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Yellow Messiah

Hoolahan transfer request rejected!

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Hasn''t played much this season.

Hasn''t honestly done all that much spectacular when he has played. (not his fault necessarily).

Doesn''t fit the manager''s style of play (which isn''t going to change and CH is here for the season now IMHO).

Is 31 and starting to lose financial value.

Deserves and is good enough to be playing more regularly.

I honestly think the best deal for both Wes and the club is for him to go. However - I can completely see why McNally doesnt want to deal with Lambert after the way PL behaved towards us and after he poached Jed Steer.

I think he''ll leave on deadline day, either to Villa for more money or to somewhere else.

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I understand that Wes will want to play more games, and guess that had he reached double figures he would have been reasonably content considering he is in fact the type of player that I really dont think you can play in every game at this level anyway, others may disagree.

But, now seeing his interview in the Telegraph, this all smacks of being totally contrived and influenced by Agents and another club/people and is, quite frankly, not only embarrassing but taking everyone for fools......pathetic almost......and I now really do want to see the back of Wes and the accompanying circus, and am now even feeling that I dont give a toss if he joins Lambert at Villa........a big club who quite frankly should be aiming higher than Grant Holt and Wes Hoolahan.......the best of luck to him and thanks for a terrific contribution!  

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Well, used to be that a good player was just that, a good player. Now in the golden days of very clever strategies and formations that cannot accommodate very good players those very good players just don''t play regardless it seems of the results and quality of football that is on offer without them. If he is such a lightweight who cannot shoot, head or tackle and is not going to play except as a last resort, then let him go and if he is all those things then let him go to Villa after all what harm could it possibly do........Interesting to speculate how that might work out.

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We should let him go. Given the choice of hapless or the Messiah as your manager it''s a no brainer!

We can use the money to pay off hapless and get a decent manager in!

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Wes has got skills that are unique to the squad,he may still be needed this season and we should keep him.

He has a contract and should get on with his job!

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Just wondering if any poster has ever worked in any business or organisation where everybody loved the boss? Why should everyone love Hughton? He may be a nice guy but he is not a saint. If he upsets some people so what?

I really don''t see the point being made here.[/quote]Tend to agree there, Cambs. Whether Tom, Dick or Harry likes Hughton or v.v. , is pretty irrelevant. All I''m interested in is whether they want to play for Norwich City, and how well they play, if selected.And, as far as Hoolahan goes, it all keeps coming back to the same point. If he does not want to be here, then, fair enough. Let him go. To the highest bidder. If that happens to be Aston Villa, then so what ? As I''ve said before, let''s put this whole thing to the test. Hughton clearly does not want Hoolahan (or else he''d play him ). So let''s see how badlly Lambert wants him. If he does, he''ll pay the money.

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Looks like one of my all time favourite Norwich players will soon be leaving Norwich as I cant see anyway back from this one. Hoolahan is a genius on the pitch and a player of his type is so rare in English football. The fact that he will be leaving through Hughton accommodating inferior big money signings is even more goading. I think the policy of persisting with RVW (who has no real quality attributes) and trying to play two similar type players up front (mainly due to fan pressure) has clearly contributed to Hoolahans decision.

Yes, Hoolahan will lose the ball and he is not effective in every single game, but how many players in the current Norwich squad will opposition teams actually worry about?? I guarantee if they feel Wes is in the side, he will be the player they look to stop playing especially as our set piece threat has gone this season (Mainly due to the amount of free kicks Holt won and the fact referees are wise to the persistent Snodgrass cheating / diving).

While I am not a big fan of Hughton, I don''t really agree with the policy of sacking the manager at this stage of the season. Letting Hoolahan go for peanuts will be the final straw for me though. Hoolahan should start against Newcastle behind Hooper or RVW, which is the approach we should take to nearly all PL matches. There is nowhere near enough midfield quality in the Norwich squad to accommodate two strikers and I see little point in asking RVW or Hooper to drop into the No10 role to do a job Hoolahan can do 10 times better. At the age of 31, Wes easily has another 3 years of top level football in him. He has no real pace to lose and if anything he will get better through experience.

I can totally understand  Hoolahan''s request to leave and hope he goes on to make a fool out of Hughton. 

Absolute joke and Big mistake!!

 

 

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For me our best football over the last couple of seasons is when we played with Surman, Hoolahan, holt and Pilkington under lambert and last season under Hughton they played some top stuff. For Hughton has broke this core up to early and rushed integrating new players into a flawed system. Will pilks be next?

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]under Hughton they played some top stuff. [/quote]TBH, I''m not sure that there was a great deal of ''top stuff'' ever played under Hughton, Lincs. Maybe during the 10 game unbeaten run ? But, in the main part, last season was dire.Personally, I''ve no problem with CH attempting to upgrade the squad. Players who''ve done well for us in the past cannot go on for ever, particularly at a higher level.No, what perplexes me is how many players who he''s brought in on the strength of their exploits elsewhere have put in rather underwhelming performances when subjected to the Hughton/Calderwood/Trollope brand of coaching and tactical magic.

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[quote user="Nigel Worthless"]

 I think the policy of persisting with RVW (who has no real quality attributes) and trying to play two similar type players up front (mainly due to fan pressure) has clearly contributed to Hoolahans decision.

 

[/quote]I gave up reading at this point

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lincoln canary"]under Hughton they played some top stuff. [/quote]TBH, I''m not sure that there was a great deal of ''top stuff'' ever played under Hughton, Lincs. Maybe during the 10 game unbeaten run ? But, in the main part, last season was dire.Personally, I''ve no problem with CH attempting to upgrade the squad. Players who''ve done well for us in the past cannot go on for ever, particularly at a higher level.No, what perplexes me is how many players who he''s brought in on the strength of their exploits elsewhere have put in rather underwhelming performances when subjected to the Hughton/Calderwood/Trollope brand of coaching and tactical magic.[/quote]

Yes referring to infamous 10 game run.

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This whole situation really annoys me!

Every player should want to play but if the manager doesn''t pick him for whatever reason then he should be entitled to look elsewhere, get all of that and if it was any other club other than Villa I would say off you go Wes and thanks for everything.

However, as it''s Villa and if the amount suggested is what they offered then I would say make him stay and see out his contract. Isn''t it funny how Lambert was sniffing around in the summer and it never went anywhere, he gets Holt in and now he''s back sniffing around again. Not only is that the case but we now get these quotes from a Holt about how great Wes is blah blah blah best mates, apply the pressure etc etc.

Do it all properly and show some respect Lambert, Holt and Hoolahan, and then maybe people might accept him moving on and to Villa.

There is a little part of me that says take away his squad number, make him he see out the rest of the his contract at which point he will be too old for a decent move.

He needs to remember that whilst he is under contract the club isn''t obliged to do anything and it''s not like we are desperate for such a small amount of money is it!

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I may well be proved wrong, but I still think this is mostly about wanting a contract extension, and seeing Villa''s interest as a good opportunity to try and force the issue.

Maybe Holt and his agent have been giving Wes advice on how to spit your dummy out in public yet still get your own way.

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This all smacks of the same tactics Villa/Lambert used over his move there and for that reason i am fully behind any stance of do not sell to Villa and let them get away with their grubby little tactics. We are being painted as unreasonable/the villains (no pun intended) for not agreeing to sell a good player to a premier league rival for a pittance when it appears they have tapped up our player and are trying to get him on the cheap. its the same kind of tactics as were employed when Lambert moved and they tried to argue he was entitled to walk without compo due to our unreasonable conduct. Despite all the big talk they didn''t fancy taking it to the tribunal in the end though did they! Grubby tactics from a grubby club. I''ve even seen their fans arguing on twitter that our refusal to sell Hoolahan to them dirt cheap shows our "small club mentality." So to prove we are not a small club we should sell them a good player dirt cheap! Laughable.

Ultimately, it is not us rejecting his transfer request that is stopping Wes from moving. Its that we don;t need/want to sell and thus will only do so if someone makes us a good offer that is worth considering. There offer is derisory. in fact its barely even derisory. If someone makes us a proper offer then it will be considered. Until someone does, the rest of this circus is all irrelevant.

If Wes is as good as his word in that interview and is not going to sulk then no problem. We keep him in the squad and play him when he''s needed. If however its all spin and he is causing problems behind the scenes then he can go in the U21s or on loan to the championship for the rest of the season. Ok that may annoy him but i''m sure £25K a week will soften the blow

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Quite interesting reading the comments from Chelsea fans about their sale of Mata to Utd. Very similar to what is being said here - why are we selling our best player? why are we selling our most creative player? Why are we selling to a rival? Why isnt he in the team?  Lots of slights against Mourinho and his negative football, which Mata is perceived as not fitting into. Chelsea fans not happy.

 

Least its not just us!

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[quote user="Evesham Canary"]Good player & I would agree (to an extent) that we look better when Wes plays. However, whilst he helps solve the lack of creativity issue in the team he doesn''t solve the goal scoring one! When he plays as the No 10 he simply doesn''t get in the box enough. He played a decent chunk of last year & managed 3 goals. Indeed most were saying post Christmas last year that we needed 2 strikers!

Get what u can for him & allow him to move on whilst still loved by our fans.[/quote]

Excellent post Evesham. When Wes was playing every week last season all people did was complain that Hughton was being negative. Now he''s not playing, all people do is complain that Hughton is being negative!

The fact is that, however attractive Wes is to watch, and I''m a confirmed admirer by the way, his stats weren''t great last year. I don''t really blame CH for trying to evolve the squad, and the likes of RVW are only going to improve and adapt by playing.

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Just had a look on Villa Talk to see what they think and someone called ''Son of Wiz'' with a familiar signature is giving them advice.

 

 

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Just wondering if any poster has ever worked in any business or organisation where everybody loved the boss? Why should everyone love Hughton? He may be a nice guy but he is not a saint. If he upsets some people so what?

I really don''t see the point being made here.[/quote]Tend to agree there, Cambs. Whether Tom, Dick or Harry likes Hughton or v.v. , is pretty irrelevant. All I''m interested in is whether they want to play for Norwich City, and how well they play, if selected.And, as far as Hoolahan goes, it all keeps coming back to the same point. If he does not want to be here, then, fair enough. Let him go. To the highest bidder. If that happens to be Aston Villa, then so what ? As I''ve said before, let''s put this whole thing to the test. Hughton clearly does not want Hoolahan (or else he''d play him ). So let''s see how badlly Lambert wants him. If he does, he''ll pay the money.[/quote]

Wes just played from the start v Man Utd and Crystal Palace and has been in the squad for every game since except Fulham, it''s not like he''s totally out in the cold - he''s actually made 12 appearances for the Club this season. It''s less than last season, clearly, but he''s still, having appeared in about 50% of our fixtures this season, very much part of the squad.

As I''ve said before, selling Wes to a direct rival is potentially dangerous to the Club. I think we''d be much more likely to consider selling to a Champ Club or a foreign league than to Aston Villa.

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I''m a huge Wes fan and I''d play him more than Hughton does for sure. But I used to be in the minority over this. The impression I got from the  "name your team threads" was that the majority view used to be to sacrifice Wes in order to play 442. I wouldn''t play Wes in a 442. I think if he was in the centre with Fer we''d get over run and for me he''s not good enough as a wide player. If we play two up front Wes is a bench option for me.

 

 

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“I’ve had loads of good times at the club. The back-to-back promotion seasons were obviously special, particularly the game against Portsmouth that secured our place in the Premier League. The first year in the Premier League was also great, but its time for me to move on."

 

So no times with Chris Hughton then? Speaks volumes really doesnt it?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m a huge Wes fan and I''d play him more than Hughton does for sure. But I used to be in the minority over this. The impression I got from the  "name your team threads" was that the majority view used to be to sacrifice Wes in order to play 442. I wouldn''t play Wes in a 442. I think if he was in the centre with Fer we''d get over run and for me he''s not good enough as a wide player. If we play two up front Wes is a bench option for me.

 

 

[/quote]

Exactly Nige - when he played alot last season all people said was that we should drop him and play 4-4-2. Now he''s not playing so much, everyone says we should pick him.

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Under Chris Hughton, the objective has been consolidation in the premiership so it''s not surprising that Hoolahan remembers more clearly the exciting back to back promotion period. I don''t think you can use this to give Hughton another beating. On a broader note, although I have always been impressed by Hoolahan''s occasional quality particularly within the context of the diamond formation when playing Championship and League 1 opponents I have always felt that with him there is a precarious trade-off between his infrequent moments of quality and creativity and the more frequent instances of him being dispossessed of the ball in midfield resulting in immediate counter attacks and, often, goals.

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I personally have always felt we look better with Wes in the team. Wes is a pain in the a*se because, as has been highlighted, he provides the Hoolahan connundrum. Not really a direct goal threat, largely ineffective on the wing, lacks the physicality of a centre mid. Wes plays best at the tip of a diamond with two players in front of him (not a lone striker - as Wes is best when he has options), which is something we''ve never really been able to do. Playing with only one up front means Wes would also have to weigh in with the goals, something he cant do. BUT - we always look flat, directionless and without a clue how to attack without Wes. When the team does badly Wes gets criticized, we drop him but then instantly look flat. I think Wes is designed for 12-a-side football. Using him is always going to be an imperfect solution, but I think what we get from him outweighs what we have to sacrifice. Thats just my opinion and everyone will have their own feelings on this. IMO though, we always look better with Wes, and he would be in my team most of the time.

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So Wes wants to play football (who can blame him), and he doesn''t think he is playing enough at Norwich, so he puts in a transfer request.

We still need him for some games, so it is declined.

If Hughton doesn''t play him much....Do we really need him???

If not, and Wes seems to be stomping his feet (if media is to be believed), lets give him his chance to play regular football.

I am sure someone like Kings Lynn would welcome him on loan...Maybe Swaffham would too...If he could fit into the squads.

Sorry to say, but thanks for all your previous efforts Wes, but short stroppy gits get what they deserve...I personally hope he stays, and if he can''t be bothered anymore for us (time will tell) then put out on lower division loan.

Maybe that would make other footballers rethink the way they go about trying to get what they want after signing a contract!

Rant over ;)

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I agree with the comment about Wes fitting in a 12-man team.  You can''t play him as part of a 4 man midfield, but really you need 2 strikers in front of him for it to work, either way it''s a difficult compromise to fit him in the team.

 

For me we ''ve been best this season with a 451/433 formation with Fer, Tettey and Howson in midfield, 2 specialist wingers on the flanks, and a striker up front.  But with Hooper and RVW both fit, does it work to have 442 now we''ve signed Jonas ?  It''s not easy.

 

I can understand Wes wanting to play more and wanting to get a contract for another year, at his age.  But no way should we sell him to another Prem team and he''s useful as a squad player, so I''d be very surprised if we sell him this month.

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I like that he highlights that Lambert turned him from a winger into a player who plays behind the strikers.

As Nige says, that for me is why he can be a difficult player to include in teams at times.

The diamond worked up until our first premiership season. Lambert then tinkered, I presume, because he knew that system was not going to be as successful in the premier league.

Reading the article posted elsewhere is interesting as it states Lambert had both him and Holt down to be moved on to be able to improve the team. Which to me speaks volumes about where he feels Villa are right now.

I challenge anyone not to admire Hoolahan as a player. Some of the individual pieces of skill I have seen him produce in play have been simply amazing. I recall him backed up against a 6''+ defender with the ball coming down out of the sky, the defender knew he couldn''t push him out of the way to head it and probably thought ''What''s the worse that could happen?''. Well Wes, that''s what! His first touch was one fluid move, killing the ball and tucking it underneath himself and between the legs of the defender. By the time the defender knew what was going on Wes was already around him with the ball at his feet.

However, for me, as others have stated, it''s hard at times to see where he fits in. We do need his creative ability but he seems to be quite limited in terms of where you can play him so that creative influence is most harnessed. He appears to struggle playing out wide, and even in behind a lone striker at times.

Looking at how Villa play, I''m not sure where they would play him either. As one of the front three? Or would they change shape altogether and go for the diamond?

Personally, I would try and flog him to Celtic. The only problem is that there is nothing stopping Celtic selling him at a later date to Villa.

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He''s only a useful squad player if you are actually going to play him ICF.

 

And Wes can play in a 442, the diamond worked well and I am yet to actually see it tried with 2 wide players in a classic 442, so to say he can''t without actually seeing it is a bit presumptuous IMO.  I would agree however that it might not be the best formation for him, but without evidence how can we tell?

 

I don''t get this stroppy, stomping feet criticism from some fans.  What would you do in his situation? Clearly out of favour with the manager.  Desperate to play and contribute, but disregarded, even when the situations arise where he is needed.  I would be worried if a player felt content to just sit and watch.

 

 

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If we played Wes in a diamond we''d do it at the expense of Fer and Howson. Hoolahan is one of our best players and i reckon the only way we can use him with our other best players is at the top of a five. Really can''t see how we can play our best players in a diamond.

 

 

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I genuinely don''t see this as foot stomping. The lad is 31 and doesn''t want to spend the final years of his playing career sat on his arse, and I don''t really blame him. Let''s not judge him too harshly and remember that he stayed here when we went down to the 3rd tier when the rest of the rats deserted the sinking ship.

If Hughton isn''t really going to use him, and he really, really wants to go then I think we should grant him is wish and let him leave, he deserves that much.

Just not to Villa.

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