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Bill

The squad is good enough

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If the squad is as bad as some on here will have then I very much doubt that the addition of a couple of more players would have made that much difference.The club has done what I stated a few weeks back, brought in a couple of loanees - those being as ''back up'' rather than as part of any new iniative or approach...... and that is where the real concerns should lie.There has been no serious indication that any other players bar Hoolahan (who certainly looks to want away) are seeking to leave. But will that stay that way come the close season ?If previous seasons are anything to go by then 36 points should see us avoid relegation ......which is probably three more wins and three draws. But is that what we want - or what the club really expected last summer ? Because it is the manner in which we will get those points that is of the real concern. Never mind the dire football, many will secretly accept it if it keeps us up, but more importantly the effect this is having on the players - mostly their development more than their morale. Though both will affect their performance.If we set our sights on only wheezing over the line at any cost then that will have further costs further down the line.Forget the new players we didn''t get and concentrate on how those we do have are being, and going to be, used.

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[quote user="Troll-op"]Do you think you''ll be promoted from the championship this season under mcarthy????[/quote]
Not sure what your on...
Fully agree with what City1st had to say, which is a bit surprising but [Y]

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I feel we''ve chanced it. We are banking on one of RVW, Wes or Elmander coming to the party and Howson and Tettey getting/staying fit.

Defence is fine, not perfect but happy with that. Going forward i worry a lot that we have looked so poor and yet not strengthened.

I would like to see Tettey and Fer start tomorrow. That partnership could be what keeps us up.

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The point is what are we expecting from the season ?wheezing over the line by a point or twoorpushing to finish as high as we can whilst developing the playersthe first I expect us to achieve, the latter we have totally failed to even attempt

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The upshot is, it doesn''t matter what we think or expect any more.  It''s about just staying in the league and taking the cash. If that''s fourth from bottom so be it.  Imo that''s what the aim is atm.  

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Various questions:

Do you get another striker in who can''t be fed balls? RVW and Hooper have ability. The latter proved more goal worthy since injury, runs a lot (better than Holt last season imo), RVW needs service.

Right move not getting another striker!!!

Jonas, I believe can fill a Wes role - he''s shot his bolt. It''s underlying.

Midfield is the issue - Johnson, like him as person, puts a foot in but...end product. Tettey & Fer is the key. Tettey is just about back. Get Howson up to speed and we are looking ok! Just OK, nothing special but enough.

We CAN keep clean sheets, even under pressure. Big teams - no chance but hedge your bets.

We do have enough to fight to keep up - NOT be comfortable but enough to survive.

Palace, Fulham, Cardiff and so on may have bought but what in comparison?

All we need to do is start feeding the striker(s)...

Call me deluded

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I personally think in terms of quality we have the second best squad we have ever assembled. In terms of out put of that squad i think they would be somewhere near the bottom of that list however. Almost certainly near the bottom on entertainment value.

Will we stay up for me its 50/50 but i can not see us improving at all in terms of performance and tactics for the duration of Hughtons term no matter who we sign.

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We need to stop playing as if the best we can do is to stop the oppositionClose them down when they have the ball and make space when we have the ballall this mumbo jumbo about 424 or 352 is meaningless as if you are allowing the opposition to control the game then your ''set up'' is determined by responding to them whatever numbers you over excite your selves withwatch the game to morrow and see how the opposition has always a couple of options to pass to whereas the reverse is pretty much always true with us as Hughton has drilled into the players that they should be more concerned with getting behind the ball and crowding the 18 yard box than trying to attack in any numbers - sadly it doesn''t seem to have dawned on him that other managers have twigged thisthey know how we will take throwswho will take corners and free kicksand even where Ruddy will kick the ballthere was some good stuff from Martinez durngbthe week about this - players should be given the freedom to play, to think on their feet and be creative Hughto is stifling this and it''s is futile to imagine that there is some magic line up formation, key player or whatever that can transform things -  as long as his dead hand is stifling our players we are going to see the same stagnant playchange him and you will then see us attack and score

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The tense is wrong. The squad WAS good enough in the summer, but is worse now, with no signs of improvement. I am not sure what has happened to Fer, but he seems as if he would like to be elsewhere, anywhere, Snodgrass is not the player of last season, and even Redmond and Bassong seem to have lost enthusiasm.

Admittedly, they did get off to a bad start, with Benno out for most of the season, Hooper injured pre-season, and some bits of bad luck in results (-though these have been balanced by some good luck).

This is not a "bash Hughton" message, at least not directly, because I wonder how any manager would turn round our tired, fearful, uncoordinated and misfiring side. Not only do they have to re-learn how to pass correctly and to run into space to receive passes, to "fight" when they go behind, to believe in themselves and team mates, they must also put themselves about and run until they drop.

How this will be achieved I don''t know, but then I am not a qualified and well-paid manager. Clearly progress has to be made on some or all of the deficiencies. The one encouraging thing is that if they play better or score goals or gain unexpected points, then self-belief and commitment will return as well, and the vicious spiral downwards will be reversed also, at least in part.

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The squad is more than good enough. The form is far from good enough.

Like other posters have said the squad is far better than the past 2 seasons yet the team haven''t been performing to an acceptable standard.

Hoopers 1 in 7 games. RvW 1 all season. Snograss 1 I think? Pilkington injury. Bennett injury. Tettey injury. Howson injury.

If RvW or hooper would have really hit it off and we had an injury free season I think you''d have a completely different perspective

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I am sort of in the same area as VSUL in terms of form and injuries and agree regarding had RVW and Hooper hit it  and injury free. But, clearly faced with the impact of these two things happening, clearly the squad is not good enough unless it is all available (or, should I say "strong" enough). It is this that has caught us out this season and probably surprised a few of us too, the depth in the squad still needs significant improvement to enable us to get consistency in level of performance and results in this league as it is unforgiving. From where we came from to now is actually impressive, but there is some way to go and more significant squad investment required when compared to many of the teams around us, and this will/can only happen with another season of cash from the EPL..........then I think we will see a little more consistency in quality of performance.

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Agree totally with that Vaughan. We have a squad which is currently good enough to stay in this league with relative ease. Of course you should ALWAYS be looking to improve it though.Spot on about the form; so in the end, doesn''t it all come down to whoever is running the coaching of this squad, and overseeing the tactics it''s charged with playing ?

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[quote user="Thorny"]Various questions:

Do you get another striker in who can''t be fed balls? RVW and Hooper have ability. The latter proved more goal worthy since injury, runs a lot (better than Holt last season imo), RVW needs service.

Right move not getting another striker!!!

Jonas, I believe can fill a Wes role - he''s shot his bolt. It''s underlying.

Midfield is the issue - Johnson, like him as person, puts a foot in but...end product. Tettey & Fer is the key. Tettey is just about back. Get Howson up to speed and we are looking ok! Just OK, nothing special but enough.

We CAN keep clean sheets, even under pressure. Big teams - no chance but hedge your bets.

We do have enough to fight to keep up - NOT be comfortable but enough to survive.

Palace, Fulham, Cardiff and so on may have bought but what in comparison?

All we need to do is start feeding the striker(s)...

Call me deluded[/quote]

Jonas fill the Wes role? A few people have got carried away due to the fact he actually managed to pass to his team mates a few times on his debut. He is a useful squad player but he''s slow for a winger and not very creative. The prospect of him getting picked on the wing every week now whilst Redmond warms the bench is depressing.

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I agree though with the basic point that the squad is good enough. Key for me is we must get Tettey back alongside Fer which enables both Fer to attack a bit more but also a more attacking midfielder to play in front of them. If we won''t play Wes then until Howson is back Redmond or Snoddy should play that role.

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Agree with VaughanSUL. Which is why i was hoping for an inspired signing or two.

 

 If the gaffer and his style/philosophy/system are not clicking with the lads and vice versa, then he needed to bring in somebody who can do, and really kickstart our season (5 months and 24 games in...).

 

which does support the prediction that a management change is highly likely come the summer. (hey, unless we rip the league apart from now till June! Ha ha)

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[quote user="City1st"]The point is what are we expecting from the season ?wheezing over the line by a point or twoorpushing to finish as high as we can whilst developing the playersthe first I expect us to achieve, the latter we have totally failed to even attempt

[/quote]Simple. And realistic. Given our spending, to do as well this season as last. So a point either side of 44 was my target for Hughton. The final league position can be misleading. We finished a place higher last season than under Lambert despite racking up three fewer points. So I go by points. Given the current oddity of the table this season, with a wider than normal gap between the haves and loads of have-nots I would now settle for 42 points as a finishing total.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="City1st"]
The point is what are we expecting from the season ?

wheezing over the line by a point or two

or

pushing to finish as high as we can whilst developing the players

the first I expect us to achieve, the latter we have totally failed to even attempt







[/quote]

Simple. And realistic. Given our spending, to do as well this season as last. So a point either side of 44 was my target for Hughton. The final league position can be misleading. We finished a place higher last season than under Lambert despite racking up three fewer points. So I go by points. Given the current oddity of the table this season, with a wider than normal gap between the haves and loads of have-nots I would now settle for 42 points as a finishing total.

[/quote]

 

I always look to which 3 teams I expect to be worse at the start of the season, if I consider there might be more than 3 then I expect better than 17th.

 

TBH this year I said that Cardiff & Hull had big financial backing and have signed the starting 11 on par with our own, who are on par with Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland and some other teams around us. Given this I expected us to finish anywhere from 18th to 10th depending on how we started and what the board said was expected of Hughton.

 

So although the football is dull, the worst it has ever been eve under the dark days of Roeder and Gunn, they had the excuse of not spending 30 odd million IMO and I find it hard to see how the board measure improvement! not by entertainment, maybe by points and places and that will be the downfall of Hughton and the coaching staff, maybe not, who knows.

 

I believe the squad is good enough to survive and if we get anywhere near 42 points I would be delihted, I believe it''s more likely around the 36 points and lots of finger nails being bitten on the last home game agaisnt Arsenal.

 

So yep just about good enough but not by much.

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I believe we have individually talented players and a more than decent squad, that should be well able and well capable to give any team a game or run for their money in this league.....(Bar those multi-million pound assembled squads at this moment in time, who currently occupy the top 4 positions and are battling it out for pole-position, that is)......Now, if the current manager is able to garner the collective individuals and get them to play as a team, we would I feel, not be just grinding out mediocre draws or unfortunate low scoring defeats.....but picking up decent wins.......

 

Poor old Hooper half the time only got the ball because he personally chased and got the bugga himself against Newcastle......

 

WE need to concentrate for the duration of the game, show more and work aggressively harder for the ball, retain possession, chase and win the ball, then provide and deliver - and don''t give the ball away cheaply with wayward passes including silly mistakes and lapses in concentration....We may have got away with it in the lower divisions on our ascent to the top-flight, but the Prem doesn''t take no prisoners and players can''t daydream whilst they contemplate a pass as they will be punished with dispossession and left like a little boy lost whilst the opposition say ''ta very much'' as they power towards our goal....

 

Will our current manager and coaching staff be able to instil this into our current crop of players?.....They have had over one and a half seasons to implement the above......and I, and many others are still wanting and waiting.... 

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