Grrrrr was expecting to login and see the headline Hughton Sacked...

[H4H 0]

The most frustrating thing for me, is the fact that CH has know idea what his best starting 11 is - For me Redmond would have run circles around the Cardiff defence on Saturday.

This weekend was the first time that I actually believe we are going to get relegated, I don''t think the guy has a clue what he''s doing.

[Yellow Wal 314]

It must be extremely frustrating for players like Redmond and Fer, who are naturally attacking players, who have not had the opportunity to attack teams because of our poor form, to see themselves on the bench on Saturday.The moment those two came on our whole approach to the game changed. We ''scored'' two goals that were disallowed, we hit the woodwork, all in that last 15 minutes.It''s all very well saying Redmond needed a break and that Fer was not playing well but this match was their sort of match. How would Cardiff have coped had we taken a more positive approach from the start and played those two?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

To a degree Hughton has got away with less stick than deserved regarding his incredibly negative team selection on Saturday because the team he put out actually did quite well for at least the first half an hour. That however, ignores the question of how well we might have done had we had our attacking players on the pitch to take advantage of what was an utterly appalling Cardiff team. who knows we might even have taken a 2 goal lead for once!

There is no more damning indictment of the manager in my view than the fact that we travelled to a newly promoted team, no wins in 6, bottom of the league and still put out a team aimed primarily at negating them rather than playing our own game.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="H4H"]The most frustrating thing for me, is the fact that CH has know idea what his best starting 11 is - For me Redmond would have run circles around the Cardiff defence on Saturday.

This weekend was the first time that I actually believe we are going to get relegated, I don''t think the guy has a clue what he''s doing.[/quote]

No question that was the most depressing weekend in a long time, really tough to take.

But equally, that''s the first time, maybe even this season, that we can really say we played well. It would have been even worse, and i''d have the relegation feeling too, if we''d been as awful as we''ve been recently. There''s no question for me that we can get the 5 wins we need if we keep playing like that (minus the poor mistakes at the back that maybe Yobo can help us eradicate). So for me there''s still hope. Plus the fact that if we''d one that as we should have done we''d be level 10th now. It''s so bunched up now a win and everything''s rosy, a defeat and we''re going down for sure.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]There is no more damning indictment of the manager in my view than the fact that we travelled to a newly promoted team, no wins in 6, bottom of the league and still put out a team aimed primarily at negating them rather than playing our own game.[/quote]

Disagree with this. I think we need to knock on the head the idea that just because we set up with one up we''re playing negatively. Just look at all the teams who play that way for a start and ask if they''re all negative. It can''t be right that a negatively set up team goes away from home and has 27 shots at goal or however many it was.

Fact is, two up isn''t working. Ever since RvW came back and we''ve tried going two up our performances have actually got worse if you ask me. Cardiff showed that we should probably stay with what we know play Hoops as the single striker either with Elmander or preferably for me Hoolahan off. The game at the weekend showed how this doesn''t have to be a negative set up.

[Hughtons P45 0]

Oh do behave A1, it''s obvious that the first team out was about "containment" and after the subs were made it was about "attacking" which shows that hughton would of been happy with a point away from home on Saturday. If not he would of started with that team or at the very least made the subs earlier.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="a1canary"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]There is no more damning indictment of the manager in my view than the fact that we travelled to a newly promoted team, no wins in 6, bottom of the league and still put out a team aimed primarily at negating them rather than playing our own game.[/quote]

Disagree with this. I think we need to knock on the head the idea that just because we set up with one up we''re playing negatively. Just look at all the teams who play that way for a start and ask if they''re all negative. It can''t be right that a negatively set up team goes away from home and has 27 shots at goal or however many it was.

Fact is, two up isn''t working. Ever since RvW came back and we''ve tried going two up our performances have actually got worse if you ask me. Cardiff showed that we should probably stay with what we know play Hoops as the single striker either with Elmander or preferably for me Hoolahan off. The game at the weekend showed how this doesn''t have to be a negative set up.

[/quote]

I wasn;t referring to playing 1 up front (not that we played one up front anyway it was 4-4-2 however much people may claim Elmander plays as a midfielder - he may drop deep sometimes but he doesn''t) I was referring to a central midfield of Johnson and Tettey flanked by the slowest wing combination probably ever fielded in the premier league just so we can accommodate the more defensively solid Gutierez who looks a useful player to have and has done fine so far but whose presence in the team makes us even more one paced.

I agree with you that 4-4-2 does not work, I have never been part of the clamour for "two up front." At this level the best way of sustaining attacking pressure is to have the ball and we don;t generally have it enough playing 4-4-2, especially against the better teams. Our best performance in recent times was in my view Man United but of course we can;t play that line up currently because of the whole Wes episode.

[MancCanary 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]There is no more damning indictment of the manager in my view than the fact that we travelled to a newly promoted team, no wins in 6, bottom of the league and still put out a team aimed primarily at negating them rather than playing our own game.[/quote]

Disagree with this. I think we need to knock on the head the idea that just because we set up with one up we''re playing negatively. Just look at all the teams who play that way for a start and ask if they''re all negative. It can''t be right that a negatively set up team goes away from home and has 27 shots at goal or however many it was.

Fact is, two up isn''t working. Ever since RvW came back and we''ve tried going two up our performances have actually got worse if you ask me. Cardiff showed that we should probably stay with what we know play Hoops as the single striker either with Elmander or preferably for me Hoolahan off. The game at the weekend showed how this doesn''t have to be a negative set up.

[/quote]

I think the negativity in the starting line-up for me was starting Johnson and Tettey together, *as well as* playing Gutierrez and Snodgrass, and not playing Redmond at least. As soon as I saw it I thought, "no pace at all, and only one creative player (snoddy)".

We played well considering the line-up though, until the schoolboy errors. But the school of thought is that if Redmond and Fer had been playing, and given licence to get forward, we could''ve been 2 or 3 up before those errors.

As for "It can''t be right that a negatively set up team goes away from home and has 27 shots at goal or however many it was." - most of these 27 shots happened once Fer and Redmond had been brought on.

[lake district canary 4,530]

"Grr I was expecting to see Hughton sacked"

Don''t know why. It must be clear to most people CH is here at least to the end of the season. Like it or not we have to make the best of what we''ve got

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Absolutely P45. Basically Norwich got lucky in the first 10 mins because Cardiff''s defence went awol. It was clear to me at least that the prime emphasis was designed to be containment.It was only in the last 25 mins when he got desperate that Hughton decided to take the shackles off. I have to say, a triple substitution was something I''d never expected to see from him !

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

I didn''t see the game. I just followed it on the BBC''s minute by minute. And this, based on that, is how it went:We were on top for 10 or 15 minutes and scored a goal due to a bad right-sided defensive mistake by Cardiff. From then on until the 75th minute Cardiff were generally the better side, in part because on 38 minutes, when a goal behind, their manager made an attacking substitution.We made two bad defensive mistakes, putting them 2-1 ahead, but with their attacking substitute being involved in at least one of the goals, and posing a threat thereafter.According to the BBC all the late saves and chances came from the 75th minute on when Hughton made his triple substitution. Until then Cardiff had looked the likelier to score again, particularly because of Zaha.Having seen brief highlights, there was one good save (low down) from Marshall but the others were pretty regulation stuff. The Snodgrass header that hit the outside of the post would have been saved by Marshall (who was positioned there) if it had been on target. I didn''t see the disallowed goals, but I haven''t seen any suggestion they were incorrectly ruled out.The contrast is between a manager who at 1-0 is bold and goes on the attack (and so reduces the pressure on his fallible fullback) without even waiting for half-time, and a manager who lets the game go on for a full 25 minutes after going a goal behind before making any change, and then it is essentially three like for likes.That predictably produces a Lambert-style  cavalry charge and loads of scrapes and near misses. It all looks like an act of desperation rather than the tactically smart and game-changing move by the Cardiff manager. On another day we might have scored an equaliser, but if you leave the substitutions that late there is more of a chance that you won''t.

[H4H 0]

the other big issue for me (and has been mentioned above) is that our creative players seem to have lost their flare…

[Yellow Wal 314]

a1canary .......... But equally, that''s the first time, maybe even this season, that we can really say we played well.Yes ........... but we were playing Cardiff, that''s why we were playing well. If my memory serves me right we played well against them earlier in the season, perhaps it''s because they aren''t very good!

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I don''t think there can be too many arguments that the starting lineup had an "industrial" look to it. Certainly not much evidence of flair or pace.