grefstad 0 Posted December 21, 2013 Shocking game, defended like a Sunday league player. Slow, nervous and put us in trouble on several occasions. Not happy with his contribution.Also, same as I moan about every week, no ball winning in midfield. Fer and Johnson always seem to back off, and we never win the ball in favorable areas. Could easily have won this game with some luck. The difference in this game and the win at WBA is not big. We continue to rely on the home team having a poor day for us to get something on the road.And the red card for Brown was not red, should have been yellow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vlad666 203 Posted December 21, 2013 Whittaker, Johnson, Snodgrass and Elmander all had poor games. Turner was excellent though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted December 21, 2013 well, your right whittaker wasn''t good today. the midfield was better today than previously and the wes brown red was the correct decision, shocking tackle. Could have easily broke his leg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gingerpele 0 Posted December 21, 2013 Oh good the obligatory Johnson mention.I have yet to see anything from Whittaker in the 3rd/4th game he''s started in a row now to suggest he''s better than Martin.His defending seems a hell of a lot worse, his plus is his attacking. But he wants to shoot a lot, and none of those shots i''ve seen have been any good yet. And can''t remember many decent crosses either. So if the attacking element isn''t really working, why''s he in the team when it seems to obvious he can''t defend as well as Martin?The main grumbling I saw about Martin, was him backing off wingers. Well news flash, thats what full backs do. If they go up to the winger, they skip past them. Tricky, pacey wingers want the full back to commit, if they don''t they struggle to get a decent ball in. Martin limits that chance for every winger. Whittaker doesn''t. He commits and a lot of the time it doesn''t work. Sunderland had about 5 crosses from their left wing in second half they could have easily scored from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 1,948 Posted December 21, 2013 I agree about Whittaker and the midfield really missed Howson imo, but how can anyone say that wasn''t a red card? Two footed and knee height. Was a red card all day long (wouldn''t have mattered either way as he was on a booking so still would''ve walked for a 2nd yellow) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyBarton666 0 Posted December 21, 2013 Johnson won the ball back spectacularly a couple of times, we really missed Howson though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted December 21, 2013 there is a reason why people mention johnson,,,,,,i thought he had one of his better games today (which is saying something) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splutcho 173 Posted December 21, 2013 Brown''s challenge was a definite red, only a Sunderland or Ipswich fan would think otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gingerpele 0 Posted December 21, 2013 Well you must have missed the last three Mrs Miggins... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,078 Posted December 21, 2013 Is Martin injured? Not on the bench today, would have made more sense to have him on the bench rather than Bennett as he covers two positions.I agree, Whittaker was very poor today. Snodgrass got stuck in but disappointed with his decisions today. Hardly saw any of Redmond second half - just reflecting our lack of possession or is he in need of a rest as others have suggested. But some poor decisions from Whittaker today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,078 Posted December 21, 2013 Oh and Browns card was definitely a red. Both feet off the ground, referee no choice. You just cant do that these days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted December 21, 2013 GMD,Slight knock should be OK for Fulham, we need him back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vlad666 203 Posted December 21, 2013 [quote user="Gingerpele"]Oh good the obligatory Johnson mention.I have yet to see anything from Whittaker in the 3rd/4th game he''s started in a row now to suggest he''s better than Martin.His defending seems a hell of a lot worse, his plus is his attacking. But he wants to shoot a lot, and none of those shots i''ve seen have been any good yet. And can''t remember many decent crosses either. So if the attacking element isn''t really working, why''s he in the team when it seems to obvious he can''t defend as well as Martin?The main grumbling I saw about Martin, was him backing off wingers. Well news flash, thats what full backs do. If they go up to the winger, they skip past them. Tricky, pacey wingers want the full back to commit, if they don''t they struggle to get a decent ball in. Martin limits that chance for every winger. Whittaker doesn''t. He commits and a lot of the time it doesn''t work. Sunderland had about 5 crosses from their left wing in second half they could have easily scored from.[/quote]So you think Johnson had a good game? Delusional. As for fullbacks, you can''t back off the winger too far because you need them to block the cross. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted December 21, 2013 no i saw them pele. I do love the fact that you won''t admit when he has a bad game though, (which wasn''t today, he did ok) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redders Right Foot 22 Posted December 21, 2013 Thought Elmander had a really good first half. could of used the sub at 60 minutes rather than 77. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted December 21, 2013 Didn''t think Whittaker was that bad. Johnson did ok but his passing is so unpredictable. A simple five yard ball led straight to a Sunderland attack. Such things can cost three points. And he should be told not to shoot - a great position wasted by a wide, wide, shot. But other than that I thought the whole team looked cohesive, with quite a lot of good interchange passing, especially in the first half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted December 21, 2013 Right, full backs.Traditionally a defender, full back or otherwise, is taught not to dive in and to try and force their player wide - away from goal. The reason for this is that if you are a full back they have then got to cross which is preferable to them stepping inside, turning you inside out and shooting.Part of this means that you show them the outside. Backing off in a way to force the opponent to make the choice of going wide. If you are then caught out easily it is because you have been caught a) too flat footed/on your heels b) lack pace.Whittaker was not at his best today by a long shot. He was better going forward but as has been said, wasted a couple of good positions by shooting rather than crossing or looking to create a chance.Defensively I have always said he is not as good as Martin. Pace wise, I have never been able to see where he is meant to be much faster than Martin.Personally I prefer Martin, but that is just me. Whittaker offers something different and I get that, and some games he will be the preferred option for his ability going forward such as today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Chops 7 Posted December 21, 2013 [quote user="grefstad"]Same as I moan about every week[/quote]You should have just posted that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gingerpele 0 Posted December 21, 2013 [quote user="mrs miggins"]no i saw them pele. I do love the fact that you won''t admit when he has a bad game though, (which wasn''t today, he did ok)[/quote]Apart from the fact I do admit it...And the fact people like you seem to completle ignore when I do. I said many many many times on here, probably about half my few posts this season. That he wasn''t doing very well at all this season. But has been much better since coming back. But don''t let the FACT that I actually do allow criticism of him, do admit when he has a bad game, do know he''s not a very good passer a lot of the time, that he doesn''t have a good shot from range. Don''t let any of that get in the way of your ''facts''. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,347 Posted December 21, 2013 Martin hasn''t been great but Whit''s has hardly covered himself in glory.Right back is not one of our strongest positions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted December 21, 2013 True Ricardo.I think I prefer Martin because whilst his final ball may not be as good, he is pretty solid in other aspects of his game.I just don''t feel sure about Whittaker''s positioning sometimes.Although to be fair Snodgrass doesn''t always protect his fullback, or pin his full back, back enough to offer decent protection to his own full back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted December 21, 2013 Chicken,This season''s stats say;Ave Passes per Game - RM 45.5 SW 26.6Pass Success % - RM 80.4 SW 76.1Accurate Long Ball per Game - RM 2.7 SW 2.0So on this basis it appears his final ball is better than SW''s. Defensively he also out performs Whitts (as many posters suggest) with the exception of tackles made, but then this proves the point made earlier in this thread re jumping in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 271 Posted December 21, 2013 as usual its the clamour for the player not starting that is the better one rubbish.Martin has not been great and whittaker has confirmed that he is of a very similar standard; he was not great today but not significantly worse than previous games. Martin remains my preference but choosing either over the other doesnt make us any weaker to be honest.as for todays game I thought olsson had an excellent second half after a weak first. I also thought Elmander was great for an hour today, and our best striker. His effort was great. Could have been taken off earlier but far from our worst player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted December 21, 2013 [quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="mrs miggins"]no i saw them pele. I do love the fact that you won''t admit when he has a bad game though, (which wasn''t today, he did ok)[/quote]Apart from the fact I do admit it...And the fact people like you seem to completle ignore when I do. I said many many many times on here, probably about half my few posts this season. That he wasn''t doing very well at all this season. But has been much better since coming back. But don''t let the FACT that I actually do allow criticism of him, do admit when he has a bad game, do know he''s not a very good passer a lot of the time, that he doesn''t have a good shot from range. Don''t let any of that get in the way of your ''facts''.[/quote]''your facts'' What the hell does that mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barry the boy 0 Posted December 22, 2013 Russell Martin was not injured today. Personal issue took preference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 22, 2013 It is true that for some reason certain posters seem to think that the guy not playing is the better one. I''m looking forward to my night out paid for by CUSDP who bet me in beer that Hughton would never play a fit Whittaker in front of a fit Martin [B][;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted December 22, 2013 Barry The Boy,Your first point is incorrect, which overrides your second. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barry the boy 0 Posted December 22, 2013 [quote user="Ray"]Barry The Boy,Your first point is incorrect, which overrides your second.[/quote]Ray, his mother is unwell. Next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted December 22, 2013 Have we lost since he got back as a regular starter? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted December 22, 2013 Barry The Boy,I know, I also knoiw he was unable to travel through injury before she became unwell. Next Share this post Link to post Share on other sites