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Young Norwich City talent on loan to MLS

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Perhaps some interesting opportunities heading this way for some of our youngsters?

I would be much happier with a young player gaining experience in the MLS than League 1 as they would be able to work on the technical areas of their game rather than getting seven shades of **** belted out of them in the lower leagues.

Would also give them good life experience, travel and just generally be a great learning experience for some of them.

I watch a lot of MLS having family in the US and being a "plastic" Timbers fan and genuinely believe with the increase in talent and ability in that league, it could be very good for our youngsters and with the more time you get on the ball in the MLS, we could hopefully see more improved players than if they were playing in the English lower leagues.

What do you guys think?

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I have some friends involved in youth development of an MLS team (Sporting Kansas City). He is of the belief that the US are not streets ahead of England when it comes to coaching, facilities and development of young players. He is of the opinion that the US are doing things so well, that they''ll be close to winning world cups in 15-25 years time.So, to answer your question, I think it would be a great move for any youngster looking for a loan move.

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Looking at the guys who have come over here from MLS, it does seem to be compatible with the premier league. The likes of Donovan, Dempsey, Kamara, Espinoza have done alright in the premiership. I guess it would be a great experience for our lads too.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]I have some friends involved in youth development of an MLS team (Sporting Kansas City). He is of the belief that the US are not streets ahead of England when it comes to coaching, facilities and development of young players. He is of the opinion that the US are doing things so well, that they''ll be close to winning world cups in 15-25 years time.So, to answer your question, I think it would be a great move for any youngster looking for a loan move.[/quote]....He is of the belief that the US are now streets ahead of England....EDIT BUTTON!!!!!

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I''d agree they probably are more advanced with some things, but they still aren''t fully there. You could tell by the way Kamara used to speak about the game. They get it mentally, but there''s something lacking still on the technical side where us traditional footballing nations still have the edge. I can''t quite put my finger on it. Still, it''s a great place for our youngsters to go and test themselves at full pace against some decent players.

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I don''t know much about the facilities in the US, but in terms of football (or soccer), if i wanted to learn how to use the ball, constantly practicing technique, the main place to go i would have thought, would be spain

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

I thought back in the 90s the US was 15-20 years away from winning the World Cup. 

 

I expect this will still be true in 2033.  We shall see.

[/quote]
Same for England too.  England have''nt a snowball''s chance for the foreseeable future either.
Countries like the US will have predominantly Americans playing in their top league.  So they will slowly progress as a footballing country. While here the PL have created a ''multicultural'' league.  And British players are getting sold short for the sake of ready made foreign talent.   Unless of course these English players are exceptional.
You only have to look at ourselves for an example.  Hooper for England after a couple of three goals.  Jeez that''s a little embarrassing in some ways for English football.

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The US won''t be winning world cups because "Soccer" isn''t their national sport. I don''t doubt the quality of their youth academies, but over here, most youngsters play football, whereas in the States, most kids with an ounce of athletic ability play American Football or Basketball. 

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I don''t know if a country has ever won the World Cup without having a world class player in their team, Argentina 86 weren''t exceptional other than Maradona but he was by some way the best player on the planet at the time.

Anyway...getting to my point, the USA have never produced a world class player and will need to do that before they have a hope in hell of winning the World Cup.

(Cue unexpected USA victory in Brazil..)

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[quote user="kick it off"]The US won''t be winning world cups because "Soccer" isn''t their national sport. I don''t doubt the quality of their youth academies, but over here, most youngsters play football, whereas in the States, most kids with an ounce of athletic ability play American Football or Basketball. [/quote] Or you could call it collage rugby wearing suits of Armour Woofs and silly boys rounder''s

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I should imagine there might be questions of the club being able to watch the games, recall when any injuries strike and a general sense of wanting to keep a closer eye on thingsyes I appreciate there is video, live recording etc but it is not the sameas to getting seven shades of sh it being kicked out of them in L1 maybe that is not such a bad idea, it will happen in the PL only with a little more subtlety so probably better to learn how to cope with it in the environment that they will be playing in eventually

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I think generally the MLS is perceived to give a little more protection to dribbling players and more space for them to exploit. To that extent I''m sure it would give plenty of opportunites for our younger players to gain confidence and technique on the ball. BUT... will that experience help them adapt quickly to the rigours of the Premier League? I''m not so sure. Obviously pros and cons to it, I think it''s quite an interesting idea though.

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I find it very difficult to believe that MLS teams have facilities and coaching standards which are the equal of the top academies over here in England.

The Americans have a way of trying to project themselves as the best at everything. We can all remember when Freddy Adu was going to be one of the best ''soccer'' players in the world. Turns out that he didn''t look out of place in some pretty average teams in some pretty dire minor European leagues.

Then he returns to the MLS where suddenly he is said to be fulfilling his potential again. More like he is playing at his level, where a lot of the players are League One or League Two at best (and make a fast ageing Robbie Keane look 25 again).

The closest thing that they have to a top class player is Michael Bradley, who only really excels because of athleticism and energy rather than technical brilliance.

The truth is the most of the top MLS players flop when they come over to the EPL, including Kei Kamara really. Landon Donovan was the exception, but he was a bit pants second time around for Everton.

Eddie Johnson is one of their first choice strikers and he scored 2 goals in 65 games in England between 2008 and 2011.

Jozy Altidore is once again failing in this country, his record now is 2 in 41 in English football.

The USA national team is about as good as Wales. A few top players at any one time, and then just a bunch of players who could perform in the Championship. Although Wales actually have one world class player.

Their football is light years behind ours and to suggest that their game can catch up with ours (yet alone Spain, Brazil, Holland, or Italy) is complete hyperbole. The MLS is the Championship + A few one time great players who could probably do alright in the Premier League.

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[quote user="kick it off"]The US won''t be winning world cups because "Soccer" isn''t their national sport. I don''t doubt the quality of their youth academies, but over here, most youngsters play football, whereas in the States, most kids with an ounce of athletic ability play American Football or Basketball. [/quote]

Soccer recently ranked as the #2 sport for US kids (12-24) They will only improve.

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[quote user="kick it off"]The US won''t be winning world cups because "Soccer" isn''t their national sport. I don''t doubt the quality of their youth academies, but over here, most youngsters play football, whereas in the States, most kids with an ounce of athletic ability play American Football or Basketball. [/quote]Not the case. Most young kids in the US play ''soccer''.The issue they have is getting them as 14 year olds to keep going, rather than on to the other sports you mention. They''re starting to fix this. The US Collage system has a lot to do with helping, which is getting investment. And the MLS is getting bigger - for example, when I was in KC recently, I couldn''t get a ticket to a game. It was sold out.Plus, the ethnicity of the US is changing. In the south, a lot of Central Americans are calling USA their home. They want to play football.Sure, a lot of elite kids will play American Football, Baseball or Basketball. But remember, USA has a population of about 320 million; 6 and a half times the population of England.One could argue it doesn''t have to be the most popular sport in order for them to be better than England.

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[quote user="Le Juge"]I find it very difficult to believe that MLS teams have facilities and coaching standards which are the equal of the top academies over here in England.

The Americans have a way of trying to project themselves as the best at everything. We can all remember when Freddy Adu was going to be one of the best ''soccer'' players in the world. Turns out that he didn''t look out of place in some pretty average teams in some pretty dire minor European leagues.

Then he returns to the MLS where suddenly he is said to be fulfilling his potential again. More like he is playing at his level, where a lot of the players are League One or League Two at best (and make a fast ageing Robbie Keane look 25 again).

The closest thing that they have to a top class player is Michael Bradley, who only really excels because of athleticism and energy rather than technical brilliance.

The truth is the most of the top MLS players flop when they come over to the EPL, including Kei Kamara really. Landon Donovan was the exception, but he was a bit pants second time around for Everton.

Eddie Johnson is one of their first choice strikers and he scored 2 goals in 65 games in England between 2008 and 2011.

Jozy Altidore is once again failing in this country, his record now is 2 in 41 in English football.

The USA national team is about as good as Wales. A few top players at any one time, and then just a bunch of players who could perform in the Championship. Although Wales actually have one world class player.

Their football is light years behind ours and to suggest that their game can catch up with ours (yet alone Spain, Brazil, Holland, or Italy) is complete hyperbole. The MLS is the Championship + A few one time great players who could probably do alright in the Premier League.[/quote]
Considering our top academies a relatively crap compared to European ones.  It''s not that hard to believe they''re not that far behind.  
Anyway  
Claudio Rena
Tim Howard
Brad Freidel
Brian McBride
Clint Dempsey
Marcus Hahnemann
And a few more.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="kick it off"]The US won''t be winning world cups because "Soccer" isn''t their national sport. I don''t doubt the quality of their youth academies, but over here, most youngsters play football, whereas in the States, most kids with an ounce of athletic ability play American Football or Basketball. [/quote]Not the case. Most young kids in the US play ''soccer''.The issue they have is getting them as 14 year olds to keep going, rather than on to the other sports you mention. They''re starting to fix this. The US Collage system has a lot to do with helping, which is getting investment. And the MLS is getting bigger - for example, when I was in KC recently, I couldn''t get a ticket to a game. It was sold out.Plus, the ethnicity of the US is changing. In the south, a lot of Central Americans are calling USA their home. They want to play football.Sure, a lot of elite kids will play American Football, Baseball or Basketball. But remember, USA has a population of about 320 million; 6 and a half times the population of England.One could argue it doesn''t have to be the most popular sport in order for them to be better than England.[/quote]
I was going to say similar.  The US have more and more South Americans living in the country. And I can see this making a big difference in the not too distant future.

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Claudio Reyna Age 40

Tim Howard Age 34

Brad Freidel Age 42

Brian McBride Age 41

Clint Dempsey Age 30

Marcus Hahnemann Age 41

So if we ignore the fact that three of those players are goalkeepers, how does this tally with the claim in this thread that the USA are catching us up?

You can add Carlos Bocanegra (age 34) to your list.

Seems like they had more players capable of making an impact in this league inthe past than they do now.

I said that they have about as much talent as Wales, or perhaps Scotland, but that is it.

I can''t think of a single special talent to come out of USA, they are all about physicality, fitness and aggression. You don''t win World Cups without something special.

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"Considering our top academies a relatively *** compared to European ones"

Well firstly we are in Europe, didn''t you know?

We have some very productive academies, Southampton have produced:

Gareth Bale

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Theo Walcott

Luke Shaw

James Ward-Prowse

Adam Lallana

All clearly international class.

Man Utd achieved two decades of success with one crop of youth players forming the spine of a team who won the Champions League twice.

Then there was that special West Ham team which brought through Lampard, Defoe, Cole, Carrick and Ferdinand.

Liverpool have started producing some real talents again.

We''ve just had Ravel Morrison come out of Man Utd.

Look how many players Everton produce... Rooney, Jeffers, Barkley, Anichebe, Hibbbert, Osman, Rodwell.

Is ridiculous to suggest that USA academies are catching us up when their national team only has three or four Premier league quality players in its entirety.

Can you name more than four American players that you would like to see at Norwich?

I can name more than four Southampton academy products that I''d like to have at Norwich alone, can that be any clearer?

Americans like to talk themselves up, because gullible people like you will lap it up. Their best striker has been outscored by a ratio of 4:1 by Gary Hooper in the Premier League this season.

John Brooks and Michael Bradley are probably the only two American players who could come in and be a signing of Redmond or Hooper quality (two players produced in this country, clearly).

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Well, that''s an interesting history lesson Le Judge.You''ll have to excuse me if I don''t rebut it with the names of the players from the US who are going to compete for the world cup in the next 15-25 years. Unfortunately, these people are somewhere between the ages of 14 and not born yet, so they''re not quite household names yet.But thanks for the ''history of modern American footballers you know through Google'' stats. They help prove that USA probably wont win the World Cup in the last 10 years.Well done you.

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[quote user="Le Juge"]"Considering our top academies a relatively *** compared to European ones"

Well firstly we are in Europe, didn''t you know?

We have some very productive academies, Southampton have produced:

Gareth Bale

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Theo Walcott

Luke Shaw

James Ward-Prowse

Adam Lallana

All clearly international class.

Man Utd achieved two decades of success with one crop of youth players forming the spine of a team who won the Champions League twice.

Then there was that special West Ham team which brought through Lampard, Defoe, Cole, Carrick and Ferdinand.

Liverpool have started producing some real talents again.

We''ve just had Ravel Morrison come out of Man Utd.

Look how many players Everton produce... Rooney, Jeffers, Barkley, Anichebe, Hibbbert, Osman, Rodwell.

Is ridiculous to suggest that USA academies are catching us up when their national team only has three or four Premier league quality players in its entirety.

Can you name more than four American players that you would like to see at Norwich?

I can name more than four Southampton academy products that I''d like to have at Norwich alone, can that be any clearer?

Americans like to talk themselves up, because gullible people like you will lap it up. Their best striker has been outscored by a ratio of 4:1 by Gary Hooper in the Premier League this season.

John Brooks and Michael Bradley are probably the only two American players who could come in and be a signing of Redmond or Hooper quality (two players produced in this country, clearly).[/quote]
Alas it still doesn''t alter my mind that academies on the whole are relatively crap at producing really decent home talent.  Of course anybody can cherry pick a couple of players here and a couple there.
However Man U''s golden era has long gone.  West Ham''s you listed are 30 somethings  Everton''s are similar etc.  See the point I''m making is clubs are simply not producing enough. 
The reason imo is generally the top clubs have too much money, to worry about bringing on home talent so it makes more business sense to buy ready made players from all over the globe.
Yes there''s exceptions like Chelsea who have a large academy but seems stuffed full of foreign kids.
You see what I''m saying, for every Barkley, Remond Morrison, we rave about here as being potential.  Spain, Germany etc seem to have many more.  It''s been going this way for a number of years now.  And the main reason the England is so crap.
The USA issue, imo as it stands. They''re set up to have potential.  In some areas better than ours in as much they''re coaching their own kids.  Time will tell if all continues, maybe it will if more American businessmen get involved with the EPL  who knows?
And thanks I had no idea England was in Europe [Y]

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]Well, that''s an interesting history lesson Le Judge.You''ll have to excuse me if I don''t rebut it with the names of the players from the US who are going to compete for the world cup in the next 15-25 years. Unfortunately, these people are somewhere between the ages of 14 and not born yet, so they''re not quite household names yet.But thanks for the ''history of modern American footballers you know through Google'' stats. They help prove that USA probably wont win the World Cup in the last 10 years.Well done you.[/quote]
He clearly didn''t check Google stats for Francis Jeffers.  If that pile of crud is a benchmark for what academies produce.  It''s no wonder I think the way I do about this countries ability to produce world beating players.

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What''s all this Shiite about Americans talking ourselves up with soccer? Utter buullocks.

MLS very much admires the Prem. We have no illusions of being better than clubs in the top league in the world. We celebrate Americans who do well there.

Let Juge, you''re riding on old worn out stereotypes.

As for the topic, I think it''s far better for our lads to develop in England with the English game. The atmosphere is so different here. Pro soccer is still a small niche, and for a lad to come here to develop could be underwhelming. Ok, at the academy it might work, but beyond that he''d be exposed to a very different life that might not help.

Stay in England, go on loan to a lower league, and learn it ALL at once.

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"You''ll have to excuse me if I don''t rebut it with the names of the players from the US who are going to compete for the world cup in the next 15-25 years"

My point proven completely. So some people are claiming that the US are going to win a World Cup in 15 to 25 years despite the fact that the players are still in a ball sack somewhere, and apparently I''m the leftfield one. Ha.

Proves my point exactly, how Americans will go on about how great they are and gullible people will lap it up.

Then again maybe there really are some sperm somewhere playing football like Messi and scientists noticing their superior talent through a microscope.

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[quote user="Howson is now"]Perhaps some interesting opportunities heading this way for some of our youngsters?

I would be much happier with a young player gaining experience in the MLS than League 1 as they would be able to work on the technical areas of their game rather than getting seven shades of **** belted out of them in the lower leagues.

Would also give them good life experience, travel and just generally be a great learning experience for some of them.

I watch a lot of MLS having family in the US and being a "plastic" Timbers fan and genuinely believe with the increase in talent and ability in that league, it could be very good for our youngsters and with the more time you get on the ball in the MLS, we could hopefully see more improved players than if they were playing in the English lower leagues.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

 

I don''t have any idea about the standard of MLS but have more of an idea about our lower leagues and I don''t see players  getting seven shades of **** belted out of them. The standard of football has risen in those leagues to try and keep pace with the PL. Our youngsters like Korey Smith and Adeyemi came to no harm whatsoever in League One. And when we were there players like Wes blossomed.

 

 

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"Alas it still doesn''t alter my mind that academies on the whole are relatively *** at producing really decent home talent. Of course anybody can cherry pick a couple of players here and a couple there"

Current English players 21 or Under, just one generation:

Phil Jones

Jack Wilshere

Ross Barkley

Jack Butland

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Wilfried Zaha

Jack Robinson

John Stones

Carl Jenkinson

Luke Shaw

Eric Dier

Nathanial Chalobah

James Ward-Prowse

Will Hughes

Ravel Morrison

Tom Ince

Raheem Sterling

Saido Berahino

Jesse Lingard

Nick Powell

Andre Wisdom

Nathan Redmond

Zeki Fryers

Harry Maguire

John Flanagan

Jonjo Shelvey

Gary Gardner

Considering there are five or six generations of Under 21 crops which go into making a senior team, I''d say that things are going rather well. The Germans aren''t as special as you are making out, they are just very well organised units - particularly the national team. People like Robert Huth and Thomas Hitzlesperger were never anything special in this league.

"West Ham''s you listed are 30 somethings Everton''s are similar etc."

The same Everton who have recently churned out Ross Barkley and John Stones? Two excellent prospects.

You can talk us down if you want but our latest crop of kids is fantastic, look how many are getting games for good Premier League teams.

Germany''s kids aren''t even that good at the minute, their under 21''s are weak.

This is our best Under 21 team for ages, no matter how rubbish they were under Stuart Pearce at the 2013 tournament (where 7 or 8 of the strongest players weren''t even present).

If you can''t see some real talent in that list then you are blind.

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