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Midfield is the problem

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Can''t fault the defence or the strikers. We can''t keep the ball in midfield and there''s no pace out wide bar Redmond. Bradders despite all his effort is not good enough. We desperately need a decent central midfielder who can control the game. Forget more strikers and centre backs, that''s not where it''s going wrong.

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Yes. It was obviously going to be the problem as soon as the idiot decided to play 4-4-2 and not only that but do it with Johnson as one of the two. Don''t get me wrong, I like Bradders and he''s been playing better of late but against the better teams he needs to operate as part of a three. We didn''t have a single player out there who links play. We do have one but sadly Hughton has alienated him and probably intends to sell him in the next few days.

Thankfully Tettey will now come back into the team which will help but we should be playing 4-2-3-1 against most teams if we want decent possession of the ball.

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yes, i think it will come in time as the midfield improves. Redmond will get better, we''ll replace snodgrass and johnson and then it''ll be all fine.

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Desperately need Howson back. He has been a massive loss.

 

There''s just no pace or drive without him.

 

 

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that is because we are stuck with this useless zonal sh ite

don''t mark tight

and don''t move when we have the ball

the problem is NOT the players, but the tactics ..... as it has been since he has been here

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4-3-3 was our best looking formation this season with Tettey holding and Fer and Howson able to push forward. This also gave the full backs licence to get forward more often and not be stifled by the ineffectual wingers in front of them when playing a 4-4-2.

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I have been waiting for the Fer/Tettey partnership since day one. Johnson just isn''t cut out for a sustained period at this level. I think we will see a lot more fluency in our play now Tettey and Fer can do their thing.

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[quote user="Kurious Oranj"]4-3-3 was our best looking formation this season with Tettey holding and Fer and Howson able to push forward. This also gave the full backs licence to get forward more often and not be stifled by the ineffectual wingers in front of them when playing a 4-4-2.[/quote]If that 4-3-3 was the 4-1-4-1 in attack mode then I''d totally agree. With Tettey behind the midfield four we could play a little higher up and also have an extra man when defending. Overall it was a nicely balanced system.

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Midfield is absolutely the problem I completely agree with this.

GOOD ENOUGH

Fer, Redmond & Howson

SQUAD PLAYERS

Tettey, Snodgrass, Pilkington, Bennett, Hoolahan & Murphy

ABSOLUTELY NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Bradley "Can''t do anything remotely attacking" Johnson

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We could try playing in all these different formations, try out loads of different players but the problem for me is one thing.....We play in straight lines. We are so square at times it''s unbelieveable. When we have the ball you can bet that the shape we have is the same as when we dont have it, theres no movement with people trying to give the person on the ball a better/angled option.

I am not claiming we should be playing anywhere near like Bayern but just look at the options they create for themselves and then think back to last night and consider how many options our players had whilst on the ball. 9 times out of 10 it was either a square ball sideways or a chip down the line. Sadly in my opinion this is Chris Hughton''s fault and it need''s to be changed fast.

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Lack of a top quality midfielder (or two) has been the main problem for a couple of years.

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I like your picture! I agree that we lack fluidity and creativity due to our zonal defensive approach.

IMO our best midfield is

Tetty

Redmond Fer Howson Pilks

that or a combination of

Tetty

Snods Fer Hoolahan Pilks

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It doesn''t matter what formation or personnel are picked. It''s Hughton''s set up of the shape. Defence too deep, causing the midfield to drop deep resulting in our strikers being isolated. Newcastles defenders were pushed right up, their fullbacks were joining in the attack and all playing as a unit. When they play like that they have so many options on the ball. With us, our defender has the ball, his options are a short pass to the midfield which are right in front of him. he''s then under pressure as the strikers are miles away. This for me is why Hughton and his "coaching staff" have to go as this shape won''t change under them.

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It''s interesting that, in this thread alone there are six different formations and setups, involving lots of different permutations of players, all suggested by members of this forum. On other threads there have been several other possibilities.They seem blindingly obvious to all. All,  that is ,except one man. Mr Chris Hughton . Well, three men, if you include Calderwood and Trollope.Now, OK, as far as I''m aware no-one on this forum is a professional player, or has coached at this level, and that''s presumably what Hughton''s explanation for this would be. And the argument would no doubt go something like..."well we''re getting results and are 12th in the table".It seems to me that some of the setups above would actually be better suited to the players currently at Hughton''s disposal for selection.So, would it not just be a possibility for once to try something just a little different ? If not, why not ?

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Without doubt our problems are in midfield.

Be it defensively ( I look forward to seeing Tettey shield the back 4 of he did before) or attacking.

We create almost nothing, we do not attack as a unit and our build up play couldn''t be any more pedestrian.

I honestly do not think we have the player to make this group into a team. We need to push the boat out on either another Leroy Fer (allowing one of them to get forward more) or a creative attacking Midfielder who can play anywhere across the midfield, allowing us to vary the formation but still be creative.

This has been the player we have missed since Hughton arrived that would allow us to play his preferred system I just cannot see why it hasn''t been addressed.

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Much of the creativity that the formation that we are now trying to play should be coming from the wide players.But, for some reason we appear to be trying to play with inverted wingers in a 442. That in itself will restrict the amount of space for any midfielder, or defender to play any through balls into our strikers. I am afraid our wide players last night created very little. I wonder how envious RvW and Hooper were of the directness of the Newcastle attacks and the number of balls played into the box from wide positions. I will go further and say that if those chances were created for our two forwards they would have scored a few of them ............. but we will never know because we never are direct enough or creative enough from those wide positions.

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Our game plan is to hold midfield and create through the wide players.

 

The problem with that this season is five fold

  • We have had injuries to the wide players which has affected the team
  • The wide players have not played to their previous ability,  meaning the quality of crossing is worse;  inverted wingers have worked for us in previous seasons and many other clubs this - it is form that is the issue here
  • We dont have a target man to benefit from the crosses we do put in
  • Our strikers are not ones to thrive off crosses;   we have bought players whose strength is running straight at goal,  hoopers goals for us this season have come through that method.
  • We dont have a plan B;  Only Fer has shown any consistent capability to create through the middle of the park;   leaving our only option to continue to go wide,  which,  see the second point,  ain''t working. 

 

I completely agree with the OP (no surprise there,  its been my clarion call for two years now),  we need to improve how the central midfield operates;   prepared to run with the ball,   passing to team mates,  offering movement,  actually tackling, reading the game well.   We dont need foot pace in the side,   we need a footablling brain and ability to move the ball on quickly and offer body movement.

 

Key transfer targets remain a solid defensive & a creative attacking midfielder to partner Fer;  get them in place and we will have defensive stability and creative options both centrally and wide meaning hooper and rvw can flourish.    

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[quote user="vlad666"]It doesn''t matter what formation or personnel are picked. It''s Hughton''s set up of the shape. Defence too deep, causing the midfield to drop deep resulting in our strikers being isolated. Newcastles defenders were pushed right up, their fullbacks were joining in the attack and all playing as a unit. When they play like that they have so many options on the ball. With us, our defender has the ball, his options are a short pass to the midfield which are right in front of him. he''s then under pressure as the strikers are miles away. This for me is why Hughton and his "coaching staff" have to go as this shape won''t change under them.[/quote]

Of course it matters what personnel are picked. Hughton does not set up his defence to play deep and the midfielders to play on top of them. We can''t keep the ball in midfield and therefore can''t work attacking opportunities and spend the whole time trying to win the ball back. The defence are under constant siege because the ball keeps coming back at them and the strikers are feeding off scraps at best. Hughton''s fault is that he''s trying to play a style of play that suits technical players and they aren''t good enough. So he either needs to work with what he''s got and find a system that works or buy some more quality in midfield. It''s really not that complicated.

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Another common theme seems to be BJ.   Last season he seemed to bring the worst out of Howson,  as a pairing they were ineffective and Howson looked particularly poor.

 

Come the start of this season and we get to the tettey/fer/howson partnership and Howson starts to show his truly ability.   BJ comes back in and howsons effectiveness drops off.   

 

Howson then gets injured and in a BJ / Fer combo the exciting emerging talent shown by Fer pales. 

 

 

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Another common theme seems to be BJ.   Last season he seemed to bring the worst out of Howson,  as a pairing they were ineffective and Howson looked particularly poor.

 

Come the start of this season and we get to the tettey/fer/howson partnership and Howson starts to show his truly ability.   BJ comes back in and howsons effectiveness drops off.   

 

Howson then gets injured and in a BJ / Fer combo the exciting emerging talent shown by Fer pales. 

 

 

[/quote]

I know and I feel sorry for the guy. It''s a shame some of our other players don''t have the same attitude and work ethic as Bradders but he''s simply not Premier league quality and can''t be given the responsibility of being the last man in front of the back four. He''s actually played better games for us in a more advanced role and scored a few goals in pre season, but Hughton has reverted him back to a defensive midfielder and he''s not got the passing ability or calmness on the ball to play that role.

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Been a problem for longer than this season. All too often we have very few options when we need to pass the ball. Players do not make the runs ahead for that important pass in the way Drury, Steeno, Edworthy, Hucks and the like used to because we no longer play those kind of tactics.In some ways BJ reminds me of 3 Lungs.Injuries will have some impact on results and confidence as pointed out by the effective partnerships that were developing but have had the pause button hit.

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