Canary Willo 0 Posted January 23, 2014 Some very interesting ''inside'' thoughts!!!!! http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2014/01/23/bad-blood-between-villa-and-city-makes-wess-desire-to-move-to-the-second-city-ever-more-unlikely/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfbird 1 Posted January 23, 2014 Good spot Willow. Most enlightening that Lambert wanted to sell both Holt and Hoolahan at some stage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted January 23, 2014 Wow, quite some revelations in there. I find the one about PL wanting to sell Hoolahan after he arrived at Carrow Road quite hard to believe or understand given the role he was subsequently given in the side. Also, Hughton pulling Holt off the transfer list and getting him to sign a new contract when he arrived was a coup in itself, but then using him to spearhead our successful survival campaing before selling him afterwards for £2m quid looks like something of a master stroke in hindsight! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncfcstar 287 Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="a1canary"]Wow, quite some revelations in there. I find the one about PL wanting to sell Hoolahan after he arrived at Carrow Road quite hard to believe or understand given the role he was subsequently given in the side.[/quote]Not really, he had both him and Doherty training with the kids for a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="a1canary"]Wow, quite some revelations in there. I find the one about PL wanting to sell Hoolahan after he arrived at Carrow Road quite hard to believe or understand given the role he was subsequently given in the side. Also, Hughton pulling Holt off the transfer list and getting him to sign a new contract when he arrived was a coup in itself, but then using him to spearhead our successful survival campaing before selling him afterwards for £2m quid looks like something of a master stroke in hindsight![/quote]There are! But in the here and now, given Mick Dennis''s links to the boardroom, I don''t think he would have written that as strongly as he has unless he was as sure as can be that Hoolahan will not be sold to Villa. Certainly not in this transfer window and probably never. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoots 0 Posted January 23, 2014 I remember very clearly that in the early days of his time with Norwich, Lambert consistently refused to play both Hoolahan (and Daryl Russell). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted January 23, 2014 Fascinating piece. Shows up villa for the slimy little club they are Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 922 Posted January 23, 2014 Would be really interested to know who was on the list that Lambert had submitted of players to get rid of, I wonder if the much lauded Fox would have been gone then and if so whether or not there would have been as much gnashing and wailing if so....I also like the stats someone has put together in the comments showing how often we concede with each midfielder on the pitch, Snoddy may not be providing the same attacking flair as he did last year but certainly seems to be important defensively, similarly it could be used to show how effective Tettey is at breaking up attacks before reaching the defense and why we have looked slightly suspect without him.For reference here is the post I refer to:Wes has 1 assist in the league this season (1 every 418 min) no goals, Elmander has 4 (1 every 227 min) no goals, Redmond has 3 (1 every 439 min) and 1 goal every 1317. Pilkington has 1 assist in 550 minutes but has a goal too.The big difference comes in goals conceded. We conceded more when Wes plays than almost every other midfielder/striker.Murphy 1 goal conceed every 23 minPilkington 1 every 37 minHoolahan 1 every 42 minHowson 1 every 48Johnson 1 every 50Hooper 1 every 56Redmond 1 every 60Fer 1 every 69Tettey 1 every 75Elmander 1 every 76RVW 1 every 83Snodgrass 1 every 90Hoolahan is probably fighting for a place with Elmander, RVW and Hooper. There’s an argument for him being a head of RVW but when you’ve spend 8.5 mil you don’t expect him to be on the bench. Would you drop Hooper (top goal scorer) for him, no. Even Elmander has a better assist rate this season and offers more defensively.Simply Hoolahan hasn’t done enough when he has played this season. He got 33 league games under Hughton last season (the same as Lambert the year before). He has 3 assists last year (1 every 11 games). Bennett, Pilkingon & Holt all had 3, Snodgrass had 6. Even Johnson and Bassong has 2 each. Goals + assists last season (all comps) reads:Snodgrass 6 + 6Holt 8 + 3Pilkington 5 + 3Hoolahan 3 + 3Bassong 3 + 2Bennett 1 + 3Turner & Martin 3 + 0Hoolahan makes us more vunerable at the back and hasn’t offered enough going forward. That’s why he’s not in the fist 11. The strangest thing is that his 1 assist this season come when he played on the wing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="a1canary"]Wow, quite some revelations in there. I find the one about PL wanting to sell Hoolahan after he arrived at Carrow Road quite hard to believe or understand given the role he was subsequently given in the side.[/quote]Not really, he had both him and Doherty training with the kids for a while.[/quote]The charlton game at home in league one was the turnaround point for Hoolahan. Previous to this he wasn''t playing and Lambert made no attempt to hide the fact he didn''t fancy him. After his fine display against Charlton, lambert soon realised he needed wes, not only this he built the team around him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted January 23, 2014 With grant holt being wheeled out to declare his admiration of Wes I think one more word from them and we need to go direct to the FA and get them to take action. Tapping up players is against regulations and needs to be taken seriously. The letter sent to them warning them off and the reply saying they will consider what we''ve asked shows you everything you need to know about villa. Struggling to think of better words than "brain dead, smoke breathing midlanders"Child abuse capital - FACT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GPs Beard 0 Posted January 23, 2014 indeed, very interesting. does this knock on the head a suggestion I read on here that Wes may have one of these release clauses in his contract triggered by a certain amount as he had at Blackpool? Or is everyone boxing around it? Does smack a bit of NCFC releasing a message through a favoured channel doesn''t it? Dennis is a favoured route. Has Nursey had anything to say? He was right in the middle of the Lambert going to Villa story, in fact I think he broke it? My recollection was that Wes was on his way before Lambert joined - he was first off the pitch when we lost to Colchester? I actually thought Lambert revived him. Villa have tapped him up haven''t they? It all seems a bit obvious . Surely even the muppets at the FA could spot this one. The odds of us finding a replacement for the money are slim I would say? Stick him out on a short term loan to the championship, cover some of his wages , and recall him if we need to would be my plan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOO 0 Posted January 23, 2014 As I said elsewhere, he is under contract to us,he should get on with his job. If he didn''t want to be here then why did he sign a contract! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,156 Posted January 23, 2014 I wonder if Villa really thought they had a chance of buying him at £750k or anything like. Maybe their thinking is that if we sell Wes to them on the cheap, that''s great, otherwise it could destabilize him which is also good for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wiz 0 Posted January 23, 2014 Villa and QPR, two tin pot and slease ridden clubs if ever I saw them. [:@] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Dennis 0 Posted January 23, 2014 In fairness to Wes, he opted to stick with us when we dropped into League One (contrary to what is suggested in this thread). After that dreadful afternoon at Charlton, Gunny asked them all who was ready to stay and fight. Wes was.He had to force his way into Lambert''s plans. I think the tragedy, for Wes and the team, is that he''d just done that -- forced his way into the side -- under CH when Villa''s offer of a longer contract ''turned his head''.My ideal resolution would be for him to stay and play. He''s the last survivor of the pre-Lambert era and, as such, has been part of the extraordinary narrative of our club through the most amazing period any of us will live through.He can''t play with ''2 up'', in my view, but would be an incisive alternative to the RVW role in the 4-4-1-1 in the first half v Hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monty13 2,169 Posted January 23, 2014 Mick thanks for stopping by and adding opinion from the horses mouth."He can''t play with ''2 up'', in my view, but would be an incisive alternative to the RVW role in the 4-4-1-1 in the first half v Hull."I agree whole heartedly wit this and can''t really fathom why it hasn''t happened more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgncfc 1,204 Posted January 23, 2014 If Wes isn''t "in the right frame of mind" to play for us anymore, and we won''t under any circumstance sell him to Villa (or indeed any other relegation rival) where can he now go?He has to move down to the Champs, at least until the Summer when PL can buy him from Leicester/Forest/Derby or whoever. Let''s see them come up with the £25k a week and a two year deal for a 32 year old like Wigan did for Holty.As long as the relevant Champs club comes up with at least £2m and we don''t complete the paperwork until one second before the end of the window, that would be a result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted January 23, 2014 It''s desperation on Villa''s and Lambert''s part to be trying to get both Holt and Lambert to join his sinking ship. Granted our ship isn''t in much better shape right now but if you''d said to Villa fans that Lambert''s transfer targets in his second January transfer window, well in to his second full season at Villa Park, were Holt and Hoolahan... they''d have laughed you out of Birmingham! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yelloow Since 72 53 Posted January 23, 2014 It does seem to have an air of desperation and/or spite about it. Does Villa really lack funds to that extent or does PL just want some ''comfort players'' around? Really does seem strange. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crabbycanary 2 Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="a1canary"]It''s desperation on Villa''s and Lambert''s part to be trying to get both Holt and Lambert to join his sinking ship. Granted our ship isn''t in much better shape right now but if you''d said to Villa fans that Lambert''s transfer targets in his second January transfer window, well in to his second full season at Villa Park, were Holt and Hoolahan... they''d have laughed you out of Birmingham![/quote]Agreed. I said on a thread a few days ago that if Lambert thought the sun shine''s out of their backsides, why did he not try and sign them 18 months ago? They were better players then, than now, surely?Smells of desperation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted January 23, 2014 I think the reality is that McNally won''t sell, Hoolahan will have a change of heart rather than rot in the reserves, with a view to moving on in the summer, when we have plenty of time to get a replacement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basil brush 0 Posted January 24, 2014 You have to take Mick Dennis ''journalism'' with a pinch of salt and he is so far up the clubs backside that he comes across anything but objective.His ''be careful what you wish for'' stance is somewhat reminiscent of his co-writer Waghorn''s final days in the Roeder era, though to be fair to Rick, he now seems to be fairly objective in his writing approach. MD seems to be discrediting Lambert and using his bias to deflect the heat off Hughton, The Directors and the club in general. Keep and open mind what he writes and more importantly think why he is writing it...As for Wes, I don''t care if they sell him to Villa. Hughton won''t play him, so what is he supposed to do? It''s a bit like an ex girlfriend not wanting you to go out with her mate, even though she no longer wants you. Use it or lose it as the saying goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fergodsake 0 Posted January 24, 2014 Personally I dont see us and Villa as likely to be in the scrap fro relegation at the end of it all. But regardless of that, it is clear we will be in roughly the same place in the table. Now envisage the scenario whereby PL gets the best out of Hoolahan, and they gain an extra 4 points from his contribution and therefore means they come slightly above us, thats 750,000 lost in prize money for us, and villa are paid back his transfer fee. I know its speculative, but its very possible, and for that alone I wouldnt sell when we dont have to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fergodsake 0 Posted January 24, 2014 Ps I actually have no problem with Villa, I just feel that about any club near us in the table. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sox 1 0 Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="basil brush"]You have to take Mick Dennis ''journalism'' with a pinch of salt and he is so far up the clubs backside that he comes across anything but objective.His ''be careful what you wish for'' stance is somewhat reminiscent of his co-writer Waghorn''s final days in the Roeder era, though to be fair to Rick, he now seems to be fairly objective in his writing approach. MD seems to be discrediting Lambert and using his bias to deflect the heat off Hughton, The Directors and the club in general. Keep and open mind what he writes and more importantly think why he is writing it...As for Wes, I don''t care if they sell him to Villa. Hughton won''t play him, so what is he supposed to do? It''s a bit like an ex girlfriend not wanting you to go out with her mate, even though she no longer wants you. Use it or lose it as the saying goes.[/quote]But if it was an ex wife rather than an ex girlfriend, she would be perfectly within her right to refuse you a divorce if she was so inclined!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="Buh"]Fascinating piece. Shows up villa for the slimy little club they are[/quote]Slimy for what? Doing exactly what we did to Colchester when Lambert was their manager.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted January 25, 2014 Benteke was on his list here, maybe wouldve let holt go if he had got him...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites