Could standing return?

[Mello Yello 2,281]

Standing could make a permanent return at all levels of the Football League after its 72 clubs were sent a document canvassing their opinion on the issue....just read it on BBC text.

I wonder what NCFC''s opinion to allow standing is/was?

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,410]

You would think/hope the fans may be consulted or asked to vote.

[Mello Yello 2,281]

Do you actually think the support would be consulted by our board of Director''s?

Cheaper tickets should be on the offing and standing may solve our limited capacity......

[JF 694]

Has to happen to try and bring some atmosphere back to matches. Or every club could just hand out free clappers!

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

As things stand at the moment, we''d have to get relegated to have a stand for standing as the PL is not part of this consultation. Also cost of refurbishing stand from seating to standing has to be taken into account. Even if law gets changed, I can''t see all Championship clubs rushing out the same day to book builders and construction workers to overhaul 1 or 2 stands for standing, as seating is going to remain in grounds.A refurbishment of this kind has to be budgeted for and the present times dictate available cash goes on players. I''m glad to see it''s being consulted over but unless it''s meaningful consultation, ie all interested parties, then I''m not sure what the outcome will be.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,410]

I would have thought that a trial of say, two or three blocks of the lower Barclay, (next to the away fans) would be achievable over a summer and see how it goes. Season ticket holders would have to been consulted and maybe moved.

IF the club have any interest in doing this of course.

[kingsway 94]

I genuinely think that eventually parts of grounds specifically designed for standing areas will eventually comeback in at all levels of football, momentum has been been building on this this for years!

 

Its been proven that the Hillsborough disaster was caused by a number of factors other than standing!

 

Modern day ground control, combined with no fences/pens and no standing in exits means that standing areas would be as safe as seated areas and in my opinion standing behind a crush barrier would be safer than standing behind a seat which acts as a trip barrier when pushed from behind!

 

The rail seat design used abroad where every standing fan is behind a crush means that surges wouldn''t be possible.

 

To completely eliminate any doubt whatsoever about safe standing areas and arguements against their safety, if they were allowed I''d have a rule where any standing area would hold the same capacity as it would if seated. EG, the Barclay lower tier currently holds about 3200-3300 while the snakepit holds 600. These two areas are the obvious areas to reintroduce standing areas back to Carrow Road and converted would hold the same amount as they currently do seated!

 

Converting areas to safe standing would be expensive but could be paid for by the huge amounts of money football at the highest level makes from the TV deal!

 

Forget about cheaper tickets because of standing, won''t happen although in recent times we are seeing clubs reduce ticket prices as it is cause they realise that ticket prices have been silly!

[ZLF 271]

great to hear that the standing debate is gaining some momentum even if some regulation changes are still required this is a key step in making it happen.

Safe standing at FCR will not guarantee the atmosphere (plenty of quiet games pre all seaters I can assure you!) but will increase capacity cost effectively. I would not expect a significant (if any) reduction in price though

[Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0]

The mistake made by many who try to promote the argument for "safe standing" is that it would increase capacity.

In fact the system used so far in Europe , uses practically as much room for those standing and has a small seating flap as well.

Nothing to be gained for the club , except a bill for the alterations of removing the existing seats and replacing them with line after line of steel rails .

I prefer to be able to sit ..thank you .

[ZLF 271]

I was not aware of the extent of space need to stand v sit - fair comment.

However some prefer to stand - and I think we should enable a customer to have the choice :-)

[W-H 0]

I''m old enough to remember standing on the terraces and it was rubbish.

I''ve no objection to the introduction of standing areas but suspect that once the novelty wears off most fans will opt for seating

[Juggy 0]

"if they were allowed I''d have a rule where any standing area would hold the same capacity as it would if seated."

That would be stupid. Large empty areas would form and everybody would converge together towards the away fans in the Barclay. In the Snakepit huge empty areas would form behind the restricted view.

Would look stupid, you can safely get another 80% in a safe standing areas.

Why would the club go through the expense of changing without any benefit at all to their revenue? Would be a poor business decision.

The Lower Barclay could fit at least 6000 in a safe standing area, at least 1000 in Snakepit.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

So how can borussia dortmund have 85000 for a league game but 65000 for a champions league game? Not saying your wrong, but if each standing space has its own seat, how can their be a 20000 difference in capacity?

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

This explains a safe standing system in Germany - mentions what increase in numbers can be achieved too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apX5V1IJCW4

[Juggy 0]

"So how can borussia dortmund have 85000 for a league game but 65000 for a champions league game?"

Simple. Only some areas of their ground can provide safe standing, a lot of it is permanent seating.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Yes but if each standing position has its own seat that are ''locked down'' for European nights, the capacity is still the same. The Yellow Wall has 25000 capacity, surely if each space has a seat, this is a 25000 seated capacity as well

[kingsway 94]

["Le Juge"]"if they were allowed I''d have a rule where any standing area would hold the same capacity as it would if seated." That would be stupid. Large empty areas would form and everybody would converge together towards the away fans in the Barclay. In the Snakepit huge empty areas would form behind the restricted view. Would look stupid, you can safely get another 80% in a safe standing areas. Why would the club go through the expense of changing without any benefit at all to their revenue? Would be a poor business decision. The Lower Barclay could fit at least 6000 in a safe standing area, at least 1000 in Snakepit.

 

 

 

 

Kingsway,

 

 

A common misconception of those not aware of safe standing is that they''d think it would be like the old terraces which they wouldn''t at all. In a safe standing standing area every person would have their own numbered crush barrier the same as they currently do with seats!

 

I think that alot of the stand conversions could be paid for out of the huge sums the Premiership gets for the TV deals.

 

What the clubs would get out of it, is respect from the fans and an end to the nonsense that goes on at many grounds every game where standing fans are in constant conflict with stewards and police!

[Juggy 0]

Rogue Baboon what are you talking about mate?

They are locked up for domestic games in the standing areas.

They are locked down for european games in the standing areas.

You can get almost twice as many people in the standing areas when locked up.

Not sure how or why this is confusing you. European competition isn''t something that we need to be worrying about at Carrow Road is it.

Even if we do get in the Euro Cup we would be lucky to sell out 27000 seats for most games against tinpot clubs, unless we are lucky enough to get a whale of a team in our group or reach the latter stages.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

I was under the impression the each standing point had its own number, like a seat. As said earlier in the thread by somebody else, if that was the case it wouldn''t actually give an increase in the capacity - 1 seat equals 1 standing point. If it doesn''t then the rail seat idea would be pointless anyway as we wouldn''t need the seats

[Juggy 0]

In Germany they fit in somewhere between 80% to 100% more fans when standing than they do when seated.

So capacity is massively increased when the seats are locked up.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

I have absolutely no interest in standing and have not commented before but the situation cannot change without a change in the law.

No government will change the law because no government wants to be blamed when things go wrong. It is the same reason that drugs will never be legalised. At the first incident or tradegy, the papers will blame the government.

It is just not worth the political risk. Who wants to the Prime Minister who legalised standing that led to deaths?

Don''t say it wouldn''t happen. That is not the point. The risk is enough and the papers will threaten another Hillsborough. That will be enough to make it politically impossible

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,410]

Le Juge - I''m not convinced of your stats regarding 80-100% difference in seats v seats locked upright in Germany.

There just can''t be enough room for a nearly 2:1 ratio?