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Samwam27

If we are performing so badly....

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there are many on here who blame Hughton. He''s taking us backwards, less entertaining football, everyone underperforming, even stars (e.g. RVW) looking a shadow of former glories.And yet we are in 12th. We were in bottom three but now sit in 12th?SO is Hughton taking us backwards, or are the teams in this league much weaker this year, to allow us this comfort?

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We are not comfortable. We are 5 points off the bottom. We needs to be about 7 or 8 clear of the bottom 3 going into the last 4 or 5 games or we will go down.

This "we are 12th so its all ok" business is a nonsense. Fact is we are still very close to the bottom three and in my view if we do dip into the bottom three we do not have enough about us this season to get out of it again.

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[quote user="Samwam27"]there are many on here who blame Hughton. He''s taking us backwards, less entertaining football, everyone underperforming, even stars (e.g. RVW) looking a shadow of former glories.And yet we are in 12th. We were in bottom three but now sit in 12th?SO is Hughton taking us backwards, or are the teams in this league much weaker this year, to allow us this comfort?[/quote]why not watch the games, they will tell you all you need to knowit''s football, not trainspotting

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I agree with you Jim, but I said we''re in 12th, I never said we''re comfortable.As has been said this league is closer than it''s ever been, but with 8 clean sheets and a position I''m more comfortable with than when we were in the bottom three, my question is still valid.If we''ve gone backwards, is our lofty position because the teams around us are much weaker this season?Apart from the occasional suicide days (man C & Liverpool) our defense is just about holding it. It''s just a complete lack of creativity which is damaging our goals

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]We are not comfortable. We are 5 points off the bottom. We needs to be about 7 or 8 clear of the bottom 3 going into the last 4 or 5 games or we will go down.

This "we are 12th so its all ok" business is a nonsense. Fact is we are still very close to the bottom three and in my view if we do dip into the bottom three we do not have enough about us this season to get out of it again.[/quote]

 

I doubt anyone beneath Southampton is comfortable Jim. Sometimes I read your posts and I get the impression you wish we were in the bottom three. I bet part of you does?

 

 

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My guess is we will do enough to stay up but only just about, that will be the time to thank CH for what he has done and move on.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]in my view if we do dip into the bottom three we do not have enough about us this season to get out of it again.[/quote]When Manc City dicked us we were in the bottom 3, and having lost 7-0, with a bagful of injuries to key players and Howtuns name already being bandied about on this forum, we probably might have almost half expected to see a few heads drop but do you know what???? Somehow we did still find enough about ourselves to not only climb out of the bottom three but to put a little distance and a few teams between us because last time I looked we weren''t in the bottom 3 or even in the bottom EIGHT!!!!!!So how you come to your gloomy assumption is beyond me because you are trying to predict something which has already occurred and you''re still managing to get it hopelessly wrong.[:D]

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I keep looking at the fixtures and can not see where the required points a going to come from.

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[quote user="InchY_barn door_wolfswinkel"]I keep looking at the fixtures and can not see where the required points a going to come from.[/quote]Then in the interests of balance do the same for every other team in the bottom 11 places of the table and see if you can see any of them surviving either.

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Interesting dichotomy of fans not seeing where points are coming from to avoid relegation yet expressing extreme disappointment when we have failed to win each week or take a valuable point against Newcastle ...

Make you minds up lads, which is it????

The points will come at a fairly regular yet slow basis, it will be tight but we will be ok

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Interesting dichotomy of fans not seeing where points are coming from to avoid relegation yet expressing extreme disappointment when we have failed to win each week or take a valuable point against Newcastle ...

Make you minds up lads, which is it???? [/quote]Oh good shot sir!!

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Some good posts in this thread.

The one thing I noted after tonight''s fixtures is that we are now above all three of the promoted sides. Maintain that, of course, and we stay up.

I agree with Vanwink. We are battling, struggling, and now the players are having to play against their own fans at times at Carrow Road, such is the lack of support and general air of animosity. We need to get behind the boys and try to stay up and then we can take stock in the summer - my own view is that unless there is improvement in the season''s remainder we really need to consider whether the current management team can take us forward, but ultimately we need to stay in this division and for that we need support not derision from the stands.

For what it''s worth, I see little difference between the quality of our football and that of our rivals. Cardiff, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Hull, West Brom...does anyone seriously think they are better than us?

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Every one of our home games that w e have won has been by a single goal and on a knife edge with the exception of the West Ham game. That match was weird as they were 1 up at HT and played us of the park and we were flattered at the end due to a close call penalty a good free kick and goal in the dying seconds says it all really

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Yes, we are 12th, but, like said, its tight. Anyone who was at Carrow Road on Tuesday night, would''ve seen just how bad we were, especially in the first half. Had we of played like we did against Man Utd, we could''ve won and 3 more points on the board.

I just cannot see where the goals are going to come from to keep us up. Sunderland won again, Villa won and scored 4 goals. I know they conceded 3, but I''d take that. It showed team spirit, something that appears to have been sucked out of our squad. Yes we kept a clean sheet, but we didnt score. 0-0 results for the rest of the season will see us drop.

I too think if we drop into the bottom 3, we won''t be able to lift ourselves back up.

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]Some good posts in this thread.

The one thing I noted after tonight''s fixtures is that we are now above all three of the promoted sides. Maintain that, of course, and we stay up.

I agree with Vanwink. We are battling, struggling, and now the players are having to play against their own fans at times at Carrow Road, such is the lack of support and general air of animosity. We need to get behind the boys and try to stay up and then we can take stock in the summer - my own view is that unless there is improvement in the season''s remainder we really need to consider whether the current management team can take us forward, but ultimately we need to stay in this division and for that we need support not derision from the stands.

For what it''s worth, I see little difference between the quality of our football and that of our rivals. Cardiff, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Hull, West Brom...does anyone seriously think they are better than us?[/quote]

Quite Beefy, pray someone tell me which (at least) 5 of those teams people think are better than us

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Beefy''The one thing I noted after tonight''s fixtures is that we are now above all three of the promoted sides. Maintain that, of course, and we stay up.

I agree with Vanwink. We are battling, struggling, and now the players are having to play against their own fans at times at Carrow Road, such is the lack of support and general air of animosity. We need to get behind the boys and try to stay up and then we can take stock in the summer - my own view is that unless there is improvement in the season''s remainder we really need to consider whether the current management team can take us forward, but ultimately we need to stay in this division and for that we need support not derision from the stands.

For what it''s worth, I see little difference between the quality of our football and that of our rivals. Cardiff, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Hull, West Brom...does anyone seriously think they are better than us? ''

Well said Beefy, we''re doin ok, not great, but ok.Lets support the team.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]We are not comfortable. We are 5 points off the bottom. We needs to be about 7 or 8 clear of the bottom 3 going into the last 4 or 5 games or we will go down.

This "we are 12th so its all ok" business is a nonsense. Fact is we are still very close to the bottom three and in my view if we do dip into the bottom three we do not have enough about us this season to get out of it again.[/quote]

 

I doubt anyone beneath Southampton is comfortable Jim. Sometimes I read your posts and I get the impression you wish we were in the bottom three. I bet part of you does?

 

 

[/quote]

No obviously not Nutty but I would say I think on the basis of the standard of our play this season we don;t deserve to be 12th in the league and I will have no complaints if we get relegated. I kind of feel like we deserve to be relegated because we have stunk out the division for most of the season. We certainly would not be missed that is for sure.

The point I make though is reference to league position is not particularly helpful. the OP expressed the view that we have some comfort due to our league position and I think people taking that view (which possibly appears to include Mcnally although I hope I am very wrong on that) is dangerous because it is so tight that over a 2 or 3 week period we could easily find ourselves dropping half a dozen places in the table. Yes we were in the bottom three before and clawed our way out but can you honestly say that based on what you have seen you believe that this set of players, under this manager, would be able to do so again if we suddenly found ourselves in the bottom 3 going into the last 5 or 6 fixtures?

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"].

The one thing I noted after tonight''s fixtures is that we are now above all three of the promoted sides. Maintain that, of course, and we stay up. [/quote]Not really sure what point you are making there Beefy. Surely that applies to any three teams, and applies to any of our rivals in the bottom half ?!I do not think that anyone is suggesting that there is a huge gulf in class between Norwich and any of the other teams in the ''mix''. But Norwich are the team we see every other week and the one we are most concerned with. My main concern is our lack of goals. 5 in 10 games. On the basis that we are going to need to win at least 5 more games, I''m not entirely sure where the goals are going to come from to secure these victories. Can you, in your heart of hearts see us being able to do what Villa did last night, (score 4 after being 2 down ) ?As far as the support goes, tbh, when you consider some of the dross we''ve been served up this season, I''d say the level of support has held up pretty well. There really has been no sustained booing, negative chanting, or public calls for a change of manager. Incidents like the Snodgrass one on Tues have been remarkably rare, given the circumstances.

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The football in the first half at Newcastle was some of the poorest I''ve seen in a long time, but we''re 12th and 5 points clear of relegation. I can''t see that being anything other than a positive given our recent form.

I get the feeling some fans would rather us be playing poor football and rock bottom of the league just to enhance their dislike of the manager even more. Isn''t it funny that when Norwich are playing badly but get a lucky result they "deserve to be in the bottom 3", but when other teams around us do exactly the same thing it is because of their managers/deserved? Confirmation bias?

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[quote user="I.S."]

I get the feeling some fans would rather us be playing poor football and rock bottom of the league just to enhance their dislike of the manager even more. ?[/quote]Well, all I can say to that, IS is either you mix with some pretty strange people, or you are just making that little gem up to prove your point.Everyone I speak to are desperate for City to do well in this league. Not one has suggested that we''d be better off in the bottom 3, or relegated, to either get rid of Hughton or see us winning some games against weaker opposition.To be fair, of the people I''ve spoken to, there are a number(minority) who back Hughton and even his style of play (if it gets results), the majority feel he''s had long enough, and it''s time for a change. But, EVERYONE wants what''s best for Norwich City . Personally, I do not much care what other teams do. We have it in our own hands to make a decent fist out of being in the Prem. And, I''m afraid (and I know some people will take issue with me over this) we are currently underachieving.

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Beefy SaidSome good posts in this thread.

The one thing I noted after tonight''s fixtures is that we are now above all three of the promoted sides. Maintain that, of course, and we stay up.

I agree with Vanwink. We are battling, struggling, and now the players are having to play against their own fans at times at Carrow Road, such is the lack of support and general air of animosity. We need to get behind the boys and try to stay up and then we can take stock in the summer - my own view is that unless there is improvement in the season''s remainder we really need to consider whether the current management team can take us forward, but ultimately we need to stay in this division and for that we need support not derision from the stands.

For what it''s worth, I see little difference between the quality of our football and that of our rivals. Cardiff, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Hull, West Brom...does anyone seriously think they are better than us?

Agree with this. As much as I want CH to develop with we must take a long hard look in the summer. Look at the difference at Man City when Pellegrini took over from the rigid Mancini. Similar squad but different approach has brought dividends.

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Reggie, I refer you to Jim Smith''s post a couple above yours - and that''s just on this thread...

" I kind of feel like we deserve to be relegated because we have stunk out the division for most of the season."

I''m sure everybody wants us to do well in the long term, but I''ve seen multiple people who state they would rather us do badly under Hughton (results-wise, performances are already pitiful) in order for him to be sacked. I hate to point out the obvious, but if we had lost our last two games as requested we would not be far off the bottom 3.

Also, with regard to making things up I notice you like to throw this accusation around and then run and hide when people point out your hypocrisy.

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[quote user="I.S."] but if we had lost our last two games as requested we would not be far off the bottom 3.

Also, with regard to making things up I notice you like to throw this accusation around and then run and hide when people point out your hypocrisy.[/quote]Sorry, IS; What is this ''hypocrisy'' you speak of ?  Please be more specific. I''ve never run and hid from anything in my life. Perhaps you are falling into Nige''s well worn trap of accusing people of  lying, then when challenged for examples, is found wanting ?And who ''requested'' that we lose our last 2 games ?

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Football is a results based business.4 from 2 with two clean sheets and clear of the drop.That''s what matters.  All the childish whining about being entertained and concerned is pathetic.

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[quote user="I.S."]Reggie, I refer you to Jim Smith''s post a couple above yours - and that''s just on this thread...

" I kind of feel like we deserve to be relegated because we have stunk out the division for most of the season."

I''m sure everybody wants us to do well in the long term, but I''ve seen multiple people who state they would rather us do badly under Hughton (results-wise, performances are already pitiful) in order for him to be sacked. I hate to point out the obvious, but if we had lost our last two games as requested we would not be far off the bottom 3.

Also, with regard to making things up I notice you like to throw this accusation around and then run and hide when people point out your hypocrisy.[/quote]

Erm where in that post do I say I would prefer to see us do badly? I just said I don''t feel like we deserve to be 12th and in some ways I think we deserve to be relegated. Does not mean I want us to be. I do however think that in some ways looking at the headline of us being 12th in the league risks us being complacent at present so in some ways it''s not helpful in he sense that there is a risk it hides the seriousness of our predicament!

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We are seriously riding our luck at the moment tbh!

The argument is not purely about entertainment but that a better style of football would inherently bring better results.

why do you go to football if it is not for entertainment?

To say it is pathetic is frankly well....

pathetic!

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Jim, I don''t think anyone believes we are not in a serious predicament. One look at the league table will tell us that, regardless of position.

However, it''s the same for any number of teams in the bottom 9 this season. I would far rather be positive about the fact we are 12th and 5 points clear despite being appalling for a lot of the season, than be in someone like Cardiff/West Ham''s shoes.

The fact we are 12th is because we deserve to be 12th. I cannot get my head around the point that you think we deserve to be relegated - does this not apply to the teams below us as well?

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A better style of football would bring more entertainment, but absolutely no proof of better results. You only have to compare Stoke and Blackpool/Wigan to see that''s patently not true.

I absolutely hate what the Premier League has done to our top division, but I can understand those who think the most important thing is to stay in the league at all costs at our current stage of development. The key is whether we are seeing progress in terms of quality and style of play.

If there''s none at the end of the season then the time will be right to make a change, but we have to accept that it''s probably too late for any manager to come in and turn around our style of play AND get results now. In which case, Hughton is doing okay and we need to get behind the team and manager for the remainder of the season.

Booing our own players/team after a 0-0 draw is going to be counter-productive at best, wouldn''t you agree?

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I think what Jim is possibly getting at, IS  (dont wish to put words in his mouth !) and certainly I feel this way, is that if we do perchance get relegated this season, no-one will be able to say that it was not deserved, ''we wuz unlucky'', there are 3 worse teams than us, or any other such guff.And, I''ll agree with your point that we are, currently, the 12th best performing team in the Prem. The table does not lie, and nor will it lie on May 18th.I think that what many people are very aware of is how fragile a 5 point cushion is, and how in a couple of weeks things could look a whole lot less ''comfortable''. Which, in fairness was the first point you made in your posting.

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