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Juggy

Are we skint?

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The 2013 accounts show wages and salary costs of £50.8m, up £14m on the year previous.

Turnover was just £74.7m, up just 0.58% on the year prior.

£50.8m on wages and salaries against a turnover of £74.7m.

Operating profit of just £883,000 (down from £16.6m).

Cash down 29% year on year.

The clubs net worth is given at just £3m.

Could it be that the club just didn''t have the money to spend in this window, and that is why they have stuck with Hughton?

He''d need a pay off, a new manager would want a nice big salary and money to spend, and would undoubtedly cast some players on the scrap heap.

Is it a possibility that we have to consider?

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The Van Wolfswinkel transfer fee alone equates to 11.4% of our annual turnover. That''s before wages.

Could it be that the club just can''t afford to purchase players without borrowing?

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Dont most teams operate in the red?

If we did nothing in order to avoid red ink it means we''re setting up for relegation and dont want to risk it while assuming more debt that could actually help us avoid it. Such negative thinking.

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A club without ANY debt is a more sellable asset!

That really doesn''t take too much working out!

Delia and MWJ are not going (to want) to continue ownership for ever as they reach retirement age (Delia has already cut her work schedules massively).

The club have strived to dissolve all club debt over the last three years, and have been successful. This however dies come at a cost. Think prudence - not so much ambition - and why a certain manager left!

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Not that I go in for conspiracy theories, but I did suggest the possibility that the board couldnt afford to sack hughton before the window closed as any new manager would ask for cash in the window, and the board probably feel theyve spent enough this season on improving the team and want something back for it. Much more likely theyd prefer the option that a new man is tasked with getting more out of the existing staff.

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For what ever you think about the board, one thing is true to say that by making our club debt free they have also set the future out for us and that is relegation, you can''t get the results by not investing in the right direction, Last summer IMO £14+mil on wasted assets, both RVW and Hooper ,again IMO were probably the worst bit of transfer deals we have done, It is all very well and good being debt free but it does not make the club any stronger or better, the fans are getting close to letting feelings be known and If we go down then the board have to take full blame,

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]I wonder if MWJ and Delia when they do eventually step down - would call in their financial loan to NCFC?[/quote]According to Bowkett around the time of the AGM the loans to Smith and Jones and Foulger will be paid off this financial year. Small amounts of both were paid off in the last financial year, and what is left (or was a few months ago) amounts to £3.1m.

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[quote user="Le Juge"]The 2013 accounts show wages and salary costs of £50.8m, up £14m on the year previous.

1) Turnover was just £74.7m, up just 0.58% on the year prior.

£50.8m on wages and salaries against a turnover of £74.7m.

2) Operating profit of just £883,000 (down from £16.6m).

Cash down 29% year on year.

The clubs net worth is given at just £3m.

Could it be that the club just didn''t have the money to spend in this window, and that is why they have stuck with Hughton?

He''d need a pay off, a new manager would want a nice big salary and money to spend, and would undoubtedly cast some players on the scrap heap.

3) Is it a possibility that we have to consider?[/quote]1) Turnover this year (because of the new TV deal) will be close to £100m.2) The club does not want to make large profits. That is not its policy.3) A possibility, but one I very much doubt. Other factors are much more likely.

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Yes turnover will be up this year Purple of course, but our wage bill will likely be up too.

I''m grateful for your contribution as one of the resident number crunchers though (not sarcasm).

Is it in fact much more likely that rather than "being skint", we could be being "very prudent so that we don''t become skint"?

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"For what ever you think about the board, one thing is true to say that by making our club debt free they have also set the future out for us and that is relegation"

I''m not a big numbers man like Purple or FTA but ''debt free'' gets bandied about on here quite a bit. We may not have any external loans but that doesn''t make us ''liability free'', in fact far from it.

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[quote user="Le Juge"]How long must we wait for the next set of accounts Purple?[/quote]Probably in October. That is the normal time. The other figures that will come out sooner than that (The Guardian and the Swiss Ramble collate them) will be the financial league tables for all Premier League clubs for the 2012-13 season. This will show how we compared with the rest on important indicators such as player wages, player wages as a percentage of turnover, non-TV turnover, debt etc.

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What amazed me is that our turnover and ''wages and salaries'' are a very similar level to Stoke City in their 2012 return who have been in this league for a fair bit longer and have had quite a large squad of high profile players (like Shawcross, Crouch, Owen, Huth, etc).

I would love for the Premier League to become more like the MLS, where salaries are disclosed publicly. Considering the last set of accounts were before Leroy Fer and Gary Hooper, I''d love to see which of our players were on big money last season.

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All I''m trying to say really is that with no big transfers in January, and a reluctance to change manager where other clubs have, I wonder whether this is a decision driven by finances and a reluctance to borrow money to finance. Something which I guess we just won''t know.

We could equally just be taking a gamble and hoping that Hughton can keep us up, with any cash surplus being added to a summer budget of course. Does make you wonder whether we have very well paid players not contributing much to the cause though.... Garrido, Becchio, now Hoolahan, perhaps even Fox. And whether a summer clear out is on the cards if we stay up (or indeed if we go down).

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TIL 1010 posted:

Come on Tangible you know you want to....

No he doesn''t- too busy discussing issues with Mr Bowkett to bother responding to you.

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[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]TIL 1010 posted: Come on Tangible you know you want to.... No he doesn''t- too busy discussing issues with Mr Bowkett to bother responding to you.[/quote]

[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/jdb2206/media/Organ_grinder_with_monkey_zpsc9cc1655.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w516/jdb2206/Organ_grinder_with_monkey_zpsc9cc1655.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]TIL 1010 posted:

Come on Tangible you know you want to....

No he doesn''t- too busy discussing issues with Mr Bowkett to bother responding to you.[/quote]My guess is he''s still trying to find out how much Watling walleted...Or more likely.....he''s still looking for Form 288b. I just hope he hasn''t fell down that Black Hole. [:O]

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Now here''s a novel idea for Nutty and Lappin

Now you both have time and all the accounts and your accountancy expertise, why don''t you do as some others have..

Work out the figures for yourselves,then post them on here to prove your point (whatever that is) OR

To have the p taken as you have done to others who have taken the time.

Sounds fair to me, and PC, no after school tuition[;)]

 

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[quote user="The Butler"]

Now here''s a novel idea for Nutty and Lappin

Now you both have time and all the accounts and your accountancy expertise, why don''t you do as some others have..

Work out the figures for yourselves,then post them on here to prove your point (whatever that is) OR

To have the p taken as you have done to others who have taken the time.

Sounds fair to me, and PC, no after school tuition[;)]

 

[/quote]TB, there is at least one poster here who would probably be spluttering[A] into their morning cornflakes at the notion that I might have any knowledge[8-|] to pass on. But even if I do, frankly there are some potential pupils who are just unteachable[*-)] and I think you have just named two of them...[;)][:D][:P]

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[quote user="The Butler"]

Now here''s a novel idea for Nutty and Lappin

Now you both have time and all the accounts and your accountancy expertise, why don''t you do as some others have..

Work out the figures for yourselves,then post them on here to prove your point (whatever that is) OR

To have the p taken as you have done to others who have taken the time.

 

[/quote]

Could you post a link to the posts please Butler where these figures to which you are referring have been printed. All I recall seeing were wild assumptions. Mind you the poster we are talking about has been asked a thousand times to clarify the situation. I wonder if he made his views known to his pal Alan Bowkett when he met/meets him. [;)]

[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/noramaj/media/album%20%201/Professor_3.gif.html][IMG]http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/noramaj/album%20%201/Professor_3.gif[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The Butler"]

Now here''s a novel idea for Nutty and Lappin

Now you both have time and all the accounts and your accountancy expertise, why don''t you do as some others have..

Work out the figures for yourselves,then post them on here to prove your point (whatever that is) OR

To have the p taken as you have done to others who have taken the time.

 

[/quote]

Could you post a link to the posts please Butler where these figures to which you are referring have been printed. All I recall seeing were wild assumptions. Mind you the poster we are talking about has been asked a thousand times to clarify the situation. I wonder if he made his views known to his pal Alan Bowkett when he met/meets him. [;)]

[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/noramaj/media/album%20%201/Professor_3.gif.html][IMG]http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/noramaj/album%20%201/Professor_3.gif[/IMG][/URL]

[/quote]

I didn''t say they had been posted in detail on here Tilly.

When any mention was made  accusations soon followed.

I do have the figures and  they are not assumptions, straight from NCFC accounts.NO I am not going to post them on here.

I see Nutty avoids the issue by throwing insults as usual.

I repeat, get the accounts and work it out, then post the figures so you prove the truth of your jibes or admit you are wrong.

Easy, no hassle and no stupid comments.

 

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