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Ray

Is this where the problem lies?

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Part of Snoddy''s public apology was; "''When it does not go right there is no-one really more disappointed than myself. I don''t think straight for days on end."

IMO the key part being, I don''t think straight for days on end.

My question is; How does that help matters? How does not thinking straight for days on end help him, or any other player for that matter, overcome his disappointment, how does not thinking straight help at the training ground, how does not thinking straight help in his next game, how does not thinking straight help team spirit?

My answer is, It doesn''t.

Football very rarely, in my experience, embraces what I call Mindset Management, what others call psychology. I am at a loss to understand why, when it is a proven improver of performance and subsequent results.

My next question is, What help to NCFC provide to our players in this area.

My next answer is, None

My final question, and I have mo answer, is, Why?

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Most clubs have optional psychology sessions where they are helped to deal with the ''pressures'' of being a footballer and to help them get into the right frame of mind. Whether it helps that much....maybe

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I''m with Ray on this one.  Sports psychology is completely undervalued by and large in football in this country.  People are starting to make inroads into this, but other sports have been using them for decades.   Imo it should be a part of a footballer''s job to develop a better understanding of what could make them perform better.   The methods are tried and tested in sports and all kinds of performance, in sports and music.

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He''s just trying to articulate how passionate he is/how much he cares. I doubt it''s affecting his performances anywhere near as much as his injury he claims to have been carrying.

''The problem'' is a rigid zonal formation which stifles any attacking play by relying on the individual player to do all the work because there''s never enough options to pass to or space created to move into and a strange "Just stand in front of the attacker in numbers backing off, ffs don''t tackle or pressure" style of defending.

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Firstly, how do you know that the club doesn''t provide coaching in this area, or are you just assuming?And I can''t believe we are picking away to this depth!Players who are playing in the toughest league in the world will set themselves high standards, demanding the best physical and mental performance from themselves. So of course when they don''t feel that they have given their best, or perhaps feel they have been given unfair criticism when they have given their best, there will always be a period of self analysis.Any player that just shrugs a loss off and says "Oh well" really isn''t likely to be playing at the highest level.Snoddy is an honest lad, don''t assume that to be weakness.

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Mrs Miggins,

Some do, some don''t and the key here is the optional bit.

The brain plays a greater part in the game than anything else, let''s face it, none of us can put one foot in front of the other without instruction from the brain, let alone play free flowing football.

Yet the players are not contracted to ''train'' in this area but are contracted to train in the physical side of the game, just don''t get it personally.

If they don''t turn up for training they get fined, yet they can publicly admit they don''t think straight for days on end and the club do s*d all to help.

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So Ray, do you know for definite that the club provides no sporting psychology support?

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[quote user="Ray"]The brain plays a greater part in the game than anything else[/quote]But it doesn''t seem to be a requirement on here Ray. [:D]

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Morty,

I know. If I was assuming I would say so.

I''m afraid many don''t know how to demand the best mental performance from themselves, this is true in all walks of life, not just football.

I''m not havinga a go at Snoddy and I admire his honesty and see it as a strengthy and yes there should be self analysis, however the fact he says he doesn''t think straight for days, emphasises the point he has not been given the skills to use his brain to his best advantage. This is where the club, could and imo should, step in.

This type of player support is now compulsory at the Academy level.

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[quote user="Ray"]Morty,

I know. If I was assuming I would say so.

I''m afraid many don''t know how to demand the best mental performance from themselves, this is true in all walks of life, not just football.

I''m not havinga a go at Snoddy and I admire his honesty and see it as a strengthy and yes there should be self analysis, however the fact he says he doesn''t think straight for days, emphasises the point he has not been given the skills to use his brain to his best advantage. This is where the club, could and imo should, step in.

This type of player support is now compulsory at the Academy level.[/quote]A quick google has revealed this :-http://www.mind-span.co.uk/interviews/A Sports physiologist who has worked with the club in the past. Are you saying that the club has changed its policy and no longer uses them?

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Morty,

Yes, when Drake worked with the first team (which was about six or more years ago and not since), he represented a company performing this sort of work globally and mainly in the world of commerce. He now works for himself.

One or two players have taken it upon themselves to work on the area of Mindset with a.n.other and I believe Drake has also done some work with one or two players but there is no club committment to Mindset Management, unfortnately this is common throughout the league(s).

I am convinced the first club to really take this seriously and employ the right people, as in most areas of life there are good and bad, will take giant leap forward.

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You only need to look at penalties to see how important frame of mind is.

Really, smashing the ball past a standing keeper from 12 yards should be easy, I can do it, you can do it, but under pressure, a lot struggle.

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But if you are saying that employing a psychologist is compulsory for academies, then surely Norwich City employ one?Whilst I am not discrediting the concept, I really think that if the club thought it was of benefit to the first team, then they wouldn''t hesitate to go down this avenue.I think you are confusing Robert Snodgrass''s need to show the fans how much he cares about his performances, with a badly motivated, physiologically down player. You rarely see him hide on the football pitch and he gives 100%, what more do you want from him?

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Absolute Mr Smih

As Henry Ford said, and I paraphase;

"I you think you can do a thing, or whether you think you can not do a thing, you will be right."

He thought he could bring a mass produed car to the people at less than £100, he did because he thought he could. Just because you think you can doesn''t gaurantee success but it don''t half tilt things your way.

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Morty,

They do at the Academy, for the academy players, who attend compulsory sessions because it is a requirement of being a Category 1 Academy.

There is no such requirement from the league for adults and yes you''d think that the club would go down this avenue wouldn''t you. Just about every other sport does, rugby in particular, but for some reason they think they know better, just ask the top 4 male tennis players in the world if it works for them, ask the British Lions and the list goes on.

My point really has nothing to do with Snoddy and how much he cares and his passion, etc. it is about the fact he admits to not thinking straight, I apportion no blame or criticism of him, it''s just what he said highlighted the issue for me.

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[quote user="Ray"]Morty,

They do at the Academy, for the academy players, who attend compulsory sessions because it is a requirement of being a Category 1 Academy.

There is no such requirement from the league for adults and yes you''d think that the club would go down this avenue wouldn''t you. Just about every other sport does, rugby in particular, but for some reason they think they know better, just ask the top 4 male tennis players in the world if it works for them, ask the British Lions and the list goes on.

My point really has nothing to do with Snoddy and how much he cares and his passion, etc. it is about the fact he admits to not thinking straight, I apportion no blame or criticism of him, it''s just what he said highlighted the issue for me.[/quote]Honestly, for me Ray, its a throwaway phrase to try and defuse the situation with the fans, and reiterate how much he cares about his performances.I wouldn''t read so much into it, if I were you.

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Morty,

You may be right, however if he knew what I know (how patronising is that but I hope you get the point), he wouldn;t have reacted in the way he did in the first place and dare I say it, would be taking better corners.

It''s not impossible to explain everything on here but it ain''t far short, so please understand why I don''t.

Getting late for me, I have a busy day tomorrow and the U21 v Arsenal game at CR tomorrow night followed bya beer or two, so time for some kip.

Enjoyed the debate - thanks guys and gals

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[quote user="Ray"]Morty,

You may be right, however if he knew what I know (how patronising is that but I hope you get the point), he wouldn;t have reacted in the way he did in the first place and dare I say it, would be taking better corners.

It''s not impossible to explain everything on here but it ain''t far short, so please understand why I don''t.

Getting late for me, I have a busy day tomorrow and the U21 v Arsenal game at CR tomorrow night followed bya beer or two, so time for some kip.

Enjoyed the debate - thanks guys and gals[/quote]Errrr, yeah?

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There''s a simple solution to all of this, Let other players take some of the set pieces, especially if Pilks is playing. Every player is entitled to an off day, but the insistence of keep digging a hole when things arnt going well just frustrates everyone and obviously the player himself.

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Morty,

It was getting late and to explain what I mean in a few words on this board is nigh on impossible but I stand by my main point, which is well informed, the club don''t provide Mindset Management support. I think it''s because they don''t understand how powerful it is. Our brain is at work 24/7, yet very few people spend any time thinking about how they think, The nature of your thinking is far more important than what you think about

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I find it hard to believe the club, a nationally known mid-table Premier League club, don''t have access to a psychologist Ray, very hard indeed...

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ncfcstar,

Anyone has access, whether they do access is a different story.

My point is it should, imo, be as compulsory as turning up for training,

Saying, "I don''t think straight for days" is akin to saying, I cant be bothered to train so I never last a full 90 minutes.

Lack of understanding of the power of the brain and its influence on performance is common place, it''s not Snoddy alone, it''s just that what he said brought it home to me.

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[quote user="morty"]You rarely see him hide on the football pitch and he gives 100%, what more do you want from him?[/quote]There''s nothing more any reasonable fan can expect from him.If his performances aren''t good enough on a consistent basis then it''s up to the manager to address this either via coaching and support, or by deciding that we need a new player to replace them, but as long as the player is doing what they have been asked and giving 100% in the process then they can''t be faulted for it, even if we can get frustrated with the performances at times.And no, this is NOT a subtle dig at Hughton either (just before anyone suggests it is).

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="morty"]You rarely see him hide on the football pitch and he gives 100%, what more do you want from him?[/quote]There''s nothing more any reasonable fan can expect from him.If his performances aren''t good enough on a consistent basis then it''s up to the manager to address this either via coaching and support, or by deciding that we need a new player to replace them, but as long as the player is doing what they have been asked and giving 100% in the process then they can''t be faulted for it, even if we can get frustrated with the performances at times.And no, this is NOT a subtle dig at Hughton either (just before anyone suggests it is).[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. It pains me to see and hear what some fans say when slagging off Snoddy. He''s definitely off form and not quite right this season and full marks for his effort and desire to keep trying, but I think hughton should say "take a break, chill out and rest" instead of picking him for every bloody game.

What irks me though is the actual hatred directed at Snoddy. Mostly for falling over (trying to win free kicks for his team - did we complain about holt doing that?) and for his crossing and set plays being poor. I''m sorry but none of these things deserve such vitriol from your own fans. He gives his all every match, and while effort alone is not enough, you can''t direct such anger and hatred towards a player for this. Sometimes I wonder if its because he''s stood up for himself with fans on more than one occasion, instead of being the good little ''entertainer'' and keeping quiet?

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

Football is played in the mind, not on the pitch

 

 

[/quote]
Then a lot of people are being scammed with those season ticket thingys.....

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TGMD,

Absolutely right. You can''t do a thing until it first exists in your head.

Imagine, I know it''s hard at the moment, but imagine, we had a creative attacking midfielder who picks up the ball in the centre circle and finds himself in space, he looks up and sees both wingers running into space, he sees two strikers on a run past the oppo''s stactic defence and of course he sees two other midfielders to his left and right and he knows he has defenders behind him and a goalkeeper behind them, on top of that he sees their keeper on the edge of his box. He has a myriad of options, which one does he take? Ultimately, it will be the one that most satisfies the values and beliefs he holds, however before that happens, he uses his imagination to weigh up the options, his brain will assess the likely outcome of each option and once his choice is made his brain will then send the appropriate instructions to all points south to perform the physical actions needed to fulfil his choice.

All of this takes place in a few milliseconds.

The choice made may differ depending on all sorts of factors, the current score, the time in the game, what he considers to be the skill of the player he would be passing to, the weather and pitch conditions, the instructions from the manager, etc. etc.

TGMD, as you say football is played in the mind. Although I prefer to say, it is first played in the mind and then acted out on the pitch, so what we as fans see, is essentially what is going on in the minds of the players, which is why we sometimes become disenchanted with what we see, it''s because the players make different choices than the ones we would make.

How often do I hear fans say, if I were xxxxxx I would have played it out to the left not the right. Well if you were xxxxxx you would have done exactly the same as him, as you would have the same thinking as him, what you really mean is, if xxxxxx was me he would have played it out to the left.

Now on the basis every move a player makes is first fashioned by his thinking, why is it there is no compulsory requirement for players to exercise this muscle (and yes I know the brain isn''t a muscle) under the same level of instruction as they exercise their other muscles? Why is it the club employs all sorts of coaches and physios to work on the players bodies to hone them to get the max from them, which must cost thousands if not millions, yet ignore the brain, where all football is first played and which controls all the other muscles?

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