Worthy v Hughton

[lake district canary 4,531]

Leaving aside Lambert, who had a glorious three years with us, the season I think back to with some dismay is the season in the premiership with Worthington.   2004/5 We were dire all season, rallying only near the end when it was too late.  Lots of low scoring draws and losses, plenty of goals against, not scoring many.  We were paying lip service to the premiership with a manager who didn''t really have a clue how to manage in the premiership - and we went down, with a meltdown by the fans the following season. 2012/13.   Near the bottom, but never really down and out like it looked with Worthy, finished  a creditable 11th  and didn''t we enjoy the ten match unbeaten run last season.   2013/14.   Similar story? Could avoid the drop and finish mid-table again.So why is the expectation so great?   Why is mid-table respectability not enough?    We all know we liked the last few weeks of 2005 apart from the last day, because we had a cause and we nearly did enough to stay up.  But Hughton has delivered one successful season and is on course to deliver another.    The football is not great, but then ask the teams below us about their clubs style of football - and they would swap with our position any day of the week.  We''re level with Swansalona and Bertville = 10th - and their fans are not happy either.   Worthy got hounded out in the end - because he couldn''t deliver.   Hughton is delivering - and some fans are up in arms. I know we''re struggling to score, but we''re picking up points.So it seems our being successful is not enough. Strange.

[TIL 1010 4,718]

Please don''t tell me Lakey that you are expecting a sensible debate on this ? [:(] I predict a slang fest and all you are doing is setting factions of this messageboard against each other.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Mid table respectability would be great wouldn''t it. Only we''re not really heading for that are we.

It''s widely acknowledged that the end of our season is a write off. The last 4 games are a nightmare, add to that a trip to Craven Cottage in the 5th from last game and it brings about a scenario needing us to have enough points to survive after 33 games.

Yes, everyone has to play each other twice, but some of our rivals have already played some of the top sides twice and we''re in no form at all and are dropping points in games where we would be looking to take more at an alarming rate.

So that leaves us 10 games to pick up another 14 points +.

Reckon we can score an average of 1.4 points per game over the next 10? No? Neither do I.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Please don''t tell me Lakey that you are expecting a sensible debate on this ? [:(] I predict a slang fest and all you are doing is setting factions of this messageboard against each other.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not.  I trust there are enough who want to debate sensibly and if anyone doesn''t, frankly that''s their problem.  The above is part of the conundrum we''re all in  - what constitutes success for our club? 

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I blame the Lambert years, and fans with short memories.

 

Under Lambert we had three of the most intoxicating and enjoyable 3 years you could ever hope to have watching a football club.  Overhauling a seemingly impossible gap to catch Leeds and win L1 after the disastrous start to the season.  settling down initially in the Champ but then finding things were catching fire, and edging closer to auto promotion, losing to Swansea near the end but then finding our fate was back in our hands, the amazing game against Derby when we took the lead only to be pegged back twice with Simmos unbelievable winner deep in stoppage time, the fantastic evening we clinched promotion for sure.  And then back into the Prem with worrying memories of how ineffective we were under Worthy, but getting that first away win and the sheer pleasure of going to grounds like Old Trafford or White Hart Lane and being able to play competitively against the best teams in the country.  You couldn''t script it.

 

The last couple of years have been a let down by comparison, it would have been almost impossible to be anything else.  If Lambert was still here and producing the same results he''s got with Villa this season I think plenty of fans on here would have turned against him.  I see people talking on here about some performances this season being the worst they''ve seen in over 20 years etc and I think they''re crazy, but the answer is they''ve simply forgotten how truly dire we were for much of that time, grinding out results in the mid-table of the 2nd tier of English football, feeling totally outclassed whenever we came up against a Prem team in the cup etc.

[Indy_Bones 441]

The key difference for me LDC is that at least we TRIED to get something out of most games under Worthy, and had it not been for the total no-show in the final game of that season - we''d have stayed up.Hughton has a FAR better squad relatively speaking than Worthy did, yet despite this is playing some of the worst football I''ve ever seen - not just from us - but from ANY club in this league!Worthy ran out of ideas, whereas Hughton doesn''t seem to have had many from day one, what''s even more frustrating is that we''ve brought in genuinely good players (rather than some of the crap we got under NW) and the manager is either mis-using them or playing in such a way that it''s almost impossible for them to perform anywhere near their best (e.g when he kept trying to play Howson in a defensive role!)Under Worthy it was a steady decline, with Hughton it''s been s**t from the beginning...Maybe expectations are skewed and unfair at times, but frankly I''d be happy with mid-table mediocrity - if we got some decent football to watch in the process - and that is NOT going to happen under Hughton (whereas we had some good patches of this with NW).

[Bill 1,788]

it is all backs to the wall dire stuffsomething you might have expected in a giant killing cup game in the 60''s, away at Arsenal with 10 men or in the last few minutes of a vital ''six pointer'' but this is every game from kick offthe players have had a long break and Hughton has just had a chance to work with the players ......... and yet(perhaps that was the problem)maybe he should go back to Dubai with the other two and leave the players to sort it out themselves

[Houston Canary 0]

LSD, your happy clappy clap trap qrap OP ignores the promotion season under Nigel W.

It''s a bogus debate from the start. That and every other reason criticising this thread are spot on. Your apparent intent, your blinders, your misguided points all indicate you are bored and easily amused. Didn''t you have any friends?

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"] 

2004/5 We were dire all season.  Lots of low scoring draws and losses, plenty of goals against, not scoring many.  We were paying lip service to the premiership with a manager who didn''t really have a clue how to manage in the premiership

Worthy got hounded out in the end - because he couldn''t deliver.   Hughton is delivering - and some fans are up in arms. I know we''re struggling to score, but we''re picking up points.So it seems our being successful is not enough. Strange.

[/quote]

Are you sure the first paragraph isn''t describing this season? Add to the list, the lack of creativity, invites pressure from the opposition, turgid non-flowing football, cannot do the basics etc...

The problem LDC is like others have said; we aren''t heading for mid table. We have 4-5 teams in a row at the end of the season that some of our rivals have played already and still our rivals remain close to us in the table. So with their prospects of playing teams with less quality than the ones we will be slugging it out with after game 33/34, they should have a distinct advantage over us for getting more points on the board than us in those last 4-5 games.

I think if the current 4 teams carry on in keeping it tight amongst them until the end of the season (which is mainly the reason I think it''s also, so tight at the bottom this year) there won''t be any "on the beach" (if it this even exists) big teams during that run in.

[SeattleCanary 0]

*Current TOP 4 teams* - i wish there was an edit button!

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"] 

2004/5 We were dire all season.  Lots of low scoring draws and losses, plenty of goals against, not scoring many.  We were paying lip service to the premiership with a manager who didn''t really have a clue how to manage in the premiership

Worthy got hounded out in the end - because he couldn''t deliver.   Hughton is delivering - and some fans are up in arms. I know we''re struggling to score, but we''re picking up points.So it seems our being successful is not enough. Strange. [/quote]

Are you sure the first paragraph isn''t describing this season? Add to the list, the lack of creativity, invites pressure from the opposition, turgid non-flowing football, cannot do the basics etc...

The problem LDC is like others have said; we aren''t heading for mid table. We have 4-5 teams in a row at the end of the season that some of our rivals have played already and still our rivals remain close to us in the table. So with their prospects of playing teams with less quality than the ones we will be slugging it out with after game 33/34, they should have a distinct advantage over us for getting more points on the board than us in those last 4-5 games.

I think if the current 4 teams carry on in keeping it tight amongst them until the end of the season (which is mainly the reason I think it''s also, so tight at the bottom this year) there won''t be any "on the beach" (if it this even exists) big teams during that run in.

[/quote]

We don''t know if we''re heading for mid-table or not.  It could go either way, I was really thinking that with Worthy we were down and out most of that season, but with Hughton both seasons we have been above the relegation zone most of the time, but he gets little credit for that.  I get the difficult run in, but the fixtures before that are better and we simply have to carry on taking points off the teams around us - as we have all season.

PS, I know Seattle isn''t near Houston, but if you are passing by there anytime, stick two fingers up as you go past for me. Cheers....

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]We don''t know if we''re heading for mid-table or not.  It could go either way, I was really thinking that with Worthy we were down and out most of that season, but with Hughton both seasons we have been above the relegation zone most of the time, but he gets little credit for that.  I get the difficult run in, but the fixtures before that are better and we simply have to carry on taking points off the teams around us - as we have all season.

PS, I know Seattle isn''t near Houston, but if you are passing by there anytime, stick two fingers up as you go past for me. Cheers....

[/quote]

Thats fair enough LDC. I too hope we start to chalk up those points as aggressively and quickly as possible so that at the end of March we can all kick back and relax, and enjoy the run in. 

I''ll hand it to CH for keeping us out of the bottom 3. I think the thing that gets me is although I know typically we are a bottom 6 team on paper, its the fact that with a little application and effort on the pitch we could and with the way other are performing; should be punching above our weight and have points similar to that of Southampton. If 24 points was the result of us giving 110% as a team, and tapping into the players maximum potential, I think there wouldn''t be a sole who could rightly moan.

p.s. You do know over here its just the middle finger thats offensive? They don''t get the whole 2 fingers thing. Unless of course it wasn''t meant that way [:P]

Added to that I like HoustonCanary, and agree with a lot of the points that he/she makes. Maybe you guys can just Skype and make up? After all we support the same team!