Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bradwell canary

Difference between us and the great

Recommended Posts

The truly great teams now and in the past have always adopted the simple Shankly method of pass and move.

The is something that we are very poor at these days.

Only one player in our squad excells at this is Wes. That''s one of the reasons why our passing looks so poor.......lack of movement off the ball. They have difficulty in finding a player who is unmarked. Even at throw ins, there seems to be no movement to receive the ball,then the ball is nearly always thrown up field along the line in Hope.Then a ball that was 100% ours become a 50/50 ball.

One player who is so very good at this is our favourite Liverpool player, who''s name escapes me at present. He is continually on the move getting into position to receive the ball. I know we have not got that quality in our squad, but even lesser players can still learn by watching the very best.

Is this down to poor coaching, or a lack of energy by our players. This would retain possession far more, as it seems that most games even at home we have have a poor percentage of possession. Swansea passed their way into the premiership, and it seems several clubs are trying to adopt thier methods, Everton and Liverpool with their ex Swansea managers are the two best examples of this this year. Again we will never have their quality of players, but I''m sure you will get my point.

I wonder if any of you who are great a stats know of our possession rates as against the rest of the premiership?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good post Ken and I completely agree.

I''m forever telling my eight year old to find space on the pitch. Surely that''s one of the fundamentals in football regardless of ability? And doing so would allow our significantly less gifted (than Suarez) footballers the opportunity to build play. It really struck me at the West Brom game recently how few passing options we had going forward. There were an awful lot of lofted balls from the back - nobody was showing and movement was generally poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think its definitely down to structure and shape. We know Hughton places a lot of importance on this. I would imagine that keeping the team shape and not being sucked out of position are given great emphasis in training. Being a lesser power in the premiership and a team which usually has less than the lions share of possession, Hughton clearly feels most of our time is likely to be spent defending, in which case, positional discipline is important for effective defending. Unfortunate by-product of this is that it stifles creativity as players are reluctant to move into space for fear of being found out of position. Im not sure ability is that relevent when its clearly a deliberate tactic. The top teams are likely to dominate possession and be on the attack more, they have the freedom to allow fluid movment of players. Our players are not given that freedom in order to keep things tight at the back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]I think its definitely down to structure and shape. We know Hughton places a lot of importance on this. I would imagine that keeping the team shape and not being sucked out of position are given great emphasis in training. Being a lesser power in the premiership and a team which usually has less than the lions share of possession, Hughton clearly feels most of our time is likely to be spent defending, in which case, positional discipline is important for effective defending. Unfortunate by-product of this is that it stifles creativity as players are reluctant to move into space for fear of being found out of position. Im not sure ability is that relevent when its clearly a deliberate tactic. The top teams are likely to dominate possession and be on the attack more, they have the freedom to allow fluid movment of players. Our players are not given that freedom in order to keep things tight at the back[/quote]

Totally agree, often the players look unsure if they can break from position by the time they''ve even thought about it, it''s to late at this level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"...and it seems several clubs are trying to adopt thier methods, Everton and Liverpool with their ex Swansea managers are the two best examples of this this year."

Pass and move is not a creation of Swansea FC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can''t quite believe this thread.   In the first half yesterday our passing and moving was excellent.  We held on to possession really well and could have scored two or three in the process.  In the second half  Sunderland upped the pressure and made it harder for us - but we still brought on RVW so we had two strikers on the pitch to try and pinch the match.  

The midfield held their own so who would you have brought off for Wes?  Johnson?  A DM  who was busy dealing with Bardsley and co - I can really see Hoolahan defending against Bardsley and Cattermole - not.  Fer? I don''t think so.Redmond?   Possibly, but he always has the pace to cause troubleSnodgrass?  Again possibly, but he is nothing if not competitive and he was trying to get more crosses in yesterday.

Overall I think we should sometimes accept the way a match has gone, take off the "Hughton doesn''t know what he''s doing glasses"   and look at the match as it was.  A competitive match where we were terrific in the first half - particularly at the passing and moving - and a match where RVW had some match time, and most significantly - won a point, strengthening our position in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"That''s one of the reasons why our passing looks so poor.......lack of movement off the ball."Revised. I can''t quite believe this statement/thread.   In the first half yesterday our passing and moving was excellent.  We held on to possession really well and could have scored two or three in the process.  In the second half  Sunderland upped the pressure and made it harder for us - but we still brought on RVW so we had two strikers on the pitch to try and pinch the match.  

The midfield held their own so who would you have brought off for Wes?  Johnson?  A DM  who was busy dealing with Bardsley and co - I can really see Hoolahan defending against Bardsley and Cattermole - not.  Fer? I don''t think so.Redmond?   Possibly, but he always has the pace to cause troubleSnodgrass?  Again possibly, but he is nothing if not competitive and he was trying to get more crosses in yesterday.

Overall I think we should sometimes accept the way a match has gone, take off the "Hughton doesn''t know what he''s doing glasses"   and look at the match as it was.  A competitive match where we were terrific in the first half - particularly at the passing and moving - and a match where RVW had some match time, and most significantly - won a point, strengthening our position in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched match choice last night and the game I saw didn''t correspond to many of the comments written on this board earlier. I thought we had by far the better chances and those chances were mainly created where as the Sunderland chances were mainly through our mistakes. Interestingly two of the best chances were set up by our inverted right winger putting dangerous balls into the box. Particularly the one for Hoopers header where snoddy pre-empted his movement. We looked better with Snodgrass back. Johnson were immense especially considering we had four attacking players start.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
agree Nutty , regarding the defensive work of bradders and Leroy but bradders passing was woeful, over or under hit ,sometimes to the space a player had vacated , not the one he was moving into. Agree the 1st half was good all round,2nd half , not so, but as as Hansen said ''they''re doin ok''. think there were 5 shots on target each...a good tough even game and a point away from home, s''alright.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Immense? I wouldn''t say immense. Fer was tidy in possession. The game often by passed johnson and his passing at times was poor.

I don''t think either were helped in the second half by being overrun by Sunderland having an extra man in midfield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Spread out" , "get in space" is exactly the kind of simplistic, hand-me-down received wisdom that generations of amateurs pass on.

It''s not the message you''ll hear at Barcelona or Bayern''s Academy. Be careful what you pass on. Practice makes permanent, not perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For reference Barcelona''s strategy could easily be described as "constructive bunching". Exactly what schoolboys in England were told not to do....

It is the opposite of "spread out" and "get into space". Rather it is "overload the strategic weak points of the space the opposition have left by their lack of positional discipline"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don''t know what manual that''s been lifted from.

Barca obvious press en masse to win the ball, but I''m pretty sure once they''ve done so the players will always try and find space to receive it and develop an attack. All the best players find space on the pitch. I really don''t think that''s a simplistic handmedown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Barry the boy"]Immense? I wouldn''t say immense. Fer was tidy in possession. The game often by passed johnson and his passing at times was poor.

I don''t think either were helped in the second half by being overrun by Sunderland having an extra man in midfield.[/quote]

 

Thought they were. If you''re going to play four attacking players away from home then you will need two big performances from the other midfielders. Fer is the complete player for me. Can mix it, win the ball, good in the air, good finisher and play a great pass. With Johnson you''ll know what you''re getting. He''s the insurance. He''s the one that allows the others to play. I would imagine his team mates rate him higher than the fans.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Immense was Fer against Southampton and tettey against arsenal.

Neither were a shadow of that yesterday. Fer was good and johnson, average.

So you''re saying that 442 with two wide midfielders is an attacking formation?

I''d say its a very controlled and balanced formation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.The difference between us and the best team in the country is 13 places. At Christmas 2013 we are the 14th best team in the country. (using the method which we choose to rank teams i.e. a league table)Too many people fail to hold on to where we have risen from is such a short time. To quick to expect us to travel to the bottom side and dominate. The difference between us and them is only 6 places.We are playing football and getting results. My theory is that because our progress has been so rapid many think it is going to just continue at the same rate until we become the said Barcelona, progress was always going to slow down, now we look for consolidation, allowing slow steady progress over the years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
" If you''re going to play four attacking players away from home then you will need two big performances from the other midfielders. Fer is the complete player for me. Can mix it, win the ball, good in the air, good finisher and play a great pass. With Johnson you''ll know what you''re getting. He''s the insurance. He''s the one that allows the others to play. I would imagine his team mates rate him higher than the fans."

Johnson frustrates the hell out of me. His value to the side is obvious, but at times he seems to overestimate his own ability. He''s a master of the art of over hitting passes, and even his short passing can be horribly sloppy at times. We often lose the ball during a period of controlled possession due to his poor decision making. The long cross field pass vs Swansea that sailed 10 yards into the city stand was a perfect example.

He has his best games when he''s winning the ball and playing it simple. When he gets over ambitious with his passing moves break down all too often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...