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Gingerpele

Team for tomorrow?

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Just tweeted this so thought i''d post it as well, i''d personally go for:

Ruddy,

Martin, Bennett, Bass, Garrido

Fer, Johnson

Snoddy, Hoolahan, Olsson

Hooper.

Three changes at the back is very risky, and I doubt Hughton will go for it, but for me Whittaker is just not been anywhere near good enough defensively. And hasn''t done enough in attack to justify starting ahead of a natural leader in Martin. We need him. Reds is burning out quick, needs a rest. Would rather he had more energy going into Palace game really. Hoolahan in to try and keep the ball a bit more.

Elmander, Ricky and Reds/Murphy at the ready to come on and change things up top if/when needed in the second half.

What would you go for, and what do you think Hughton will go for? (assuming Howson isn''t fit, as hinted at by Hughton, and remembering Turner is suspended)

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We don''t really have a reserve side...

I can think of one fit senior player who wasn''t on the bench yesterday (Garrido, and he might not even be fit...).

And putting a youth side out to get thrashed by Man.U would be as silly as releasing them all. Just what a bunch of 18 years olds need...

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Drop whittaker who has been poor defensively,   move to a 5 man midfield or get seriously over run and rest hooper for the palace game - rotate a little to cover for the schedule of games,  neutral on whether RvW starts or not,  but would rather not risk an injury and give him 30 mins at the end of the game again. 

 

Ruddy

Martin  Bennett Bassong  Olsson

Snodgrass    Fer  BJ    Redmond

                   Wes

                      Elmander

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Martin has been very poor defensively so I see no point dropping Whittaker for him and sacrificing Whittaker''s better use of the ball.

Other than that we desperately need one or both of Howson or Hoolahan in the side to bring some life to the midfield.

RVW to replace Elmander. Think Elmander has done well recently but he just does not score goals and we need to be sharper.

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GJP,

Not sure how many times I need to post this and yes I know stats can be misleading but;

Passes per game - RM 45.5, SW 27.8

Pass Success % - RM 80.4, SW 74.5,

My maths says, RM makes 36.6 successful passes per game, SW makes 20.71

Crosses - they are equal at 0.3 per game

Accurate long ball per game - RM 2.7, SW 2.1.

So RM plays 28.57% more successful long balls per game than SW.

So I just don''t get how people say SW makes better use of the ball, when the stats say the complete opposite, even allowing for a bit of damn lies, etc. RM still comes out on top surely.

Of course we can all fall into the proving ourselves right trap, that''s to say we will see what we need to see to prove ourself right, it;s called Dominant Thought and the brain is hard wired to prove itself right and will therefore see the things it needs to see to do so, which is why I tend to look at stats, they are probably less skewed than my barin will be when it serches for the proof I was right all along!

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You are only as good as recent form.

Based upon that I would bring in Martin. Whittaker, who can be better going forward, has not been in recent games, his crossing has been a bit wayward and on a couple of occasions he has chosen to shoot rather than cross in a situation it would be better to.

I really do think we need to take this game seriously. Man Utd are not the force they were a couple of seasons ago and will be missing players through injury and suspension. If we want to get a surprise result this one may be it.

But we will have to be tight which is another reason for Martin over Whittaker.

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Because Martin charges too often into the opposition half, goes ten yards, stops and passes to Turner. It''s not hard to be accurate when you pass safely much of the time

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Neither full back has been good lately. I''d drop''em both.I''d also pray very hard tonight that Howson will be fit.

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GJP,

Your eyes are only the conduit to carry information to the brain, which as I said is hard wired to prove you right by soting through the data and placing into your conscious and sub concious, the information it needs to prove itself right.

Ever been in the situation where you can''t find something and along comes your partner, or someone else, and points it out hiding on top of everything else? Well you probably started with the idea that you wouldn''t be able to find it or it wouldn''t be where it was supposed to be.

It''s what the brain does,

For example, I think Snoddy is crap at taking corners, so guess what, I see loads of his crap corners every game and spout about it after the match, when if I was to watch the match back a little more objectively, I would probably see some decent corners. None of us are immune to this phenomena but it can help if you understand it exists, a bit!

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Cambridge,

Still doesn''t account for the 28% improvement over SW when it cames to successful long balls and re charging forward they have the same crosses per game at 0.3, so all that proves is that if SW gets forward more, and I don''t believe he does, but if he does then RM is obviously making better use of the ball when he does, although I firmly believe they are both playing under instructions to stay back.

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Agree we really need Howson for this game, I actually think th midfield is where Manure are struggling and Howson with Fer could do a job for us and turn the minium one point I expect to three. Other than that, I know it wont be popular, but for this one, if he is fit I would bring in Garrido and move Olsson forward, just dont think Redmond''s decsion making is good right now and maybe better as an impact player for a few games.

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play both the murphys and morris, garrido, bechhio, any fit fringe players, rest as many of the first choice as possible

on a hiding to nothing anywaythen again, play the first team and lose 6-0 and mcnally might grow a pair and get rid of clueless chris

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[quote user="GJP"]I just use my eyes to see that Whittaker is a better player.[/quote]

In what way?

He is I''m no way what so ever a better defender than Martin, he commits to challenges which doesn''t work against wingers. You''re supposed to hold them up, put them off. Sunderland could/should have easily scored against us from attacks down the left, Whittaker doesn''t know what he''s doing against wingers. I really can''t understand how anyone can think Whittaker defends better than Martin. Martin was fine, wingers are supposed to be able to beat wingers easily, the FB is supposed to make it difficult for then. Whittaker doesn''t, Martin does.

Also Whittaker should be better attacking, but hasn''t done anything effective since his return to the team.

I suggest you get an eye test.

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Ruddy

Martin Bennett Bassong Olsson

Redmond Fer Johnson Snodgrass

Hoolahan

Hooper

Starting two strikers against Man U (especially with our current form) would be suicide so I''d bring Wes in and pray he has one of his great games and supplies Hooper decently. Ricky and Murphy to come on as Impact subs.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="GJP"]I just use my eyes to see that Whittaker is a better player.[/quote] In what way? He is I''m no way what so ever a better defender than Martin, he commits to challenges which doesn''t work against wingers. You''re supposed to hold them up, put them off. Sunderland could/should have easily scored against us from attacks down the left, Whittaker doesn''t know what he''s doing against wingers. I really can''t understand how anyone can think Whittaker defends better than Martin. Martin was fine, wingers are supposed to be able to beat wingers easily, the FB is supposed to make it difficult for then. Whittaker doesn''t, Martin does. Also Whittaker should be better attacking, but hasn''t done anything effective since his return to the team. I suggest you get an eye test.[/quote]

I never said that Whittaker defends better than Martin. For me there is very little in it. 

 

Whittaker is just a better footballer. I know Ray uses a lot of stats to add weight to his preference for Martin but stats don''t show you enough of the picture.

 

For example, you could hammer a ball at your colleague''s chest from short distance when he''s under pressure, doesn''t have time or space to control and subsequently loses the ball - but you hit him in the first place and so it''s "successful" pass as far as the stats are concerned. Or you could play a perfectly weighted pass on the outside of your weak foot into the path of your colleague that doesn''t force him to break stride and that would also be a successful pass.

 

Obviously those examples are reasonably extreme but you get the point I''m making.

 

I think Whittaker has a bit more nous in the way he uses the ball and the way he tries to link up play with his team mates and create opportunities.

 

I''ve often sung the praises of Martin in the past - even in the earlier days when it wasn''t as popular to do so - but I just couldn''t honestly say that I see him as a better footballer than Whittaker.

 

 

 

 

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I''d play rvw and hoops give them the game time together against a very poor united defence which has injuries and suspensions! We have nothing to lose! We are very gpod against united at home! What''s the point in people saying rest players and were on a hiding to nothing! Such a joke we should gel the team and not slag our team off! Shame tettey isn''t fit! Bit of bite and energy

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[quote user="ricardo"]Neither full back has been good lately. I''d drop''em both.

I''d also pray very hard tonight that Howson will be fit.
[/quote]

 

Whittaker just hasn''t got the pace to be a premier defender. Agree on Howson. We missed him more than I thought we would. It has to be one up front tomorrow - Hooper. But hit the ball in the channels - a proper old fashioned one up front. and Ruddy has to hit the striker, and push the midfield up to collect the 2nd ball.  none of this kick it to Snodgrass wide on the right cobblers.

 

 

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[quote user="wolfswinkel "]I''d play rvw and hoops give them the game time together against a very poor united defence which has injuries and suspensions! We have nothing to lose! We are very gpod against united at home! What''s the point in people saying rest players and were on a hiding to nothing! Such a joke we should gel the team and not slag our team off! Shame tettey isn''t fit! Bit of bite and energy[/quote]

Totally agree about playing RVW and Hooper - as long as there aren''t any fitness concerns with RVW.

 

RVW and Hooper are our major investments, they are what the manager regarded as the future for us when he signed them. Elmander has done a decent job lately but no more than that. He''s not the answer and he''s not the future.

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Going to take time for RVW and Hooper to gell, Elmander has already achieved a pretty good understanding with Hooper and we should start with him tomorrow.

We certainly didn''t improve when Ricky came on yesterday.

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GJP,

IMO you appear to be clutching at straws to justify your view but that doesn''t make you wrong, in fact it proves you right to you, however, it looks like the majority of posters disagree with you and of course their opinion proves them right to them.

Whatever 11 takes to the field tomorrow, let''s hope the manger has fired them up, or made tactical changes, to send the oppo home with their tails between their legs and then we can all believe in Christams miracles and Santa again!!

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Rather see

Ruddy Martin Bennett Bassong Olsson Snoddy Johnson Fer Redmond Hoolahan Hooper

But probably see Whittaker & Elmander over RM & WH tho

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This is a good test to see the pairing, and elmander has done a good job I totally agree but when he round stockdale he should of had a dig IMO but fair play for not trying to be greedy and being a team player

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[quote user="Ray"]GJP, IMO you appear to be clutching at straws to justify your view but that doesn''t make you wrong, in fact it proves you right to you, however, it looks like the majority of posters disagree with you and of course their opinion proves them right to them. Whatever 11 takes to the field tomorrow, let''s hope the manger has fired them up, or made tactical changes, to send the oppo home with their tails between their legs and then we can all believe in Christams miracles and Santa again!![/quote]

Not clutching at anything.

 

I think Whittaker is a better footballer than Martin. Though I also often say there''s not much in it.

 

Unlike many on here I will hold my hands up when I get it wrong about a player. First few games of last season I was very worried by Turner but it wasn''t long until I said I was wrong and was  then trying to show other people what a good defender he is.

 

On the other side of it, a lot of people didn''t rate Howson not so long back. But not me. When it was very unpopular to do so I kept going on about what a good player he is and will be for us.

 

If I saw Martin playing considerably better than Whittaker then I''d say Martin has to play. I''ve been a fan of Martin since he arrived at the club but I don''t think he''s shown anywhere near enough this season to say that he should be first choice right back.

 

 

 

 

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/| wolfswinkel |\ wrote the following post at 27/12/2013 11:59 PM:

This is a good test to see the pairing, and elmander has done a good job I totally agree but when he round stockdale he should of had a dig IMO but fair play for not trying to be greedy and being a team player

He certainly should have had a shot, he probably regrets the fact he didn''t as much as we do.

Hopefully next time he has the confidence to have a go!

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Assuming Howson isn''t fit:

Ruddy

Martin Bassong Bennett Olsson

Redmond Fer Johnson Snodgrass

Hoolahan

Hooper

To be honest after Fer and Snodgrass performance against Fulham I''d have dropped/rested both, but I''m struggling to think of a viable option for either? Maybe move Olsson forward and bring back Garrido? If Howson is fit I''d drop Fer.

Our midfield options are limited at the moment.

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GJP,

I feel your understanding of what I am saying is different to mine.

I said "in my opinion" you are clutching at straws, so you can tell me as oiften as you like you are not, my opinion will prove me right to me, and my opinion is you are, also as you yourself said you were quoting extreme examples.

However, because I understand that as human beings we lean toward being subjective in our views, I prefer to look at stats, which are more objective, although I fully accept they do not always tell the full story.

When the stats tell me Whitts does a better job overall, I will chnage my opinion, but by then you may have changed yours and therfore we may still not agree!!

Good ''innit!

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