AVB gone

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Feel sorry for AVB, was given an impossible job at Tottenham. Had little say in transfer policy and he had to build a team around 4 or 5 players who had never played in England before.

 

Despite bringing in some excellent players over the summer Tottenham failed to address the problems in defence and signed one striker meaning Defoe would be the back up should it not work out.

 

Despite what many say about him, he doesn''t have a massive ego and I''m not really sure why people think he does as he generally doesn''t come across that way in interviews/press conferences. Whoever comes into Tottenham will do very well to improve the situation there as they have a lot of expensive players misfiring at the moment. I expect AVB''s next move will be outside of England, he is still very highly regarded in Italy and that might be a league that suits his ideas a little better - doubt he would go for a job like WBA because he really doesn''t need to.

[can u sit down please 0]

Fully agree Bethnal!

[GJP 79]

Yup, I think he seems alright.

 

I think he maybe didn''t make a great impression on camera when he arrived at Chelsea but since he''s been at Spurs he''s always seemed like quite a decent guy.

 

As for the football side of it, he lost by far their best player and has then was expected to integrate a bunch of new signings in a short space of time. Not easy when they haven''t played in the Prem before. And it would appear that some of them are players he didn''t particularly want to sign.

 

Far from ideal circumstances. Hard to see that anyone else could have done much better.

[Monty13 2,231]

Manager sackings in the PL have always drifted towards the ridiculous over the last few years but it does seem more and more recently that managing a PL has become a short term impossible job.

I feel sorry for AVB, feel massively sorry for Steve Clarke. Two examples of good managers being broken by the massive weight of (unrealistic?) club aspirations.

I''m sure if I trawled the WBA or Spurs boards before they went there would be a similar split as on here of pro/anti/middle ground opinions on both of those managers.

Spurs and WBA are exactly where non Spurs and WBA supporters would expect them to be in the table. One struggling to keep up with the top four, the other meandering around mid table but looking safe enough from the bottom 3.

Having watched the West Brom game we beat a good side who were very unlucky and don''t have a clinical striker since they lost Lukaku, not really sure where a manager better than Clarke is who can solve either of those issues and wants to be at West Brom?

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I think the expectation for Spurs was that by using the ridiculous amount they received for Bale, they could bring in plenty of quality players and be challenging solidly for the 4th CL place.  What has done for AVB is that after nearly half the season, those players and the squad should be bedding in - instead they''ve been thrashed by Man City away and then by Liverpool at home. 

 

That''s the difference between them and us.  Getting tonked by Man City and Liverpool won''t affect Hughton''s job security as long as he''s consistently getting wins against teams lower down and has us safely above the drop zone.  For Spurs, that isn''t good enough.

 

If it''s true that AVB hasn''t wanted the signings they''ve made, then I would feel a bit for him, and think they''ve been massively stupid as a club -what''s the point in signing a bright young manager and then not relying on his view in transfer dealings ?

 

[Monty13 2,231]

I know what your saying, but they are 2 points off a CL place. They are challenging. They have a load of new players that are struggling to all bed in, they have lost their best player and main goal threat and yet they are still only 2 points of a CL place.

Arsenal just got smashed by Man City and made to look very ordinary. Is Wenger going to get sacked?

Losing 5-0 to liverpool at home is humiliating, especially post a drubbing in Manchester but the fact is Spurs are still challenging for CL.

It just seems incredibly short sighted. Are Man U going to sack Moyes?

If Spurs were bottom half and had just got the same results there would be no question he had to go, but this decision smacks of a club thinking they are bigger than they are.

You say its different for a club like us, but look at WBA, arguably a club of a similar level to us, and yet because they overachieved last year Clarke gets sacked for not overachieving this one. It''s ridiculous.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Whilst disagreeing (in a friendly way) with other posters'' view of AVB, his sacking together with Clarke and even Jol''s confirms what I and others have argued that sacking is sometimes the easy option.

In all these cases as with City, the harder but better option was to support the manager through the difficulties and use stability as a positive.

[Aggy 754]

How can you say the better option would have been to keep those managers when they have either not been replaced yet, or their replacements have only been here a fortnight?!

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

I think the expectation for Spurs was that by using the ridiculous amount they received for Bale, they could bring in plenty of quality players and be challenging solidly for the 4th CL place.  What has done for AVB is that after nearly half the season, those players and the squad should be bedding in - instead they''ve been thrashed by Man City away and then by Liverpool at home. 

 

That''s the difference between them and us.  Getting tonked by Man City and Liverpool won''t affect Hughton''s job security as long as he''s consistently getting wins against teams lower down and has us safely above the drop zone.  For Spurs, that isn''t good enough.

 

If it''s true that AVB hasn''t wanted the signings they''ve made, then I would feel a bit for him, and think they''ve been massively stupid as a club -what''s the point in signing a bright young manager and then not relying on his view in transfer dealings ?

[/quote]

 

That is how the majority of big clubs across Europe operate - you won''t find many teams in the top 3 or 4 in the European Leagues who give their manager control over transfer dealings. Wenger is pretty much the only one in England any more.

 

AVB would have had a say in transfer policy, but Baldini would be given final say. It is a system that works very well if you have a good Director of Football, it means you can transition between managers much easier than if you give them total control. The best example is Bayern who have been building an amazing squad of players over the years, dispite switching out manger a few times.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

[quote user="Vanwink"]Beefy is a legend wrote the following post at 16/12/2013 11:13 AM:

Van Wink, I await your apology...

You have it[/quote]

Cheers Van Wink - I''m not a rumour monger I heard from the proverbial ''trusted source'' that this was on the cards or I wouldn''t have started the thread.

It does seem remarkable that AVB has been sacked on the basis of two poor results. They are just off the back of two consecutive away wins! Their league position really isn''t that bad.

I just hope that our board shows a bit more sense.

[whoareyou? 0]

So will Paul Lambert be mooted for the job this time?

I think not!

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I can see the point about Spurs being just 2 points off a CL spot, it is a knee jerk reaction.  A lot depends on who they bring in.

 

I think the comparison with Arsenal is misleading.  If you check the times the goals went in, Man City scored, Arsenal equalized, and Man C scored again to go in 2-1 at the half.  They scored another after the break before Arsenal brought it back to 3-2, but then scored again immediately to make it 4-2.  It stayed 4-2 until the 88th minute when Man C got another (with Arsenal pushing on to try to get a goal back) and both teams got another goal at the death.  From the highlights, both sides could have scored even more.

 

So a 6-3 scoreline is a bit embarassing for Arsenal, but it was an open game and Arsenal were going for it all the way through and the two late goals for Man C made it look a lot worse than it was.  Certainly not remotely comparable with getting thrashed 5-0 at home.

[MrMcGoo1809 0]

Sad for avb really especially as their "director of football" chooses the players to bring in etc. However with the change at manchester United maybe levy thought this was the year of spurs to flourish and he must feel they''re not. I hope they require who-ton in some role or another. If they offered a bit of compo they could have him and McNally could get shot without losing to much "face" maybe we could have AVB :)

[......and Smith must score. 1,341]

He seems a decent bloke especially in comparison to someone like Mourinho but I''m not drowning in a flood of tears about it all.He''s now trousered two huge wads of compensation from his last two appointments so apart from a dented CV he''s hardly down on his uppers. No doubt he''ll re-surface at another club pretty quickly and the merry-go-round will continue as it always does.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

This situation is not only bad and mad for managers, it is also bad and mad for clubs.

Another manager to go in short order was Owen Coyle. In some ways that made more sense as sometimes you can tell quickly whether a manager and a club are a fit. Even so, Whelan said that sacking Coyle cost £500,000. That is beyond belief. How can any industry survive on that basis?

[Crispy 4]

Managers must be loving it with regular payouts. AVB probably done better from his last 2 sackings than if he''d have stayed at Chelsea and resigned today.

[Highland Canary 76]

Which members of its alumni might Spurs be approaching?

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Aggy"]How can you say the better option would have been to keep those managers when they have either not been replaced yet, or their replacements have only been here a fortnight?![/quote]

Fair comment. I did overstate my view

The general position is that managerial changes do little to change the longterm trend for a club. Certainly, only Southampton have achieved lasting improvement since the start of last season.

I still feel not sacking is the harder option and I Presict that the majority of clubs to sack their manager this season will not see any significant improvement in performance and league place at the end of the season.

[Aggy 754]

To be honest Cambridge, I was mostly playing devil''s advocate and being a bit of a pedant about the examples you used given that we don''t know how their replacements will turn out yet.

Generally, I would probably agree with you, especially at this level, where you don''t find too many "bad" managers. It''s not like league 1 where you can swap a Gunn (or a Grant) for someone like Lambert. Everyone in the prem has got a pretty decent managerial record and whilst changes may bring new tactics or new "philosophies", they often don''t bring sustained improvements in results.

I think Wenger said that a manager is only as good as his signings and, to be honest, most prem managers would probably have the same results if they swapped clubs with any of their counterparts - I don''t think Mourinho would get Norwich into the champions league or UEFA cup, and I don''t think Hughton would have Arsenal in 14th place. That suggests that, as long as the manager is at a reasonable level of competency, a club''s results are mostly dependant on player ability and money to bring in high ability players rather than the manager. Of course, sometimes you get an individual who is extremely special (or extremely out of their depth) but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

"Bethnal Yellow and Green user="Its Character Forming"]

That is how the majority of big clubs across Europe operate - you won''t find many teams in the top 3 or 4 in the European Leagues who give their manager control over transfer dealings. Wenger is pretty much the only one in England any more.

AVB would have had a say in transfer policy, but Baldini would be given final say. It is a system that works very well if you have a good Director of Football, it means you can transition between managers much easier than if you give them total control. The best example is Bayern who have been building an amazing squad of players over the years, dispite switching out manger a few times

Do you know how transfer policy works with us, Bethnal?