It Has Become Apparent

[Number 9 0]

That Chris Hughton is now an ''interim manager''

I am convinced that should we attain safety prior to the end of the season he will be sacked, otherwise, at the end of the season.

All the signs point to this.

Dead man walking

[The Masked Raccoon 0]

In 12th position. How many below have changed managers and not got put us in the relegation zone?

Just stating a fact to you!

[Hannibal II 0]

Only 5 points off the drop zone with a terrible goal difference

just stating facts to you

[Warren Hill 0]

Only 3 points off the top half with a terrible goal difference.

[morty 0]

Welcome to the Premier league, this is how its going to be for the foreseeable future.What makes you think we have a God given right to punch above our weight?I am sure, not too many years ago that Charlton thought they were established too, and had a right to Premiership football. The reality is that we are a small to medium sized fish in a very big pond.

[Jacko 0]

Look at that 10 clubs around us who are scrapping to avoid relegation. The majority are all clubs of very similar stature who attract crowds of around 25,000. Clubs such as Villa, Sunderland and West Ham have considerably higher gates and have spent much more time in the top flight than we have in the last 20 years.

The only club that are of similar stature who you could say are really outperforming us right now are Southampton. But to set this into context Southampton have spent £14 million on Dani Osvaldo, £10 million on Gaston Ramirez and £11 million on Victor Wanyama. In short they have absolutely obliterated our transfer record on 3 separate occasions in the last 18 months alone and have far greater financial resources than we do.

It may not be the most attractive football we''ve ever had but Chris Hughton isn''t doing badly. The fact we are 12th in the division and 5 points from the drop suggests he is doing a very competent job at the moment.

I genuinely believe that the very best that any manager on the planet could achieve managing Norwich in the Premiership is 8th position because after that the financial chasm which exists in this league makes it impossible to bridge that gap. That isn''t the little old Norwich mentality that is the simple and brutal reality for many clubs.

[morty 0]

Good stuff Cambridge[Y]

[Barossa 0]

He won''t be getting sacked if we retain Prem status, and nor should he.

[City 2nd 191]

Pitchforks & Torches wrote the following post at 2014-02-01 5:18 AM:

In 12th position. How many below have changed managers and not got put us in the relegation zone?

Just stating a fact to you!

It a not simply about league position. Norwich city have not won back to back matches in months, they do not play entertaining football, they are predominantly defensive, and quite simply cannot score goals! The majority of supporters, including our owners, do not buy into this philosophy. Quote the CEO this week, and last - ''we are in the entertainment business'' - he has been contacted by thousands of supporters regarding their own frustrations at the paltry return for their outlay in watching Norwich City win, and entertain. Many renewed their season tickets last year and gave Hughton the benefit if the doubt - remember city were dicing with relegation until the last two games of the season - the board and particularly the Chairman stated improvement was expected - and in fact it has got worse, particularly with the capital outlay at the start of the season. There is a very big worry that ticket take up for next season will be badly affected both in season ticket revenue, and caudal sakes. Indeed this season there has been tickets available for most home matches outside of the top four sides - this is unprecedented over the last few seasons, and the club hierarchy are not daft enough to think this is down to financial restrictions of supporters alone. There has to be a catalyst to follow up the recent renewal letters to get supporters thinking positively once again about NCFC. Only recently it was suggested that players would not be leaving the club, and strengthening was a priority in building a squad to take the club forward. That philosophy has changed dramatically over the last few weeks, and probably rightly so as the previous signings made by Hughton have failed to deliver. It is recognised that they have not become bad players, but they are being asked to play an unnatural game to their skills.

Hughton will remain to the seasons end possibly, but the Cardiff result may well have a huge impact on this event.

We have the same owners who got rid of Walker, Worthington, Rioch, Hamilton, Grant (walked) Roeder and Gunn. Hughton will fare no better. He has not brought the improvement they desire at all, and when results start to put supporter v supporter, and player v supporter at loggerheads, something has to give. Mr Hughtons days are numbered through his own inadequacy towards the desired orogress.

[Dubai Mark 0]

Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

You could just as easily argue the board froze lest we go down and wages become a problem. Or else we were simply quoted silly prices. Or else no players want to join- lots of possible reasons

But one thing is certain- it was a lack of activity that could just come back to haunt us.

[Guest]

Palace and Fulham didn''t seem to have any problems securing what they wanted.

[Warren Hill 0]

The powerful draw of Croydon...

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. [/quote]Well, it may be an interesting post from Cambs, but really it''s nothing to do with the tenet of the thread, is it ?I was out working pretty much all of yesterday , and missed much of the action (such as it was), but nearly everyone I spoke to seemed to be of the opinion that , if all our transfer activity amounted to loans for Gutierrez and Yobo, then the board has decided that Hughton is not in it for the long haul, and they are clearing the decks for his departure in the summer if not before.He''s now what the Americans would call a ''lame duck President''.  All very unhealthy and does not augur well for the next 3 months.

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

[quote user="City 2nd"]Pitchforks & Torches wrote the following post at 2014-02-01 5:18 AM:

In 12th position. How many below have changed managers and not got put us in the relegation zone?

Just stating a fact to you!

It a not simply about league position. Norwich city have not won back to back matches in months, they do not play entertaining football, they are predominantly defensive, and quite simply cannot score goals! The majority of supporters, including our owners, do not buy into this philosophy. Quote the CEO this week, and last - ''we are in the entertainment business'' - he has been contacted by thousands of supporters regarding their own frustrations at the paltry return for their outlay in watching Norwich City win, and entertain. Many renewed their season tickets last year and gave Hughton the benefit if the doubt - remember city were dicing with relegation until the last two games of the season - the board and particularly the Chairman stated improvement was expected - and in fact it has got worse, particularly with the capital outlay at the start of the season. There is a very big worry that ticket take up for next season will be badly affected both in season ticket revenue, and caudal sakes. Indeed this season there has been tickets available for most home matches outside of the top four sides - this is unprecedented over the last few seasons, and the club hierarchy are not daft enough to think this is down to financial restrictions of supporters alone. There has to be a catalyst to follow up the recent renewal letters to get supporters thinking positively once again about NCFC. Only recently it was suggested that players would not be leaving the club, and strengthening was a priority in building a squad to take the club forward. That philosophy has changed dramatically over the last few weeks, and probably rightly so as the previous signings made by Hughton have failed to deliver. It is recognised that they have not become bad players, but they are being asked to play an unnatural game to their skills.

Hughton will remain to the seasons end possibly, but the Cardiff result may well have a huge impact on this event.

We have the same owners who got rid of Walker, Worthington, Rioch, Hamilton, Grant (walked) Roeder and Gunn. Hughton will fare no better. He has not brought the improvement they desire at all, and when results start to put supporter v supporter, and player v supporter at loggerheads, something has to give. Mr Hughtons days are numbered through his own inadequacy towards the desired orogress.[/quote]

Our present playing style and not being sold out is not a glowing recommendation for expansion of the ground. This will in the long term hurt us financially as i think we all agree ground size and income generated can be a factor in table position.

I am not a Hughton outer and prepared to give him time, i am also aware of the " be careful what you wish for" scenario of sacking him.

How many good signings are we away from being where we want to be and being entertained at the same time?

H

[dreamteam 0]

It has become apparent that some fans will find any reason to ignore any good that Hughton does and exaggerate any bad.

It has become apparent that some fans who demanded 4 4 2 formation, don''t recognise when its being used.

It has become apparent that some fans are now also turning on the best Chief Exec and Chairman we have ever had.

It has become apparent that some fans are turning against any player who is picked for the team and claiming God like status for whichever favourite of theirs who is not picked.

It has become apparent that some fans go to games (or not) and actually want to create a poisonous atmosphere.

[The Voice Of Reason 0]

I am convinced that we have some very good players in our club, some very very good players.

I also know that they are not playing to their potential, let alone training on to improve their skills.

I also know that ultimately the buck stops with the manager, Hughton.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="dreamteam"]It has become apparent that some fans will find any reason to ignore any good that Hughton does and exaggerate any bad.

It has become apparent that some fans who demanded 4 4 2 formation, don''t recognise when its being used.

It has become apparent that some fans are now also turning on the best Chief Exec and Chairman we have ever had.

It has become apparent that some fans are turning against any player who is picked for the team and claiming God like status for whichever favourite of theirs who is not picked.

It has become apparent that some fans go to games (or not) and actually want to create a poisonous atmosphere.[/quote]Who are thes ''some fans'' you are speaking of, Dreamteam ? Examples ?Otherwise, it has become apparent that you are talking out of your @rse.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. [/quote]Well, it may be an interesting post from Cambs, but really it''s nothing to do with the tenet of the thread, is it ?I was out working pretty much all of yesterday , and missed much of the action (such as it was), but nearly everyone I spoke to seemed to be of the opinion that , if all our transfer activity amounted to loans for Gutierrez and Yobo, then the board has decided that Hughton is not in it for the long haul, and they are clearing the decks for his departure in the summer if not before.He''s now what the Americans would call a ''lame duck President''.  All very unhealthy and does not augur well for the next 3 months.[/quote]It is possible to read it that way. It is also possible to read it another. That the board have looked at the table and decided we are likely to be safe (however tediously) without expensive additions. McNally is not an idiot. He knows that in the wake of his bridge-burning "relegation is death" comment that if we go down he will be bear the brunt of the criticism (which is one reason why I thought the interview was a mistake).So the lack of spending may be for that reason rather than because the board have already decided to hand Hughton his P45 in May. On that the directors may still have a very open mind. What I think in some sports is called an option-play

[Sussexyellow 55]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. [/quote]Well, it may be an interesting post from Cambs, but really it''s nothing to do with the tenet of the thread, is it ?I was out working pretty much all of yesterday , and missed much of the action (such as it was), but nearly everyone I spoke to seemed to be of the opinion that , if all our transfer activity amounted to loans for Gutierrez and Yobo, then the board has decided that Hughton is not in it for the long haul, and they are clearing the decks for his departure in the summer if not before.He''s now what the Americans would call a ''lame duck President''.  All very unhealthy and does not augur well for the next 3 months.[/quote]It is possible to read it that way. It is also possible to read it another. That the board have looked at the table and decided we are likely to be safe (however tediously) without expensive additions. McNally is not an idiot. He knows that in the wake of his bridge-burning "relegation is death" comment that if we go down he will be bear the brunt of the criticism (which is one reason why I thought the interview was a mistake).So the lack of spending may be for that reason rather than because the board have already decided to hand Hughton his P45 in May. On that the directors may still have a very open mind. What I think in some sports is called an option-play[/quote]

Sounds reasonable Purple. There are all sorts of scenarios that could be the case - we just do not know. Another could be that the board did back him but the business could not be done within our financial constraints - such as our wage structure.

I have seen nothing to convince me that Hughton is a dead man walking.

Anyway whilst talking of scenarios here are another couple. We finish 17th or higher. CH has achieved his targets, what is the business case for then buying out his contract? Probably not one. Or we get relegated and need a manager with a good Championship record. Oh we have one! And he may just be the best option available! Either of those sees CH remain as a longer term option.

But I agree with other posters that entertainment is an issue, and this seems to have been acknowledged by McNally. So would the board take a Stoke/Pulis decision should we survive?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. [/quote]Well, it may be an interesting post from Cambs, but really it''s nothing to do with the tenet of the thread, is it ?I was out working pretty much all of yesterday , and missed much of the action (such as it was), but nearly everyone I spoke to seemed to be of the opinion that , if all our transfer activity amounted to loans for Gutierrez and Yobo, then the board has decided that Hughton is not in it for the long haul, and they are clearing the decks for his departure in the summer if not before.He''s now what the Americans would call a ''lame duck President''.  All very unhealthy and does not augur well for the next 3 months.[/quote]It is possible to read it that way. It is also possible to read it another. That the board have looked at the table and decided we are likely to be safe (however tediously) without expensive additions. McNally is not an idiot. He knows that in the wake of his bridge-burning "relegation is death" comment that if we go down he will be bear the brunt of the criticism (which is one reason why I thought the interview was a mistake).So the lack of spending may be for that reason rather than because the board have already decided to hand Hughton his P45 in May. On that the directors may still have a very open mind. What I think in some sports is called an option-play[/quote]

Sounds reasonable Purple. There are all sorts of scenarios that could be the case - we just do not know. Another could be that the board did back him but the business could not be done within our financial constraints - such as our wage structure.

I have seen nothing to convince me that Hughton is a dead man walking.

Anyway whilst talking of scenarios here are another couple. We finish 17th or higher. CH has achieved his targets, what is the business case for then buying out his contract? Probably not one. Or we get relegated and need a manager with a good Championship record. Oh we have one! And he may just be the best option available! Either of those sees CH remain as a longer term option.

But I agree with other posters that entertainment is an issue, and this seems to have been acknowledged by McNally. So would the board take a Stoke/Pulis decision should we survive?[/quote]Sussex, I think that might be a factor in sacking him even if we stay up. But I believe there are two stronger ones, which are potentially linked. If, say, we survive only by a point or two and (partly because) Hughton still shows no signs of being more tactically astute, then I think he might be shown the door.Because the directors would be afraid - with good reason - that Hughton was on the kind of slide that Jol was on at Fulham and Clarke at West Brom. Both had good starts (as did Hughton) and then fell away and looked as if they would continue to do so. Style is nice but if I was a director I would care more that we had a manager capable of getting the very best out of the squad, even if that is a policy of gritty 1-0s at home and even grittier 0-0s away. We will for the foreseeable future have a comparitively cheap and untalented set of players. So we need a manager who wrings the most out of them, in terms of motivation and particularly tactics.Accoding to ldc, seer of this message-board, we now have pretty much everyone available - a veritable embarrass de richesse - with Yobo able to start as our linking No.10 (I assume that is why we have signed him). So Hughton has no excuse not to deploy his tactical skills, in the starting line-up and tactics but also in making changes during the game to counteract the moves of the opposition manager and to instigate switches that flummox his adversary.

[Canary02 IV 0]

I don''t think the lack of transfer activity was down to a withholding of funds, but more that we couldn''t attract and/or identify players who would improve on what we have. That will partly be geographical reasons, partly due to perceived size of club and partly due to us not being an attractive footballing proposition at the moment.

The board are it appears, standing by their man. His brief was to keep us out of the bottom three and stay up. Currently he is achieving this so he stays. I don''t think McNally is oblivious however, and said as much in his radio interview when he admitted that he doesn''t expect anything from our last 4 games of the season. He must therefore be conscious of our need to get points on the board sooner rather than later. After Cardiff we have Man City at home followed on the Tuesday by West Ham away and we then have a ten day break before the next game against Spurs. We then have a series of 6-7 key but winnable games against sides around us in the bottom pack before the last 4 games. I think if we''re still not motoring after West Ham, McNally may pull the trigger. I doubt there''ll be a dismissal regardless of result today or against Man City unless we get lashed for 7 or 8 at home, but if we don''t get at least two points from Cardiff or West Ham that may be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[Rivvo 257]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="dreamteam"]It has become apparent that some fans will find any reason to ignore any good that Hughton does and exaggerate any bad.

It has become apparent that some fans who demanded 4 4 2 formation, don''t recognise when its being used.

It has become apparent that some fans are now also turning on the best Chief Exec and Chairman we have ever had.

It has become apparent that some fans are turning against any player who is picked for the team and claiming God like status for whichever favourite of theirs who is not picked.

It has become apparent that some fans go to games (or not) and actually want to create a poisonous atmosphere.[/quote]Who are thes ''some fans'' you are speaking of, Dreamteam ? Examples ?Otherwise, it has become apparent that you are talking out of your @rse.[/quote]

Reggie, perhaps it was the bloke in the Thorpe wing who booed snoddy whenever he touched the ball on Tuesday night (after the spat) or perhaps those who gave Elmander grief when he was warming up for no apparent reason 😕

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Rivvo"]

Reggie, perhaps it was the bloke in the Thorpe wing who booed snoddy whenever he touched the ball on Tuesday night (after the spat) or perhaps those who gave Elmander grief when he was warming up for no apparent reason 😕[/quote]OK, Rivvo. That''s two incidents/ people. Out of over 27,000 at the match, and no doubt a fair few more on here too.Not really an argument clincher, is it ?And Nige has the cheek to accuse ME of making stuff up.......

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Rivvo"] Reggie, perhaps it was the bloke in the Thorpe wing who booed snoddy whenever he touched the ball on Tuesday night (after the spat) or perhaps those who gave Elmander grief when he was warming up for no apparent reason 😕[/quote]I know this is not what was meant but I like the idea of Elmander warming up for no apparent reason...[:D]

[Sussexyellow 55]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Sussexyellow"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Thats a great post Cambridge Yellow and I agree fully with the best we can achieve, but think thats still a few seasons away due to our finances clearly still being the least impressive probably in this league to build the depth of squad required, although I think generally a decent job has been done on that front to date considering. [/quote]Well, it may be an interesting post from Cambs, but really it''s nothing to do with the tenet of the thread, is it ?I was out working pretty much all of yesterday , and missed much of the action (such as it was), but nearly everyone I spoke to seemed to be of the opinion that , if all our transfer activity amounted to loans for Gutierrez and Yobo, then the board has decided that Hughton is not in it for the long haul, and they are clearing the decks for his departure in the summer if not before.He''s now what the Americans would call a ''lame duck President''.  All very unhealthy and does not augur well for the next 3 months.[/quote]It is possible to read it that way. It is also possible to read it another. That the board have looked at the table and decided we are likely to be safe (however tediously) without expensive additions. McNally is not an idiot. He knows that in the wake of his bridge-burning "relegation is death" comment that if we go down he will be bear the brunt of the criticism (which is one reason why I thought the interview was a mistake).So the lack of spending may be for that reason rather than because the board have already decided to hand Hughton his P45 in May. On that the directors may still have a very open mind. What I think in some sports is called an option-play[/quote]

Sounds reasonable Purple. There are all sorts of scenarios that could be the case - we just do not know. Another could be that the board did back him but the business could not be done within our financial constraints - such as our wage structure.

I have seen nothing to convince me that Hughton is a dead man walking.

Anyway whilst talking of scenarios here are another couple. We finish 17th or higher. CH has achieved his targets, what is the business case for then buying out his contract? Probably not one. Or we get relegated and need a manager with a good Championship record. Oh we have one! And he may just be the best option available! Either of those sees CH remain as a longer term option.

But I agree with other posters that entertainment is an issue, and this seems to have been acknowledged by McNally. So would the board take a Stoke/Pulis decision should we survive?[/quote]Sussex, I think that might be a factor in sacking him even if we stay up. But I believe there are two stronger ones, which are potentially linked. If, say, we survive only by a point or two and (partly because) Hughton still shows no signs of being more tactically astute, then I think he might be shown the door.Because the directors would be afraid - with good reason - that Hughton was on the kind of slide that Jol was on at Fulham and Clarke at West Brom. Both had good starts (as did Hughton) and then fell away and looked as if they would continue to do so. Style is nice but if I was a director I would care more that we had a manager capable of getting the very best out of the squad, even if that is a policy of gritty 1-0s at home and even grittier 0-0s away. We will for the foreseeable future have a comparitively cheap and untalented set of players. So we need a manager who wrings the most out of them, in terms of motivation and particularly tactics.Accoding to ldc, seer of this message-board, we now have pretty much everyone available - a veritable embarrass de richesse - with Yobo able to start as our linking No.10 (I assume that is why we have signed him). So Hughton has no excuse not to deploy his tactical skills, in the starting line-up and tactics but also in making changes during the game to counteract the moves of the opposition manager and to instigate switches that flummox his adversary.[/quote]

You obviously have a very dry sense of humour Purple.

I see your arguments and do not disagree. However given the signings we have and have not made I would expect the tactics to be the same as the first half of the season. Despite your last last tongue in cheek sentence. But your arguments would also have supported a change in manager prior to Xmas. As we know it did not happen. 

Maybe the issue is lack of alternatives to turn to - and that may remain an issue in the summer. WBA and Spurs clearly did not have alternatives set up when they dumped managers. WBA looked to have a bit of a struggle to make an appointment, and Spurs have taken a chance, albeit with a talented squad of players that will mitigate much of that risk. It''s not rich pickings when it comes to finding the right manager. 

For a club such as Norwich any change would be a big risk, if it failed the odds on relegation would increase substantially. We are not a Spurs who would get by come what may. Or given the money that is at stake do they stick with careful (not clueless) Chris who has done the job for the past two seasons. Back him to buy a couple of talented midfielders and hope that the pieces start to fall into place. Big decision - I would not want to be on the Board!

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

Sussex, if Norwich City fans didn''t have a sense of humour...[:P]

[Rivvo 257]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Rivvo"] Reggie, perhaps it was the bloke in the Thorpe wing who booed snoddy whenever he touched the ball on Tuesday night (after the spat) or perhaps those who gave Elmander grief when he was warming up for no apparent reason 😕[/quote]I know this is not what was meant but I like the idea of Elmander warming up for no apparent reason...[:D][/quote]

I can only go on what happens near me, I am not omnipresent and don''t know what was going on in other parts of the ground. I did not make this up as unlike many on here I don''t have a rigid agenda and have no need to twist the facts to suit my position.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Some managers are getting 95 to 100% from their squads we have a guy, pleasant and articulate int he media but as far as his squad goes he is only getting 70 to 80% out of the players. If we stay up it will have little to do with Hughton and more with the failings at other clubs

[Rivvo 257]

Purple I often think most of our subs warm up for no apparent reason 😳