How Has Hughton Turned Norwich Around?

[First Wazzock 902]

Just my opinion, there is no right or wrong.

Hope this helps.

[Warren Hill 0]

It''s not me that needs the help.

[First Wazzock 902]

Warren Hill, mentally disabled man, tests America''s harshest execution law.

Says it all really

[Warren Hill 0]

Moron googles a name and uses someone with, wait for it, the same name to try and be funny.

Couldn''t find anyone called Wazzy Van BellEnd though I''m sure I saw one on Question Time.

[Bill 1,788]

"but the performances are still, at times, woeful."And therein lies the problem, because as much as luck goes with you it goes against.We are still stuck  inept and one dimensional tactics. Sure they have changed - the one of getting Snodgrass to fall over outside the box so we could float in a free kick has been abandoned as has the ''pass it backwards if you find yourself in their half'' strategy. However we continue to sit off their players when they have the ball, preferring some kind of bizarre zonal play. A tactic that will get punished time and time again. More so with the better teams who are able to rack up high scores against us.I don''t doubt a fair number of you will be watching the Sunderland game via a stream If you watc for this failing. Watch how there appears to be an unwritten rule that opposition players should not be marked wehn they are a few yards outside the box. Better to have our players pack the box than it is to close them down. After all what use is an extra two or three touches to a PL player ?Likewise when we have the ball in our half it is simply a case of us trying to keep possession by a serious of pretty passes. Fine on paper and I''ve no doubt of great excitement to the happy clappies and the window licker types who count these things and even tally up the yards the ball has moved. But there is no movement from our players. The opposition quickly closes us down leaving very few options for the player left with the ball in this almost pointless game of musical chairs.I don''t doubt we will survive. The board has indentified and brought in some highly motivated and quality players. Likewise the investment in the youth scheme on the same basis, as well as the excellent coaching gives us good grounds for believing that all the building blocks so to speak are in place. But we should not be surviving because every year the PL will throw up enough teams who seem to have ran out of steam, enough clubs such as Blackburn and Cardiff where off field events are disprupting the team or first time clubs who haven''t found their feet quick enough.So far one notable aspect of the present board has been the ability to hold on to our ''stars''. However I have to wonder if some might get itchy feet if this current attitude from the manager and coaching staff pervades ie other PL teams are always better and the best we can do is to try and thwart them ..... and hopefully snatch the odd win here or there.Time to take off the handbrake Mr McNally and let us see what this squad can down with with a few revs going through it. We need someone behind the wheel with a crash helmet and a fireproof suit - not a man in leather driving gloves and a tweed blazer.

[First Wazzock 902]

OK Warren you can insult all you like but I still have my opinion. If you don''t agree with what I think that''s fair enough. If you want to carry on with the personal attack that''s also fair enough, up to you.

[Warren Hill 0]

And there was me thinking that you were dishing a bit out yourself Wazzy?

Of course you''re entitled to an opinion, even when it''s wrong..😉

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="TracyJacks"]He hasn''t really turned anything around though has he? We''ve just had a better run of fixtures.[/quote]

 

errr... it was all doom and gloom for many when we had a run of fixtures including Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Man C, Liverpool in quick succession, and surprise surprise the results in that run were poor.  Now we''re playing lower teams and amazingly, we''re doing better and are now mid-table. Who''d have thought ? 

 

Upshot is that 4 points from the next 3 games will take us to half way very nicely placed.  Which is all that is being asked of Hughton IMO.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"]"but the performances are still, at times, woeful." And therein lies the problem, because as much as luck goes with you it goes against.We are still stuck  inept and one dimensional tactics. [/quote]

Its times like this you give yourself away.  High and mighty, pontificating and casting all asunder with your sarcastic "wit", you put yourself out there as knowing something about football then come up with a sweeping statement like that  which is so far from the truth its slanderous.  Even as a relative layman I can see the alterations in tactics match to match and even during a game.   Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder??

[*** 0]

[quote user="YellowBlood"]He hasn''t turned things around at all yet but he''s making some progress. We''re still in a precarious position in the table and the performances have only showed a slight improvement in the last month or so. Certainly feel we could have done a little bit more to win the game on Sunday. Those two extra points would have been extra valuable.[/quote]

 

Speaks for me........Huzzah![Y]

[Waveney Canary 0]

[quote user="Wiz"]

[quote user="YellowBlood"]He hasn''t turned things around at all yet but he''s making some progress. We''re still in a precarious position in the table and the performances have only showed a slight improvement in the last month or so. Certainly feel we could have done a little bit more to win the game on Sunday. Those two extra points would have been extra valuable.[/quote]

 

Speaks for me........Huzzah![Y]

[/quote]

 

Only a mad man or LDC would think the fair that Hughton dishes up week in week out is acceptable. Dull, predicatable, uninspiring, non entertaining. The sooner either he is gone or he replaces his coaches with more progressive ones the better.I may have suggested this before I cant remember but I would have Lambert back to sort out the mess.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="Wazzy van Donkeydangler"]He hasn''t tuned us around at all. He''s scraped a coupe of results which is great, but the performances are still, at times, woeful. Thankfully points aren''t awarded on performance. I agree with Lincoln[/quote] Then that should tell you everything you need to know, at least it would if you had half a brain. I''ve said to other posters face to face, when you see that your opinion is mirrored by the likes of Wiz, Smudger or Lincoln Canary, do you think that the world has turned upside down and the irrational has suddenly become the rational or do you need to take a step back and reconsider your position?[/quote]

 

When people see their views mirrored by yours Warren, I''d also question whether they believe in fairies, Farther Christmas and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I''d also ask them what super glue they use to attach their yellow and green glasses to their face. It''s obviously brilliant stuff as the glasses stay permanently in position.

For as much as you slam us for being negative, you can be accused of being delusional and also irrational. You might be super positive but when it comes to facing problems you appear run from them. Its kind of like the underweight person taking the morale high ground over the overweight person. Society believing that being overweight is far worse than being underweight. When in reality both issues are equally as bad.  

 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

[quote user="City1st"]I don''t doubt we will survive. The board has indentified and brought in some highly motivated and quality players.

[/quote]

The board are doing the scouting for new players?  

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="lincoln canary"]

[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="Wazzy van Donkeydangler"]He hasn''t tuned us around at all. He''s scraped a coupe of results which is great, but the performances are still, at times, woeful. Thankfully points aren''t awarded on performance. I agree with Lincoln[/quote] Then that should tell you everything you need to know, at least it would if you had half a brain. I''ve said to other posters face to face, when you see that your opinion is mirrored by the likes of Wiz, Smudger or Lincoln Canary, do you think that the world has turned upside down and the irrational has suddenly become the rational or do you need to take a step back and reconsider your position?[/quote]

 

When people see their views mirrored by yours Warren, I''d also question whether they believe in fairies, Farther Christmas and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I''d also ask them what super glue they use to attach their yellow and green glasses to their face. It''s obviously brilliant stuff as the glasses stay permanently in position.

For as much as you slam us for being negative, you can be accused of being delusional and also irrational. You might be super positive but when it comes to facing problems you appear run from them. Its kind of like the underweight person taking the morale high ground over the overweight person. Society believing that being overweight is far worse than being underweight. When in reality both issues are equally as bad.  

 

[/quote]

Not really old chap, I''m critical, I was critical Sunday when I felt we made the wrong substitutions, what I also manage to be is realistic.

Your permanently negative outlook is amusing to me, you''ve had us relegated by October for the last two seasons at least, the thing is, one day you''ll be right, we will get relegated.

In the meantime though, I''ll concentrate on the positives, I''ll concentrate on us winning games, I''ll concentrate on watching players like Fer, Hooper and Howson at the top of their game, I''ll concentrate on the fact that homegrown City players are making their Premier League debuts.

You carry on waiting for the sky to fall in, one day you''ll be right, I hope you have a long and miserable wait.

Here''s to a 4-0 defeat Saturday!!!!

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="Wazzy van Donkeydangler"]He hasn''t tuned us around at all. He''s scraped a coupe of results which is great, but the performances are still, at times, woeful. Thankfully points aren''t awarded on performance. I agree with Lincoln[/quote] Then that should tell you everything you need to know, at least it would if you had half a brain. I''ve said to other posters face to face, when you see that your opinion is mirrored by the likes of Wiz, Smudger or Lincoln Canary, do you think that the world has turned upside down and the irrational has suddenly become the rational or do you need to take a step back and reconsider your position?[/quote]

 

When people see their views mirrored by yours Warren, I''d also question whether they believe in fairies, Farther Christmas and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I''d also ask them what super glue they use to attach their yellow and green glasses to their face. It''s obviously brilliant stuff as the glasses stay permanently in position.

For as much as you slam us for being negative, you can be accused of being delusional and also irrational. You might be super positive but when it comes to facing problems you appear run from them. Its kind of like the underweight person taking the morale high ground over the overweight person. Society believing that being overweight is far worse than being underweight. When in reality both issues are equally as bad.  

 

[/quote] Not really old chap, I''m critical, I was critical Sunday when I felt we made the wrong substitutions, what I also manage to be is realistic. Your permanently negative outlook is amusing to me, you''ve had us relegated by October for the last two seasons at least, the thing is, one day you''ll be right, we will get relegated. In the meantime though, I''ll concentrate on the positives, I''ll concentrate on us winning games, I''ll concentrate on watching players like Fer, Hooper and Howson at the top of their game, I''ll concentrate on the fact that homegrown City players are making their Premier League debuts. You carry on waiting for the sky to fall in, one day you''ll be right, I hope you have a long and miserable wait. Here''s to a 4-0 defeat Saturday!!!![/quote]

 

Correct, only concentrate on the positives. Point proved.

Without willing to accept the negatives you cannot move forward. Not prepared to go into a discussion over this as it ends up the same way. But you really ought to stop naming individuals on here and trying to shame them for their views. This obsession with grouping negative posters together and trying to ridicule them as inferior supporters is quite frankly pathetic.  

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lincoln canary"][. This obsession with grouping negative posters together and trying to ridicule them as inferior supporters is quite frankly pathetic.  [/quote]Yes, but surely the point is, Lincoln, that it''s pretty much exclusively them(the uber positives) who brand the rest of us as "negatives" . It seems to me that there are very few left on here who do not come in for a rather pathertic dig from them from time to time, and, all too often the "n" word is unleashed at a fairly early stage.All very well, OK. They are, of course, at liberty to use whatever vocabulary they wish, but this obsession with putting a label on a diverse group of fans/posters means that the few people who used to take them seriously have, in the main either given up on them , or changed sides completely.And, heaven forbid, if one of us suggests that we represent a progressive, fair minded, yet realistic, pragmatic point of view, in contrast to their yellow and green tinted tunnel vision, generally another bout of out of the pram toy throwing ensues shortly afterwards.

[hogesar 9,658]

I think the main problem, Reggie, Lincoln and co, is that you have a particular view on Hughton. That''s based upon some poor performances and results and mangerial decisions. That is more than fair enough in my book and i''ve probably shared some of them views.

The only problem I have is some particular posters (i won''t name names) seem unable to accept anything positive. That''s where the frustration comes in for some.

Take City 1st for example - specifically claiming the `board` have made some fantastic signings. Because they''re good signings, the manager isn''t congratulated because City 1st doesn''t like the manager.

When Lambert was here signing players I never once saw City 1st post "It''s not lambert, its Delia''s signing"..

The reality is we''ve had some good results and some very bad results this season. We''ve not set up well against the big teams and that''s something we have to look at. However, we''re 14th. We''ve had a host of injuries including our record signing, our best player last season (snodgrass) and certainly our wing-play overall has been effected by the amount of injuries.

I still think Hughton has quite a bit of work to do - but the signs are at least positive.

[Warren Hill 0]

Here come the "N" word cavalry....

You could be General Custer.

I love it when Norwich win, it''s a results business after all isn''t it?

Apparently not according to you lot. It is while we''re losing but when we win it''s about the brand of football and the style in which we play.

Where were you all whinging about brand and style as we got relegated to league one? It was results based then presumably..

Don''t know why you can''t just be honest and say it''s a personal thing against Hughton, scared probably.

[Warren Hill 0]

Fair points Hogesar.

Like you I''ve had my areas of criticism too, Sundays subs being the latest, but I still saw positives to take from the game, not least that we showed the character to come from behind and get something from the game. Especially after the keystone cops action for the Swansea goal.

Now I could dwell on that individual error or I could choose to remember Elmander and Hooper linking up to produce a screamer that earned us a point and put us 14th in the Prem.

But we didn''t win 4-0 playing like Brazil circa 1970 so I''m going to moan all week....

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

What you say, Hog, is fair up to a point. I''d dispute that I have "a particular view" on Hughton though. By that I mean it''s by no means cast in stone. Like many others I welcomed him when he was first appointed, and early signs were quite promising. But the "view" I have as such is purely based on performances and results, and, for the vast majority of 2013 it''s been pretty poor, so it''s hardly surprising that for the majority of that period my"view" on Hughton has been less than positive.And, I''ll openly concede that after the Anfield fiasco, I called for his departure. But that did not happen,and  there is some evidence that things might be on the up (though as I and many others have already stated in this thread, it''s far too early to be definitive on this).What really gets on my t!ts however is when the extremists from the "opposite" camp (for want of a better phrase) either fail to recognise that many of us are fairly acknowledging the change in approach from Hughton ...some even deny that there has been a change in approach , or try to belittle us by suggesting we''re "climbing down" , "turning 180°" or some silly pigeon hole like that. The real hardliners even rather pathetically suggest that all we do is twist facts , talk the club down or even are not real supporters,So, yes, it''s true that there are a very small group who refuse to credit CH with anything, but, there''s a much bigger group who seem mired in the past and do not recognise that most of us are very open minded.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lincoln canary"][. This obsession with grouping negative posters together and trying to ridicule them as inferior supporters is quite frankly pathetic.  [/quote] Yes, but surely the point is, Lincoln, that it''s pretty much exclusively them(the uber positives) who brand the rest of us as "negatives" . It seems to me that there are very few left on here who do not come in for a rather pathertic dig from them from time to time, and, all too often the "n" word is unleashed at a fairly early stage. All very well, OK. They are, of course, at liberty to use whatever vocabulary they wish, but this obsession with putting a label on a diverse group of fans/posters means that the few people who used to take them seriously have, in the main either given up on them , or changed sides completely.  And, heaven forbid, if one of us suggests that we represent a progressive, fair minded, yet realistic, pragmatic point of view, in contrast to their yellow and green tinted tunnel vision, generally another bout of out of the pram toy throwing ensues shortly afterwards.[/quote]

I am often accused of being uber positive, but just the act of saying anything at all positive (uber or not) sometimes provokes ridicule and put downs by some of our more.....ahem....."negative"....tendency posters.    I try to see the positives in a bad situation because that is the only way forwards. The  alternative is only to see negatives and I don''t want to view this board or the team or follow the football club as a whole with a negative view all the time - after all, supporting a football team is supposed to be enjoyable.   

Every action produces the opposite reaction.  That is what makes for progress.  You look at the negatives, recognise them, then look a positive way of dealing with them.  That is what I try and do.  The trouble is that some people only see negatives and don''t appear to be able to see a way through to the positive and if I am guilty of anything it is trying to get through to people who only see negatives that there is a middle ground - its not so positive that we''re going to be brilliant in every match, but its not so negative that we''re always terrible.  

Its the same with Hughton.  He is striving for a balanced team - in the most difficult league in the world with limited resources.   That is why I view the negativity surrounding him with irritation.  The story is not all negative and never was. 

[BOO 0]

Warren Hill wrote the following post at 18/12/2013 1:01 PM:

Here come the "N" word cavalry....

You could be General Custer.

I love it when Norwich win, it''s a results business after all isn''t it?

Apparently not according to you lot. It is while we''re losing but when we win it''s about the brand of football and the style in which we play.

Where were you all whinging about brand and style as we got relegated to league one? It was results based then presumably..

Don''t know why you can''t just be honest and say it''s a personal thing against Hughton, scared probably.

Stop being such a big girly troll Warren!

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Well, Lakey, there is, of course, a grain of truth in what yo say, but, as so often, you are being VERY selective with your references and quotes !It''s ridiculous to say that all of us on this side of the divide only ever post negative things. Many of us have been extremely critical of the current setup, but nearly all have suggested positive remedies from playing Redmond on the right to replacing the manager, and all stations in between . They may not be in tune with your view on the matter, but that is not to say that they are not positive suggestions ! Most of your group''s positive suggestions are worthy of merit, but just to keep on in exactly the same way as tactics such as the one at Man City,as some suggested, was really not tenable.Likewise, I cannot remember anyone who has ever said we are "terrible" in every match, though I''ll concede that you''ve never said we were thus "brilliant" either.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I keep hearing about this change of approach by Hughton but nobody ever says what this change is? I haven''t seen any change in approach just a change in results brought about by the new players getting fit and settling in. It would be very simple to put this argument to bed though. Instead of keep spouting "change of approach" Reggie could tell us what that change is. Simples!

 

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well, Lakey, there is, of course, a grain of truth in what yo say, but, as so often, you are being VERY selective with your references and quotes !  It''s ridiculous to say that all of us on this side of the divide only ever post negative things. Many of us have been extremely critical of the current setup, but nearly all have suggested positive remedies from playing Redmond on the right to replacing the manager, and all stations in between . They may not be in tune with your view on the matter, but that is not to say that they are not positive suggestions ! Most of your group''s positive suggestions are worthy of merit, but just to keep on in exactly the same way as tactics such as the one at Man City,as some suggested, was really not tenable. Likewise, I cannot remember anyone who has ever said we are "terrible" in every match, though I''ll concede that you''ve never said we were thus "brilliant" either.[/quote]

If I am being selective, I think that is something we all are.  There are some posters that NEVER appear to say anything positive after a win or an improved performance, but immediately go into a diatribe about how bad we were.   Then when faced with somebody who puts a positive view - they can''t handle it.    Generalisation again, I know, but it happens.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]

This positive/negative stuff is really people just trying to find a label to put to what we are trying to achieve -a good organised team that is balanced in attack/midfield and defence.    The balance between attack and defence is the hardest thing to achieve - and we struggled for that  in the second half of last season.   No surprise there, really - and no surprise that the defence has struggled this season with a bit more emphasis on improving attack. 

[/quote]A statistician translates:We are conceding more goals per game than last season. We are scoring fewer goals per game than last season.[/quote]Absolutely correct of you to point out the fact of the matter Purple. I would only supplement this fact ( to date ) with an opinion. I believe, from my observation of a number of teams that I would consider to be in the same "pack" as Norwich, that the ones that appear to do better on the stats front appear to defend as a team and attack as a team. In my opinion, we are not showing sufficient enough improvement on that front over the past year, and the facts you cite support that.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"].  There are some posters that NEVER appear to say anything positive after a win or an improved performance, but immediately go into a diatribe about how bad we were.   Then when faced with somebody who puts a positive view - they can''t handle it.   

[/quote]Well, Lakey, I''m not going to pretend that the sort of scenario you allude to above has never happened, but to my mind, it''s pretty rare...certainly rarer than those in the positive camp who try to spin a positive out of even the direst display by a player, manager , coach, or indeed team as a whole. And, lets be honest there have been a hell of a lot more of them over 2013 than the new improved ones ! So I think that''s the thing we can''t handle. ie the dyed in the wool, positive for the sake of positivity , and go on yes, I''ll say it...Happy Clappy, responses to poor results. Much more than looking for negatives in good ones.But, surely it''s OK to , in addition to highlighting good stuff from improved performances such as the Swansea game, make reference to the less welcome aspects, such as gifting Dyer a goal and making it doubly dificult for ourselves ?

[KeelansGlove 0]

Seriously Nutty ?

We have stopped continually playing 2 wingers to service our non existent target man and at last managed to get some service to our striker.

There really couldn''t have been a more fundamental change. If when Snodgrass is fit we revert to what we were doing before I may lose he will to live.

But for now I am more than happy and looking forward to Saturday.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]This positive/negative stuff is really people just trying to find a label to put to what we are trying to achieve -a good organised team that is balanced in attack/midfield and defence.    The balance between attack and defence is the hardest thing to achieve - and we struggled for that  in the second half of last season.   No surprise there, really - and no surprise that the defence has struggled this season with a bit more emphasis on improving attack.  [/quote]A statistician translates:We are conceding more goals per game than last season. We are scoring fewer goals per game than last season.[/quote]Absolutely correct of you to point out the fact of the matter Purple. I would only supplement this fact ( to date ) with an opinion. I believe, from my observation of a number of teams that I would consider to be in the same "pack" as Norwich, that the ones that appear to do better on the stats front appear to defend as a team and attack as a team. In my opinion, we are not showing sufficient enough improvement on that front over the past year, and the facts you cite support that. [/quote]

These stats prove nothing.  Again.

[Warren Hill 0]

Vanwink!! Or should I say Major Reno, nice to have you along.