong at least twice before, and so they do have a history of make major mistakes over big decisions. I give you Bryan Gunn, Roeder, Peter Grant and the long drawn out saga over the sacking of Nigel Worthy - most fans would have been all for waving bye bye to Worthy sooner.

I groaned out loud as soon as I heard Peter Grant had been appointed, I wasn''t sure about Roeder initially, although I had my doubts as to whether he would be ok. Equally, I had my doubts straight away as to the appointment of Gunny. So as I say, our board do seem to lack a certain amount of nous at times, bless them.[/quote]Are all the current board members the same ones who made those decisions?Did Delia and Michael not come out and admit that they had got it wrong, and about that point they employed McNally?

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Truculent Trucker"]No, but our board has got it wrong at least twice before, and so they do have a history of make major mistakes over big decisions. I give you Bryan Gunn, Roeder, Peter Grant and the long drawn out saga over the sacking of Nigel Worthy - most fans would have been all for waving bye bye to Worthy sooner.

I groaned out loud as soon as I heard Peter Grant had been appointed, I wasn''t sure about Roeder initially, although I had my doubts as to whether he would be ok. Equally, I had my doubts straight away as to the appointment of Gunny. So as I say, our board do seem to lack a certain amount of nous at times, bless them.[/quote]Are all the current board members the same ones who made those decisions?Did Delia and Michael not come out and admit that they had got it wrong, and about that point they employed McNally?[/quote]No way Morty. A woman admitting she''s wrong ? [:D]

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="Truculent Trucker"]No, but our board has got it wrong at least twice before, and so they do have a history of make major mistakes over big decisions. I give you Bryan Gunn, Roeder, Peter Grant and the long drawn out saga over the sacking of Nigel Worthy - most fans would have been all for waving bye bye to Worthy sooner.

I groaned out loud as soon as I heard Peter Grant had been appointed, I wasn''t sure about Roeder initially, although I had my doubts as to whether he would be ok. Equally, I had my doubts straight away as to the appointment of Gunny. So as I say, our board do seem to lack a certain amount of nous at times, bless them.[/quote]Are all the current board members the same ones who made those decisions?Did Delia and Michael not come out and admit that they had got it wrong, and about that point they employed McNally?[/quote]No way Morty. A woman admitting she''s wrong ? [:D][/quote][:D]

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It''s a bit like politics.  We can all sit back and say "they ought to do this" but if we actually had to deal with the nitty gritty of running the show, we''d straightaway understand it''s not so easy.

 

But from the outside sometimes decisions look appalling from day 1.   I remember cringing when I heard that Mike Walker was one of the lowest paid (was it the lowest?) Prem managers when he had taken us to 3rd place the season before.  You didn''t need to be Einstein to work out he''d be poached by a bigger club before long.  And when we put Deehan in charge after he left, again it looked like a decision to do things on the cheap which didn''t bode well.  I felt exactly the same about Gunn - no managerial experience so no surprise when it turned out badly.

 

So it''s not just our current owners that have had this problem.  And you can''t knock the decisions to appoint Lambert, nor the decision to appoint Hughton.  I know that many on here would like Hughton to have been got rid of last season but the fact is he had PL experience and was a good candidate who has delivered two mid-table finishes in the Prem, so you can''t say the board were foolish to appoint him initially, unlike Deehan, Gunn etc.  Those who think Hughton has been disastrous will obviously say the board should have decided to get rid of him a long time ago but that''s a different debate.

 

I''d feel the same way if the club got rid of Hughton and brought in someone like Malky, Clarke or Jol, in fact all the usual suspects from within the English game - underwhelmed and very dubious it was a good move.

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What exactly do Stephen Fry and Stefan Philips bring to the table with regards to having experience at running a Premiership Club ? Fry was brought on bought because of his Twitter followers and Philips because at the time he worked for Archant so in answer to the OP it look likes no previous experience is necessary.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]What exactly do Stephen Fry and Stefan Philips bring to the table with regards to having experience at running a Premiership Club ? Fry was brought on bought because of his Twitter followers and Philips because at the time he worked for Archant so in answer to the OP it look likes no previous experience is necessary.[/quote]That was the public justification for Fry''s arrival but I would be very surprised if it was the main reason. It looked very much like Smith and Jones making it plain to anyone who might have thought or hoped otherwise who ultimately had control of the club.

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How many UEFA Pro Licence holders currently managing a football team could learn something to improve the team by listening to the collective knowledge of fans who have followed the team for years and in all likelihood are far more acquainted with the strengths weaknesses and foibles of each and every player?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]What exactly do Stephen Fry and Stefan Philips bring to the table with regards to having experience at running a Premiership Club ? Fry was brought on bought because of his Twitter followers and Philips because at the time he worked for Archant so in answer to the OP it look likes no previous experience is necessary.[/quote]

So a board of directors in charge of a company that has no clue about  the main business of that company?   Doesn''t sound good, does it, but seems to happen alot.   However, in our case  DS and MWJ have stayed the course, shown real devotion to the cause, both in finances and commitment, leaned from mistakes and appointed a CEO with some clout and some knowledge - so experience counts for a lot.    How many fans know more about football than some of the board?   Probably quite a few, how many would be good given the responsibilty of actually running a football club of any kind, is probably very very few, if any.  A premiership club is a multi-million pound business - and on that front you can''t knock the success we are now achieving.    We are currently 3 points off equivalent tenth place with a developing team and with good financial structure.   I know some of you will say we are three points off bottom and the team isn''t developing, but that is the nature of football. For some the glass is half full, for others its half empty. It would seem to make sense to have a footballer on the board - but then the manager answers to the board.  A director of football who sits on the board would be a solution to, but then you can get clashes between a manager and a director of football.  No easy answers. 

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[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"]Didn''t the fans want Gunn to be appointed? I''m sure I remember it that way....?
[/quote]

 

Perhaps of "the fans", some were in favour, some were dubious, and some weren''t sure ?

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[quote user="yellowdamien"]... have sat on the board of directors at a Premier League football club? Or successfully managed a Premier League team? Or even have the UEFA Pro Licence required to do so?

I''m going to make a guesstimate and say none whatsoever.

Which leads me to the question: why are certain posters so adamant that they know exactly what is wrong, what the causes are, and how to fix it instantly?

Like every single fan of any football club I have my opinions and I do get frustrated (Palace and Fulham away have been personal low points this season), but I also know that I am not in possession of all of the facts or of certain influential people''s opinions.

Maybe I''m being an idealist but I would love more of this board to recognise this and instead of resorting to mindless vitriol and overblown rhetoric to just get behind the lads. Yes, we may not be happy with the standard of football or recent results but we''re supporters so let''s support. We''d be fools to think that this undercurrent of bitterness doen''t affect the team in a negative way, so let''s do our part properly.

(I know I''m about to get shot down in flames on this, but it needs saying).[/quote]"why are certain posters so adamant that they know exactly what is wrong"because they watch games, perhaps

"and instead of resorting to mindless vitriol and overblown rhetoric to just get behind the lads"how do you know what anyone on here does at a game, you don''t ?

"We''d be fools to think that this undercurrent of bitterness doen''t affect the team in a negative way"no, the fool is you for thinking that what is posted matters one jot to the players - it is a forum for fans to let off steam etc ... that is all

So can we have less of these bleats from the apologists who try to link comment on here with lack of support for the club/team. When you have evidence of any link then post it, until then wind your neck in

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This is exactly the kind of response I expected.

Firstly, every man and his dog can watch a football match, doesn''t make them an expert in how to run a multi-million pound football club business or to manage a Premier League team.

Secondly, I never said "mindless vitriol and overflow rhetoric" in regards to posters behaviour at games. I was referring directly to this board.

Thirdly, I was referring to the fact that the mob mentality drummed up on the board and the calls for protests etc could have an impact on players. It''s when this poisonous atmosphere created here reaches beyond the confines of this board.

Finally - bleats from apologists? Why don''t you get off your high horse. You don''t know whether I''m an "apologist" or not because I don''t splash it around and frankly I''m still on the fence. Maybe you should take your own advice and wind your neck in.

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Objectively, irrespective of me or my own opinions, I have seen 4 or 5 posters on here who I believe know the dos and don''ts of how to set up a balanced Premier League team, and can clearly see that Hughton''s approaches are largely ineffectual in both defence and attack. You do not need a UEFA Pro Licence to absorb a lot of football, whether that be by reading autobiographies, tactical literature, managerial literature, or actually watching the game, and use that knowledge to ascertain where we are going wrong or why.In terms of an analogy, if I had studied for an exam and passed it with a C, and someone else was currently studying and getting a better mark on their practice exams- that shows that they probably know more about the subject than those with a certificate.I''m not saying that there are posters on here who know more about setting up and managing a football team than Chris Hughton- but I am saying it is possible to have a professional knowledge of the game without having the qualifications to show for it.

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Keep reading the word apologist recently, it makes it sounds as if people are making excuses for fascists! It''s not unreasonable to suggest that running football club is far more difficult than throwing ideas at a msg board.

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I knew more about Audi''s then the car salesman who tried to sell me mine.

I knew more about the house and its area I was looking at the other day than the estate agent who showed me around.

I went in to a superstore the other day and I was instantly spotting annoying things wrong the manager should have been dealing with.

I don''t sell cars for a living, or houses and haven''t worked in a supermarket since I was a teenager. It is a fallacy in life to suggest that unless you work in a field you can''t have any insight into it or how it could be run better.

People who have a passion for something often know a lot about it, whether this is their job or not.

The problem everyone involved in a football club has is that many people, who for want of a better word are their customers, have a breath of knowledge and a passion for what they should be doing.

I imagine my Audi salesman got away with his lack of knowledge with most of his customers, people in football positions don''t have that luxury.

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[quote user="lowlyfendweller"]Keep reading the word apologist recently, it makes it sounds as if people are making excuses for fascists! It''s not unreasonable to suggest that running football club is far more difficult than throwing ideas at a msg board.[/quote]

How strange (or not)An apologist makes up something that has not been said so as to answer that insteadNobody who can see te blinding faults in Hughton''s management is talking about how to run the clubHowever there are a still a small recaltirent minority who constantly clutter up this board with their attempts to excuse Hughton''s failings by claiming that as the manager, nothing concerning managing the first team is his fault

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Life mysteries No 121
Governments ballsup all the time, that''s quite obvious.  Businesses make mistakes all the time, other customer services wouldn''t exist as they do where you can tell them their ballsups.
Yet football clubs are run that well. Nobody on the outside are on their level of knowledge and expertise. 

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="lowlyfendweller"]Keep reading the word apologist recently, it makes it sounds as if people are making excuses for fascists! It''s not unreasonable to suggest that running football club is far more difficult than throwing ideas at a msg board.[/quote]

How strange (or not)An apologist makes up something that has not been said so as to answer that insteadNobody who can see te blinding faults in Hughton''s management is talking about how to run the clubHowever there are a still a small recaltirent minority who constantly clutter up this board with their attempts to excuse Hughton''s failings by claiming that as the manager, nothing concerning managing the first team is his fault

[/quote]Go on then, find me someone who has said that theres nothing wrong whatsoever.Put your money where your mouth is.Which would be a fair amount of money.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="City1st"][quote user="lowlyfendweller"]Keep reading the word apologist recently, it makes it sounds as if people are making excuses for fascists! It''s not unreasonable to suggest that running football club is far more difficult than throwing ideas at a msg board.[/quote]

How strange (or not)An apologist makes up something that has not been said so as to answer that insteadNobody who can see te blinding faults in Hughton''s management is talking about how to run the clubHowever there are a still a small recaltirent minority who constantly clutter up this board with their attempts to excuse Hughton''s failings by claiming that as the manager, nothing concerning managing the first team is his fault

[/quote]Go on then, find me someone who has said that theres nothing wrong whatsoever.Put your money where your mouth is.Which would be a fair amount of money.[/quote]
Mick Dennis...."It''s the fans that''s the problem".

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="City1st"][quote user="lowlyfendweller"]Keep reading the word apologist recently, it makes it sounds as if people are making excuses for fascists! It''s not unreasonable to suggest that running football club is far more difficult than throwing ideas at a msg board.[/quote]

How strange (or not)An apologist makes up something that has not been said so as to answer that insteadNobody who can see te blinding faults in Hughton''s management is talking about how to run the clubHowever there are a still a small recaltirent minority who constantly clutter up this board with their attempts to excuse Hughton''s failings by claiming that as the manager, nothing concerning managing the first team is his fault

[/quote]Go on then, find me someone who has said that theres nothing wrong whatsoever.Put your money where your mouth is.Which would be a fair amount of money.[/quote]

 

Even in copper[:O] [;)]

Copper Money Close Up

 

 

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I don''t think many people if anyone at all are inventing information to support CH. His weak points are there for all to see in this unforgiving league. What I see are not apologists on the whole just people who think that if we win enough games he will stay if not he will go, and would rather remain optimistic because they find preferable to pessimism.

The word apologist is a word use to shame, that I associate with people events more severe than the health of a football club. Perhaps this my veiw alone and I''d also like to add I''m severely disgruntled with the perceived lack of confidence of a significant number of our performances under Hughton

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