It's all too regimented

[Matt Juler 148]

I must admit I found the game last night entertaining, especially for a game that finished goalless, but what really stood out to me was just how regimented we are.Without fail every single throw in must be taken by the fullbacks.  Forget a quick throw from the winger to a forward, or even the winger to the full back to keep some momentum, it''s always a case of slowing it down and letting either Martin or Olsson take the throw.Keeping with throw ins, why do we always allow the ball to go out of play in the defensive third when there''s ample opportunities to play the ball?  More often than not we end up directly losing the ball from the subsequent throw in whereas we originally has possession and could build from the back.Set plays.  As we all know, any corner or free kick HAS to be taken by Mr Snodgrass.  Why is this, does Hughton believe no one else can produce a decent delivery or attempt at goal?  I can certainly remember all the decent freekicks and deliveries from Pilks from a couple of seasons ago.  Teams don''t even need to second guess what''s going to happen, the dummy runner for any freekick gets ignored as teams know Snodgrass will be the one having the shot / delivering the ball.It''s all about safety first, doing exactly the same thing over and over again as there is now an ingrained fear that taking a risk, doing something different, could be the catalyst for a disaster, not the catalyst for success.  Some people are clearly happy with this and are blinded by being 12th in the best league in the world, but these same people were also saying Palace were nailed on for relegation and look where they are now.I once had someone work for me who had been in the forces for 10 years, he was good at doing exactly what he was told but had lost the ability to think for himself, or attempt to do something that may not work.  I''m now seeing exactly the same in NCFC, it''s all too regimented.

[lake district canary 4,531]

In my world, people don''t perform well if they are low on confidence.  Performance of any kind is one where you have to be on top of your game to achieve anything and if you drop below that high level then you start to struggle.   That is all we are seeing imo.  Some players who are lacking in confidence owing to the severe pressure of a the league where super rich clubs can hand out a hiding at the drop of a hat, perhaps this season more than any other.  Injuries have affected continuity and development too.  I''m not inventing excuses, but  the first thing that goes when you are tight is your ability to move.  Hughton likes his team to be organised, but lets be fair, so do most managers.   Its a combination of many factors, so I don''t think there is any one reason why we''re finding it difficult, but for me confidence is one of the main things.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

Agree the tactics do appear that way and have done for some time. The surprise element would be something to incoporate in future games.However this season Redmond has taken a few corners, some very well placed. Hasn''t Murphy taken 1 or 2 as well?BTW not all forces personnel come out lacking the ability to think for themselves; it depends on the individual as much as what their role was.

[Bill 1,788]

"It''s all about safety first, doing exactly the same thing over and

over again as there is now an ingrained fear that taking a risk, doing

something different, could be the catalyst for a disaster, not the

catalyst for success."

"Far better we lose one nil than risk everything and lose two nil"  - Chris Hughton Aug 2012

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"]"It''s all about safety first, doing exactly the same thing over and

over again as there is now an ingrained fear that taking a risk, doing

something different, could be the catalyst for a disaster, not the

catalyst for success.""Far better we lose one nil than risk everything and lose two nil"  - Chris Hughton Aug 2012[/quote]Don''t accept that for one minute.  He was explaining why it is better to keep things tight at 1-0 down and hope to nick a goal back, than going all out to get the goal back and risk losing a second goal and then making it impossible to get back in to the game. Not quite the quote you give  -or its meaning.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]"It''s all about safety first, doing exactly the same thing over and

over again as there is now an ingrained fear that taking a risk, doing

something different, could be the catalyst for a disaster, not the

catalyst for success.""Far better we lose one nil than risk everything and lose two nil"  - Chris Hughton Aug 2012[/quote]Don''t accept that for one minute.  He was explaining why it is better to keep things tight at 1-0 down and hope to nick a goal back, than going all out to get the goal back and risk losing a second goal and then making it impossible to get back in to the game. Not quite the quote you give  -or its meaning.

[/quote]

Where is that quote from?

[Bill 1,788]

err, I made that quote up as a pis take of Hughton''s whole defeatist approachso I think I do know it''s meaning

ps what is your excuse this time ?

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Maybe Matt could tweet the members of our armed forces and suggest they get out whilst they can still think for themselves...

 

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"]err, I made that quote up as a pis take of Hughton''s whole defeatist approachso I think I do know it''s meaningps what is your excuse this time ?[/quote]p. take or not, you can''t quote somebody and then say afterwards you made it up.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]err, I made that quote up as a pis take of Hughton''s whole defeatist approachso I think I do know it''s meaningps what is your excuse this time ?[/quote]p. take or not, you can''t quote somebody and then say afterwards you made it up.

[/quote]I think you''ll find I just did(on both matters)

[TIL 1010 4,717]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe Matt could tweet the members of our armed forces and suggest they get out whilst they can still think for themselves...

[/quote]

If he sorts them out some rail tickets to get home maybe he will get to be the standard bearer at this years Service of Rememberance.

 

[Matt Juler 148]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe Matt could tweet the members of our armed forces and suggest they get out whilst they can still think for themselves...

[/quote]

If he sorts them out some rail tickets to get home maybe he will get to be the standard bearer at this years Service of Rememberance.

 

[/quote]I think that probably clashes with a Belgium market so I won''t be in London, but a great idea none the less.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I have some people who work for me who''ve never been anywhere near our armed forces, but who want to be told exactly what to do and would rather not use their initiative at all.  Lack of confidence is a big factor.

 

I agree about letting the ball go out for a throw in deep in our half, a pet hate of mine. it often puts us under more pressure than a pass to a colleague.

 

Another pet hate is when a player has possession in the middle of our half and comes under pressure but has a clear chance to play the ball upfield, instead he plays it back to the keeper who hoofs it upfield from a less attacking position.

 

Sometimes I wonder if players are feeling the pressure to play safer passes like this because it won''t show up as an incomplete pass in their stats.

[Bill 1,788]

"Sometimes I wonder if players are feeling the pressure to play safer

passes like this because it won''t show up as an incomplete pass in their

stats."that is pricelesss !however aside from pulling the pee out of Saddo.com the players are sticking to a formula drilled into them by Hughton, hence the same throw ins, players not moving, so the need to pass backremove Hughton and you remove the shackles

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="City1st"]"Sometimes I wonder if players are feeling the pressure to play safer passes like this because it won''t show up as an incomplete pass in their stats."
that is pricelesss !
however aside from pulling the pee out of Saddo.com the players are sticking to a formula drilled into them by Hughton, hence the same throw ins, players not moving, so the need to pass back

remove Hughton and you remove the shackles

[/quote]

Of course, it''s all about Hughton..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Do you think players pay attention to their personal stats ?  No, of course not, same as actors never read their reviews.

[Tommie Tippee 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]err, I made that quote up as a pis take of Hughton''s whole defeatist approachso I think I do know it''s meaningps what is your excuse this time ?[/quote]p. take or not, you can''t quote somebody and then say afterwards you made it up.

[/quote]

You the police or something? Hardly a serious crime making up a pointless quote.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

This isn''t Cricket where batsmen try to protect their average.

Do you know what Paul Scholes pass completion rate for his whole career was? I don''t and I bet he doesn''t either.

If there is a player on our books that is playing safe passes to protect his personal stats then please show him the door before Friday please. Not that I think there is for a split second.

[Alfie54 76]

What about Ruddy''s goal kicks every time to Snoddy in the air on the right. I reckon he wins 3/10, and of those three 1? ends up with our player

[Mr Brownstone 0]

It''s because there isn''t a better outlet, and whilst not particularly successful it''s better losing possession there than in the centre of the park.

Of course, we could always play it out from the back from time to time.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]This isn''t Cricket where batsmen try to protect their average.

Do you know what Paul Scholes pass completion rate for his whole career was? I don''t and I bet he doesn''t either.

If there is a player on our books that is playing safe passes to protect his personal stats then please show him the door before Friday please. Not that I think there is for a split second.[/quote]

exactly !unfortunately this mumbo jumbo seems to have over excited the various Colins and Trevors who have attached themselves to the game but cannot quite grasp what it is all about - nor that such sh ite is worthless if only as it is subjective ie the pimply fred deciding what is a pass and what is a clearanceno grasp that a bad pass might force a player into losing the ball, whereas in Saddo.com the first player is accredited with a completed pass and the second a failed passfar better when these saddoes stuck to watching top gear or reading trainspotters weekly

[City 2nd 191]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2014-01-29 9:44 PM:

Maybe Matt could tweet the members of our armed forces and suggest they get out whilst they can still think for themselves...

He doesn''t need too - thousands are about to be made redundant - and they didn''t think that one for themselves!

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

Quote from unbiased Guardian journalist (and West Ham fan) Jacob Steinberg on Monday''s podcast:"Norwich are a weird side because I think they have a lot of good players - Snodgrass, Fer, Hooper, Redmond, and so on, and Olsson at left-back. But they are just very rigid under Chris Hughton. I saw them at Crystal Palace when they had about one shot and scored and nicked a draw, but there was nothing inventive about them at all, and there should be because they have good players. But they do seem to be able to grind out results."

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Hughton missed his career as a pharmacist where he could have worked to prescription ad infinitum.

I got slated months ago for suggesting Hughton is a latent bully. Yes, he comes across as a nice chap but behind the scenes I get the impression he is a regimented and stifling control freak. We play to rote. He limits self expression, he clearly nominates who does what, where players play on the park and what happens where.

Anyone remember Ghostface, the incessantly yapping dog belonging to The Benefits, in Harry and Paul. That''s him constantly lecturing from the coaching area, if you don''t believe me his whiny yap is a constant background noise on the Radio Norfolk home commentary.

Hughton, pick your team, give them the tactics and let them get on with it. If you need to interject, less is more, and you do have subs and can change games by methods other than by verbal browbeating. But FFS trust the players, allow some expression and play creative players, in position.

I accept Hughton is here for the long term but I certainly won''t be going to watch his style of football and made that decision last year.

[FenwayFrank 2,450]

Thats a good quote, we play the most igid 442 you will ever see in my opinion

[FenwayFrank 2,450]

* rigid *

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]This isn''t Cricket where batsmen try to protect their average.

Do you know what Paul Scholes pass completion rate for his whole career was? I don''t and I bet he doesn''t either.

If there is a player on our books that is playing safe passes to protect his personal stats then please show him the door before Friday please. Not that I think there is for a split second.[/quote]

The point about Paul scholes is a good one - back then stats weren''t in vogue and when he started they were hardly available. Now we have posters on this forum seriously suggesting that Garrido is better than Olsson based purely on their respective stats. Which as I said on that thread just goes to show how it doesn''t work to apply stats to football - Garrido is a much more cautious player and much less likely to play an attacking ball. So his stats show more successful passes but don''t show that he is less effective going forward as a result,

As for the idea that this might influence players if people actually read my post I said I wonder if it does? I wouldn''t be surprised if it has some effect because in my experience if you measure almost anything and rate people on it, it tends to lead to them trying to improve their position.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

[quote user="City 2nd"]nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2014-01-29 9:44 PM:

Maybe Matt could tweet the members of our armed forces and suggest they get out whilst they can still think for themselves...

He doesn''t need too - thousands are about to be made redundant - and they didn''t think that one for themselves![/quote]

 

Does that mean that Matt was right about the shortcomings of the armed forces then?

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,506]

[quote user="Its Character Forming"][quote user="Mr Brownstone"]This isn''t Cricket where batsmen try to protect their average.

Do you know what Paul Scholes pass completion rate for his whole career was? I don''t and I bet he doesn''t either.

If there is a player on our books that is playing safe passes to protect his personal stats then please show him the door before Friday please. Not that I think there is for a split second.[/quote]

The point about Paul scholes is a good one - back then stats weren''t in vogue and when he started they were hardly available. Now we have posters on this forum seriously suggesting that Garrido is better than Olsson based purely on their respective stats. Which as I said on that thread just goes to show how it doesn''t work to apply stats to football - Garrido is a much more cautious player and much less likely to play an attacking ball. So his stats show more successful passes but don''t show that he is less effective going forward as a result,

As for the idea that this might influence players if people actually read my post I said I wonder if it does? I wouldn''t be surprised if it has some effect because in my experience if you measure almost anything and rate people on it, it tends to lead to them trying to improve their position.[/quote]

 

Back in 2008 I spent a day at Colney with my daughter. Much to her excitement we got to see most places including Hucks on the treatment table. One of the most interesting places for me was the classroom and the prozone stats. The guy showing me these told me that on a Monday the players can''t wait to find out their stats from the weekend game. And I''m sure that''s still the case. Stats are just part of the game but from what I saw a bigger part than many would have us believe.

 

 

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

" I wouldn''t be surprised if it has some effect"none bar being regarded as a meaningless joke as they are ................subjective to the nerd who is taken them down and most importantly they take no account of the context they occured inplayer A is involved in a number of tips taps between other players to run down the clock - great ''stats''player B hits a superb 40 yd pass that is just tipped of the attackers toes for a corner - a failed passthis shi  te is only of any use for saddoes who have little grasp of the gamefor any stat to be of any comparable worth then it must be measured without an almost infinite amount of variables thrown in - this sh  ite does not do that

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Ironically I agree with you that stats have very limited use in football. And I wish it were true that people don''t pay much attention to them but I''m afraid that''s wishful thinking on your part.