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Tetteys Jig

What does RVW bring?

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Unlike the experts on here whose opinion is Hooper & Van Wolfswinkel should be played together, My opinion is they are the same type of player and only one should be played at a time. They are both goal predators that rely on the service of others. Therefore we lose a creative player if both are on the pitch.

The substitution of Elmander should have meant a stop to the "long ball" today. But yet with a "smaller" Van Wolfswinkel on, the team didn''t alter their tactics ! The tactics today were all wrong. Example when Hoolahan came on, things started to look up for us. But instead of utilizing Hoolahan properly and passing the ball short - Hoolahan was ask to charge into the opposition penalty area to get to the end of crosses. This management team is clueless !

By putting Van Wolfswinkel on to partner Hooper, Hughton took off the enterprising Elmander. This along with a "lame" Snodgrass meant very little in terms of midfield supply line. So Hughton was praying for a miracle or a piece of "magic" . Van Wolfswinkel needed something special - individual brilliance out of Suarez top draw to pull it off. He needed to score or set one up or he would be facing the firing squad.

Not his fault but firing squad it is.!

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user="iron_stan" quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby" What would CA bring that RVW doesn''t?

goals ?

experience of english football

about 1 inch and 15 kilos extra up front :P

That''s really weird, only last night my girlfriend was saying that I, too, bring about 1 inch and 15 kilos extra up front

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[quote user="Six Pack"]Unlike the experts on here whose opinion is Hooper & Van Wolfswinkel should be played together, My opinion is they are the same type of player and only one should be played at a time. They are both goal predators that rely on the service of others. Therefore we lose a creative player if both are on the pitch.

The substitution of Elmander should have meant a stop to the "long ball" today. But yet with a "smaller" Van Wolfswinkel on, the team didn''t alter their tactics ! The tactics today were all wrong. Example when Hoolahan came on, things started to look up for us. But instead of utilizing Hoolahan properly and passing the ball short - Hoolahan was ask to charge into the opposition penalty area to get to the end of crosses. This management team is clueless !

By putting Van Wolfswinkel on to partner Hooper, Hughton took off the enterprising Elmander. This along with a "lame" Snodgrass meant very little in terms of midfield supply line. So Hughton was praying for a miracle or a piece of "magic" . Van Wolfswinkel needed something special - individual brilliance out of Suarez top draw to pull it off. He needed to score or set one up or he would be facing the firing squad.

Not his fault but firing squad it is.![/quote]I think we looked poorer when Elmander came off. He isn''t everyones cup of tea, and a goal or two would be nice, but I like what he brings to the team.I think yesterday showed a few things, one that Hoolahan really has had his day here, and two, just how thin we are in midfield at the minute, Snoddy may as well not have played yesterday, he looked so short of fitness.You''re probably partially right re tactics, but I doubt very much the management team expected Wes to play some sort of target role.

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Early Days not helped by the negative style of play and injuries. I hope for better though one has to say at the halfway point of the season the signing could be a big mistake

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[quote user="Olly"]We simply do not play to his strengths. Before he got injured we were trying to mould him into a target man, which he isn''t.

He''s our square peg, and Hughton is trying to put him in a round hole. Instead of adapting his tactics to RVW, he''s and probably won''t, thus we will not see the best of RVW whilst he is here. He is a very good player[/quote]

 

Its insanity to pay that amount of money for a player who is generally highly regarded and then not build the team around him or play to his strengths

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Too early to tell if RVW is going to be a success or not. Most of the time he''s been out injured and hence had little playing time to adjust to our league. He''s obviously not yet up on his form or match fitness coming back into a team which is below strength.Even a full-strength Norwich hasn''t yet developed into a rounded attacking unit, a problem that is mainly down to an under-developed midfield. Once the midfield is strengthened and coached to play football which unlocks defences, we can then perhaps judge exactly how good our strikers are. Until then they''re mainly feeding on half-chances or relying on mistakes.

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[quote user="JonnyH"]Too early to tell if RVW is going to be a success or not. Most of the time he''s been out injured and hence had little playing time to adjust to our league. He''s obviously not yet up on his form or match fitness coming back into a team which is below strength.Even a full-strength Norwich hasn''t yet developed into a rounded attacking unit, a problem that is mainly down to an under-developed midfield. Once the midfield is strengthened and coached to play football which unlocks defences, we can then perhaps judge exactly how good our strikers are. Until then they''re mainly feeding on half-chances or relying on mistakes.[/quote]Do you think Hughton has actually ever been able to pick his first choice midfield? I think we have always been at least one player away from it for most of the season.

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[quote user="Macey"]Some people are f ing stupid if they think he is a flop after such a short amount of time, plus he has been injured half the time. Also we don''t play to his strengths, no movement or flow in the team, we play like sh*t, put RVP or any top striker for that matter in our team and they will struggle.[/quote]

Gary....Hooper

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Morty, I think your point about the midfield is a very good one. For me the best midfield combination is quite clearly Howson, Tettey and Fer. They helped to deliver the most controlled away performance I have seen from a Norwich team under Chris Hughton at Stoke. Sadly, Tettey then got injured which was a really cruel blow.

We''ve been unlucky no doubt but you do also have to serious questions about our summer recruitment and planning. Namely;

1. Why with such a shortage of midfielders have we let the likes of Fox and Surman go out on loan. I accept they are not setting the world alight at their respective clubs but surely that is better than having no alternative midfield options at all? Which is the situation at present.

2. Secondly, our best team and Hughton''s general preference until now have involved playing 1 up front. If this is the case then why have we signed 2 strikers, who both despite possessing undoubted quality are ill suited to play up front by themselves?

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They''re not though are they?

They might not work for us, but they have played that role for previously in their career.

But I think what people think of the lone striker is wrong.

I agree with Morty and would go further than central midfield. I think Hughton has been unable to play his first choice wingers either.

For me, we looked far more dangerous when Pilkington is in there making those marauding runs, getting up in support of the strikers.

I think at times this season we have genuinely been set up to play a 4-3-3 but until we got the Fer, Howson, Tettey midfield working the wide attackers often had to drop and help more than perhaps was planned for.

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I am just embarrassed by this thread.   scapegoatism at its very worse.   What are my clubs fans coming to :-$

 

 

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Apologies if someone has already said this - I haven''t got time to read the whole thread - but Iwan Roberts was rubbish in his whole first season for us and went on to become a club legend.

Give RVW a little time - he was just beginning to get up to speed with the Premier League when he got injured - and he''s clearly not match fit again yet.

Look what''s happened with Hooper after he got over his injury and then got up to the Premier League speed.

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[quote user="Cambridge Yellow"]Morty, I think your point about the midfield is a very good one. For me the best midfield combination is quite clearly Howson, Tettey and Fer. They helped to deliver the most controlled away performance I have seen from a Norwich team under Chris Hughton at Stoke. Sadly, Tettey then got injured which was a really cruel blow.

We''ve been unlucky no doubt but you do also have to serious questions about our summer recruitment and planning. Namely;

1. Why with such a shortage of midfielders have we let the likes of Fox and Surman go out on loan. I accept they are not setting the world alight at their respective clubs but surely that is better than having no alternative midfield options at all? Which is the situation at present.

2. Secondly, our best team and Hughton''s general preference until now have involved playing 1 up front. If this is the case then why have we signed 2 strikers, who both despite possessing undoubted quality are ill suited to play up front by themselves?[/quote]Fox and Surman went out on loan because they aren''t good enough for the Premiership, in my opinion anyway.The trouble is you have to cut your cloth accordingly, I agree with your first choice midfield there, but I think that Hughton has had to adapt the way we play, to the personnel we have available at any given time. I think one up front would work just fine with (a fit) Pilkington in the team, as the way he breaks into the box would support a lone striker.I think we have to face the fact that although we have more depth than we did have, we''re never going to have world class talent sat in the wings waiting for their chance. With clubs of our stature you have to ride your luck sometimes with injuries, and I don''t think we have been too lucky in that respect this season .

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Morty, I fully accept your point that we''ve been unlucky with injuries and that ultimately Norwich City are never going to be able to afford or attract top class Premiership players to act as squad players. I also agree that given their respective performances at Bournemouth and Barnsley so far, that Surman and Fox aren''t the definitive "answer" to our midfield struggles.

However, I don''t think we''ve helped ourselves either. Surely it is better some options rather than no options at all? If Johnson or Fer were to get injured we would have no recognised midfielders left. From a tactical point of view there is also the issue of tiredness as the game goes on. We have faded horribly in the games against Swansea and Fulham. So it would have been nice to have injected some energy into the game if nothing else.

As for the 1 up front issue, I agree that Pilkington would provide more support for Hooper and RVW. However, regardless of support I do think you need certain attributes to successfully play as a lone striker. You only have to look at Soldado''s struggles at Spurs to see that he isn''t equipped to play that kind of game. In Hooper and Wolf I see 2 very talented strikers who aren''t cut out to play that kind of game. It does beg the question if CH knew we''d play 1 up front a lot this season why both of them were signed?

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[quote user="Cambridge Yellow"]Morty, I fully accept your point that we''ve been unlucky with injuries and that ultimately Norwich City are never going to be able to afford or attract top class Premiership players to act as squad players. I also agree that given their respective performances at Bournemouth and Barnsley so far, that Surman and Fox aren''t the definitive "answer" to our midfield struggles.

However, I don''t think we''ve helped ourselves either. Surely it is better some options rather than no options at all? If Johnson or Fer were to get injured we would have no recognised midfielders left. From a tactical point of view there is also the issue of tiredness as the game goes on. We have faded horribly in the games against Swansea and Fulham. So it would have been nice to have injected some energy into the game if nothing else.

As for the 1 up front issue, I agree that Pilkington would provide more support for Hooper and RVW. However, regardless of support I do think you need certain attributes to successfully play as a lone striker. You only have to look at Soldado''s struggles at Spurs to see that he isn''t equipped to play that kind of game. In Hooper and Wolf I see 2 very talented strikers who aren''t cut out to play that kind of game. It does beg the question if CH knew we''d play 1 up front a lot this season why both of them were signed?[/quote]Well with the sudden midfield crisis I don''t disagree with your premise of Fox and Surman being better than nothing at all, but I really do suspect they would both struggle in a Premiership game.Maybe CH didn''t intend playing 1 up front, or perhaps he banked on signing a genuine number 10 to play in the hole, I don''t know. Maybe he expected more from Becchio, who knows.He can be proactive as he wants pre season, but he has had to be extremely reactive in his team choices due to our injuries.

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I think you''re right Morty, both could well struggle, but neither are complete mugs either. Fox, in particular, could point to the fact he was voted our 3rd best player in a side doing better than this one is at present.

I think you make an excellent point about him trying to sign a No. 10 to play in the hole and really complement either Hooper or Van Wolfswinkel. I had completely forgotten about our reported attempts to land Toivonen and Quagliarella. So maybe we have been unlucky in that regard.

However, I guess ultimately its all "ifs" and "buts." Looking ahead I would like to see RVW and Hoops paired together against Man Utd to see if they can strike up an effective partnership. I don''t think we have that much to lose given our current form and options from trying it.

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This thread really highlights the NCFC fans with no football knowledge whatsoever.

How you can judge he will be a flop is unbelievable. He has been injured for 13 weeks. Furthermore, he plays in team with no creativity, who''s only flare comes from a 19 year old winger, who then struggles to cross the ball into good areas.

Look at Soldado; a £30 million striker, who has failed to hit the ground running. The premier league is not an easy league and by you expecting RVW to have scored more goals than he has in unrealistic. He needs to adapt to the climate, his team mates, the league. Additionally, Hughton has no idea what his strengths are, neither does he for most of our team.

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Well the other prominent RV-letter in the Premier league is doing rather well, despite scoring 10 goals in 50 in his 1st 2 seasons with the gunners. Admittedly he was two years younger when he moved, but he was also in a far more creative side. It takes time to adjust to the premiership, in all honesty Hooper, who has played Championship football and in Scotland was in a better position in terms of adapting and he still took a while to get going.

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RVW is obviously a class act…

" ...I would like to see RVW and Hoops paired together against Man Utd to see if they can strike up an effective partnership. I don''t think we have that much to lose given our current form and options… "

Agreed. Might as well drop Snoddy for RvW and see what havoc a front three can create between them.

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Morty wrote: I think yesterday showed a few things, one that Hoolahan really has had his day here, and two, just how thin we are in midfield at the minute, Snoddy may as well not have played yesterday, he looked so short of fitness.

...........................................................................

On the contrary - I think the Fulham game showed how much we have missed Hoolahan & this skills. Was not happy seeing him chase long balls. No one said he''s a goal scorer but his passing was good in that game. If the team had passed the ball instead of panicking and being direct when he came on - we might have won against Fulham.

Also I think we have a heck of lot to lose if we play both RVW & Hooper against united.

We don''t just chuck away the game ! Level headed planning is required. Only one of the two should play.

It''s not impossible - we beat them last year. The dynamics of the team was correct - we had the required skill set in those forward positions on the pitch (Holt & Hoolahan).

The problem with Snodgrass is not that he''s lacks fitness - it''s because he lacks talent !

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But Morty, if players are expected to cut the cloth, then Elmander has been a failure. He wasn''t bought in to "dirty it up" he was bought as a striker. No goals in almost 18 premier games doesn''t tell the full story (yes he links up well etc etc) but for a striker that''s worse than pretty much every striker we''ve ever had at City!RVW needs more time, to get his fitness, and confidence back, and to have s run where he starts to play games with the rest of the team. Natural goals scorers always find the net. Holty did it at every level. Hoops is now proving that. I, for one, believe Becchio would have done (why was he never played last season when no-one else in the team was scoring!) had he been given a chance, which he hasn''t, & I''m sure RVW will start to prove his worth given time.But when you;re not scoring much, and your back four don''t even play school boy basics, you''re in trouble!

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[quote user="Six Pack"]Morty wrote: I think yesterday showed a few things, one that Hoolahan really has had his day here, and two, just how thin we are in midfield at the minute, Snoddy may as well not have played yesterday, he looked so short of fitness.

...........................................................................

On the contrary - I think the Fulham game showed how much we have missed Hoolahan & this skills. Was not happy seeing him chase long balls. No one said he''s a goal scorer but his passing was good in that game. If the team had passed the ball instead of panicking and being direct when he came on - we might have won against Fulham.

Also I think we have a heck of lot to lose if we play both RVW & Hooper against united.

We don''t just chuck away the game ! Level headed planning is required. Only one of the two should play.

It''s not impossible - we beat them last year. The dynamics of the team was correct - we had the required skill set in those forward positions on the pitch (Holt & Hoolahan).

The problem with Snodgrass is not that he''s lacks fitness - it''s because he lacks talent ![/quote]
Agree six pack. A lot on here seem to think that RvW and Hooper paired together is a dream combination. I don''t. 
If we are going with a formation that resembles two up top then we are going to be short in midfield and need to play the long ball more. So you need somebody a bit more physical like Elmander (or possibly Becchio) to try to get on the end of them. With either RvW or Hooper, whoever is in form, as the spearhead striker. Playing them both together is a throw of the dice, to be reserved for last ditch chasing of games. 
In interviews when asked that specific question Hughton never comes out and says yes the two of them are the preferred combination. Instead he gives a more restrained well there may be a few games in which the two of them could start. Strongly indicating that for most games they will not.

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I struggle to see RvW and Hooper linking up together given the way we play.

As for RvW, he has only started about 7 games, and it was always going to be a difficult season adapting to the Premiership. Let alone that the management prioritises defence over attack.

I am still hopeful he comes good.

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Not pace, passion or goals. Any remaining bit of skill will be coached out of him by May.

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He doesn''t have the physical attributes to become a success in the Premier League.

We should see if we can do a deal in January to loan a more powerful striker from the continent and loan RVW in the other direction, a player swap for the rest of this season.

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Rvw didnt touch the ball in nearly 20 minutes today did he?

Looked lost, never going to impact a game the way Hoops does... did we keep the receipt???!

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