why does hughton not get the credit he deserves?

[crabbycanary 2]

Just to talk about one point, without looking it up, how many of PL''s signings played vs Luton?

[Highland Canary 76]

Interesting analysis from City 1st. I suspect that even if we lose the next two games the board will stand by our management team. It could and have should have acted months ago and for that decision they must bear the responsibility.

[*** 0]

 Credit for what? he''s a bloody liability![:S]

[JF 694]

Just to talk about one point, without looking it up, how many of PL''s signings played vs Luton?

Don''t know but if it was a large amount then surely all that shows is that Lambert got lesser players playing above their level and Hughton got the same players playing well below theirs.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

-----nutty nigel------

Has anybody actually said we were getting found out at the end of Lambert''s tenure

-------------------------

You mean when we were on the beach, having been safe 8 games from the end of the season. When Lambert was messing around with the side. In fact that period was better than Hughton''s run post christmas last season and included wins against Spurs and Villa and a draw at Arsenal.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]-----nutty nigel------

Has anybody actually said we were getting found out at the end of Lambert''s tenure

-------------------------

You mean when we were on the beach, having been safe 8 games from the end of the season. When Lambert was messing around with the side. In fact that period was better than Hughton''s run post christmas last season and included wins against Spurs and Villa and a draw at Arsenal.[/quote]

 

So has anyone actually said that? Or are you people just making it up in order to argue a point that hasn''t been made.

 

 

[mrs miggins 0]

[quote user="Wiz"] Credit for what? he''s a bloody liability![:S][/quote]

I wonder why people think this. When being critical of hughton, I would say that he does make his substitution too late in the game for them to make an impact. Also we have conceded too many goals against the big team where our mentality and game plan hasn''t been right against them. Apart from that, I''m struggling. I would have thought other people would be the same, seeing that the positives outweigh the negatives (excluding of course wiz, lincoln, making plans etc etc..)

[Crafty Canary 495]

CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.[/quote]

*Facepalm* Ya think? Thats like me saying "Oh I have gangrene in my foot, I''ll wait to see if it spreads to the rest of my body and kills me. If it does, I''ll get it amputated!" - Once we are in the championship it''ll be near impossible to get back up.

[shefcanary 2,385]

Well today he undid all his good work by not getting to grips with the tactical change of Moyes of playing Welbeck in the pocket. This led directly to the hesitancy in our defence and the fluffed clearance and ricochet that led to the goal. It was not lucky, it was well crafted by Moyes and Welbeck, and piss poor management on our boys part in not spotting it!!

[sonyc 5,491]

Highland....I see the board making a decision if we do lose atPalace. Having sad that I think we will win.

[Houston Canary 0]

Ha! Seattle sums it up succinctly and humorously.

[Crafty Canary 495]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.[/quote]

*Facepalm* Ya think? Thats like me saying "Oh I have gangrene in my foot, I''ll wait to see if it spreads to the rest of my body and kills me. If it does, I''ll get it amputated!" - Once we are in the championship it''ll be near impossible to get back up.

[/quote]

A rather puerile argument. Gangrene will certainly lead to death so amputation is the only recourse. CH is not certain to lead us to relegation so to sack him ''in case he does'' is a knee-jerk and inappropriate action. However if relegation does occur then he and his coaching team should go.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.[/quote]

*Facepalm* Ya think? Thats like me saying "Oh I have gangrene in my foot, I''ll wait to see if it spreads to the rest of my body and kills me. If it does, I''ll get it amputated!" - Once we are in the championship it''ll be near impossible to get back up.

[/quote]

A rather puerile argument. Gangrene will certainly lead to death so amputation is the only recourse. CH is not certain to lead us to relegation so to sack him ''in case he does'' is a knee-jerk and inappropriate action. However if relegation does occur then he and his coaching team should go.[/quote]

Crafty you cannot seriously be suggesting that the current team and the way its being managed/coached it will avoid relegation? We are quickly approaching the amount of losses we accumulated in the WHOLE of last season in one half of it this time. 4 more defeats and we''ll have equalled it. We are 6 points worse off, and all this malarky of saying there will be less points needed this season is rubbish.

This stage last season the bottom 5:

Villa - Played 19 - Points 18

Saints - Played 18 - Points 16

Wigan - Played 19 - Points 15

Reading - Played 19 - Points 10

QPR - Played 19 - Points 10

Current bottom 5:

Cardiff - Played 18 - Points 17

Palace - Played 19 - Points 16

Fulham - Played 19 - Points 16

W. Ham - Played 19 - Points 15

Sunderland - Played 18 - Points 13

So the league is much closer top to bottom than before. We are taking a huge gamble, and are set up to finish with our worst stats in the 3 seasons back in the Prem.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Norwich were excellent today. Many a post on here has exclaimed " I wouldn''t mind if / we went for it/ showed some passion / showed some quality / tried to retain possession in key areas / tried to penetrate and force teams backwards / gave Hoolahan a chance / made substitutions / had a plan / inspired the players / performed against a big team"

The result eentcagsi st us today, but the performance was excellent.

The reason that Hughton won''t get the credit is similar to the reason that a limited number understand the points in Lavanche''s post.

[SeattleCanary 0]

Parma Ham -"Norwich were excellent today. Many a post on here has exclaimed " I wouldn''t mind if / we went for it/ showed some passion / showed some quality / tried to retain possession in key areas / tried to penetrate and force teams backwards / gave Hoolahan a chance / made substitutions / had a plan / inspired the players / performed against a big team"

The result eentcagsi st us today, but the performance was excellent.

The reason that Hughton won''t get the credit is similar to the reason that a limited number understand the points in Lavanche''s post"

No. The reason CH won''t get credit is that HIS team that he puts out fails to do this consistently. Had we have done this 2 days ago against a fellow relegation candidate the manner of the defeat and not getting any points today would have been easier to take. It''s the fact that we can play well, but go missing in games and sometimes just don''t show up altogether!

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Your judgment is not empirical. You are starting from a default position and only looking for reasons to justify it.

The performance today was excellent, as a coach that is what you are trying to achieve. Results are a consequence of good performances and a repeat of today''s performance will win us many games.

The evidence from today is that Hughton can clearly motivate the side and that we are capable of mature, balanced football, with good possession in the final third. There is nothing to complain about today.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

The first half was excellent. The second half we failed to cope with man utds tactical change and then failed to make our own tactical changes to get back into the game

[SeattleCanary 0]

Parma Ham -Your judgment is not empirical. You are starting from a default position and only looking for reasons to justify it.

The performance today was excellent, as a coach that is what you are trying to achieve. Results are a consequence of good performances and a repeat of today''s performance will win us many games.

The evidence from today is that Hughton can clearly motivate the side and that we are capable of mature, balanced football, with good possession in the final third. There is nothing to complain about today.

Exactly why I think you are incorrect. We do not string together good performances. It is for this reason, that we find ourselves 15th. We didn''t perform well on boxing day so why am I wrong? Please explain what exactly I said that was anything but describing our inability to perform consistently?

[Highland Canary 76]

@ Parma Ham - the point is that the management team seems incapable of motivating teams in the matches that matter. Play like that at home against Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City - to name but four - and we''ll likely lose them still. Play like that at home against Villa, Swansea and Fulham and we might have won all three. Says it all really.

[killiecanary 0]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]@ Parma Ham - the point is that the management team seems incapable of motivating teams in the matches that matter. Play like that at home against Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City - to name but four - and we''ll likely lose them still. Play like that at home against Villa, Swansea and Fulham and we might have won all three. Says it all really.[/quote]

This is a very good point Highland. I don''t get it either. But I do have another thought that is linked - the atmosphere at Carrow Road has been dire at times...even when we went one nil up against Fulham it was like a library. Today it was much much better.

Now many on here say that it has to do with performance levels on the to pitch, which I accept to some extent.

BUT - I wonder if the crowd had pumped things up a bit on. Thursday if the players might have got things moving a bit better?

Do we simply expect to beat those teams as a matter of course so we don''t get ''up'' for those and get behind the team in The same way as we did today?

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Very odd.

Within the game Norwich (and a Hughton) have a good reputation for recovering from poor performances and for generally picking up points effectively, mostly from those around them. Particularly when the heat is on. A good trait to have. Perfection is not on offer.

I predict that Norwich will perform in a similar way to today and will win against Palace, leaving us in a healthy league position.

[Crafty Canary 495]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.[/quote]

*Facepalm* Ya think? Thats like me saying "Oh I have gangrene in my foot, I''ll wait to see if it spreads to the rest of my body and kills me. If it does, I''ll get it amputated!" - Once we are in the championship it''ll be near impossible to get back up.

[/quote]

A rather puerile argument. Gangrene will certainly lead to death so amputation is the only recourse. CH is not certain to lead us to relegation so to sack him ''in case he does'' is a knee-jerk and inappropriate action. However if relegation does occur then he and his coaching team should go.[/quote]

Crafty you cannot seriously be suggesting that the current team and the way its being managed/coached it will avoid relegation? We are quickly approaching the amount of losses we accumulated in the WHOLE of last season in one half of it this time. 4 more defeats and we''ll have equalled it. We are 6 points worse off, and all this malarky of saying there will be less points needed this season is rubbish.

This stage last season the bottom 5:

Villa - Played 19 - Points 18

Saints - Played 18 - Points 16

Wigan - Played 19 - Points 15

Reading - Played 19 - Points 10

QPR - Played 19 - Points 10

Current bottom 5:

Cardiff - Played 18 - Points 17

Palace - Played 19 - Points 16

Fulham - Played 19 - Points 16

W. Ham - Played 19 - Points 15

Sunderland - Played 18 - Points 13

So the league is much closer top to bottom than before. We are taking a huge gamble, and are set up to finish with our worst stats in the 3 seasons back in the Prem.

[/quote]

Yes, the league is much closer this season and that''s why it is just as likely that we will avoid the drop as to take it. The sack should follow certain failure rather than a belief it might happen.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]CH is our manager and I support him as he has a good eye for a player even thought he coaching staff have yet to find a consistent system of play that allows them to perform to their best.

However, football is a results based game so if we are to be relegated then CH and his crew have to be sacked. Anything less would be unacceptable.[/quote]

*Facepalm* Ya think? Thats like me saying "Oh I have gangrene in my foot, I''ll wait to see if it spreads to the rest of my body and kills me. If it does, I''ll get it amputated!" - Once we are in the championship it''ll be near impossible to get back up.

[/quote]

 

The last time we had a case of gangrene it was apparently Delia and MWJ. Thank the Lord that leg wasn''t amputated.

 

Has The Butler emigrated[:^)]

 

 

[Rolf Harris 31]

Because he is tactically poor e.g. with the fluid of the team and poor at making changes. Major thing I don''t get is he is a defensive coach but we our shite at defending.

[lake district canary 4,531]

The thing that frustrates me most about some of the Hughton detractors is their intransigence.  The failure to recognise that he does some things right, that sometimes he makes good decisions, that sometimes we win because of his tactics and substitutions (the 88 minute substitute myth is well disproven - average time of subs is 70 minutes).   But no, its blanket "everything he does and could possibly do is wrong".   

Whenever someone tries to argue the case they get knocked back by posters with this fixed mindset. What are they afraid of?  That Hughton might prove to be better than they thought?  That we may get our best players fit and start to get better results?  That the MU performance was a fluke?   That  the wins against WBA, Palace, West Ham and the Swansea and Sunderland point were actually down to good tactics and team motivation?  

We have had several key injuries - does Seattle accept that as a mitigating factor?   Does Che accept that some of our matches we have been terrific in defence and the ones where we were trounced put in perspective by how others have fared against those teams too?  

Its all too black and white.   I know it makes for good argument on a board having polar opposite views, but the reality is somewhat different.   The fact is we''re fighting every week for premiership survival along with about ten other clubs.   It is never going to be easy.  Constantly discrediting Hughton for everything bad that happens then crediting him with nothing when good things happen, is a childish viewpoint and helps no-one.

[BOO 0]

Things are improving, use of subs as one small example, I used to get so hacked off cos he left it so late! now we are seeing changes earlier in games. Small things and change and improvement over time, it is there if you look for it.