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mrs miggins

why does hughton not get the credit he deserves?

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]just wondered[/quote]They don''t like his style.However, Football is not like ice skating, there are no points gained for style.

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Please explain exactly what it is in your view that we should give him credit for? Tell you what, draw up a list of positives & negatives & see which is the longer

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Because he''s transformed a team of lower league punts who played with courage, confidence and positivity and who were greater than the sum of their parts into a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than under PL and, yet again, have less points now than this stage in our return season.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]Because he''s transformed a team of lower league punts who played with courage, confidence and positivity and who were greater than the sum of their parts into a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than under PL and, yet again, have less points now than this stage in our return season.[/quote]

Are you serious?

You mean those footballing giants now plying their trade at Bolton, Bournemouth, Derby, Wigan, Middlesborough and Barnsley? If those players were so good why are they not playing for better teams?

Lambert was a wonderful manager for us who made a great team out of some good players.

Hughton is seeking to make a team from some good and some very good players. He bought seven new players in the summer who are all better than what we had. Some are playing in a new country whilst done are new to the Prem. Many have had their integration into the Prem and the team disrupted by injury.

Of course they and the team are not yet ready or at their best. Of course some of the performances are nervous and hesitant. Blaming it all on the manager is unrealistic and unfair.

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With lower league players ... As new to the Prem as our new signings we won more points and played with more belief and expression.

We are no longer greater than the sum of out parts because of CH.

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No Lambert didn''t make them great. Quite much winning everything in 2 years they wanted made them great. Then reality struct after season in premier league and they started to seem average at nearing the end of Paul Lambert''s era.

Lambert was good for us and his style was fun to watch, but in the table of prem it wouldn''t never got us any forward where we got under him. His skills of getting team play as a team is overrated as all he quite much did was to make them run after the ball and play long from the defence. That wont improve anything else for the future than mayby their lungs. In one and half year in Aston Villa he has not developed his game at all.

Hughton at the times for me is even more fun to watch and his style will make players better and make us develope as a team. Yes we do lot of errors and sometimes we look like out of place, but that is because Hughton asks more from players than Lambert did and they are not up to task (and sometimes he just gets it horribly wrong tactic wise)

Is there better managers out there than Chris? Of course. Is Lambert one of them? No. Is any of the managers we could buy from lower league team or are free agents better than Chris? Possible, but I highly doubt any of given brittish managers are any better.

In my opinion Hughton has done decent job this far and he should be given the credit. He haven''t been any worse table wise than Lambert was and even thought Lambert could keep the lads playing game that suited them better and was fun to watch, at its best Hughton''s team plays a lot better football.

That said we need to improve quite much during the last half of the season or I think we should start to check our options for summer if there is manager out there who could bring a bit extra to Hughton''s approach.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]Because he''s transformed a team of lower league punts who played with courage, confidence and positivity and who were greater than the sum of their parts into a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than under PL and, yet again, have less points now than this stage in our return season.[/quote]

 

What I''m struggling to come to terms with is why Lambert didn''t recruit these players for Villa instead of putting together a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than Norwich did under PL and, yet again, have less points now than Lambert had at this stage in our return season. 

 

Perhaps he thought they didn''t have it in them to repeat the feat?

 

 

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Do you actually go to Carrow road and watch the fare that CH and his coaching team actually suggest is football?

The only thing he can be credited with THIS YEAR is the fact that in two seasons he has failed to improve the team, tactics and results at all.

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Are people not willing to accept that we are a work-in-progress that is in relative infancy?Has modern football/the Premiership turned us into a bunch of supporters who demand instant success? Anyone who was at the match against Fulham could see it was individual errors that cost us rather than poor tactics.People moaned 4-5-1 was too defensive - well we''ve played 4-4-2 for the last few games. Substitutions were made too late, well RvW was brought on with over 30 mins remaining. inflexible, over negative tactics were apparently stemming from the manager, but this has been proven incorrect as well. Results don''t really seem to have changed.IMO it will take a couple more seasons of stability to get the real quality in to push for consistent upper mid-table finishes. Not exactly an exciting prospect, but probably the reality of the Premier League. Lambert''s lack of success at Villa should probably make people realise that there are no guarantees in football, and that sacking a manager who is seemingly meeting his objectives is a massive gamble.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]Because he''s transformed a team of lower league punts who played with courage, confidence and positivity and who were greater than the sum of their parts into a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than under PL and, yet again, have less points now than this stage in our return season.[/quote]

 

What I''m struggling to come to terms with is why Lambert didn''t recruit these players for Villa instead of putting together a collection of hesitant, cautious and negative individuals who, despite costing multi millions, accrued less points last season than Norwich did under PL and, yet again, have less points now than Lambert had at this stage in our return season. 

 

Perhaps he thought they didn''t have it in them to repeat the feat?

 

 

[/quote]

Comparing what PL us doing now with Villa is not as relevant as comparing what PL and CH have done at the same club.

The fact is CH doesn''t deserve credit because we are less effective under him in terms of points and performance.

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Ignoring everything else in this thread so far, I do have to laugh at the nonsense people come out with about us getting found out at the end of Lamberts tenure! We actually picked up more points in the second half of that season than the first and yes man for man we were very poor but Lambert got the best out of them and we had a much better team that year than we have now.

Lambert was no more disloyal than any other manager including Hughton, he was just more coveted, you can guarantee that if Villa came in for Hughton he''d also be off in a shot. Stop talking sh!t about one of the best managers we''ve ever had and one of the main reasons we''re not currently in the same mess Coventry are in!

We also weren''t gung ho either, there was no reason that style of play couldn''t have continued. We scored a lot of goals because we played to the teams strengths and conceded a lot of goals because of our poor defensive personnel.

Hughton is currently getting the team playing to less than the sum of their parts, for a club like ours to survive in this league we need to be playing at least to our potential. We''re far too rigid (to put it very, very mildly) the team has no confidence and hasn''t had any since the 10 game run was over last year and something needs to change. I desperately want it to work for Hughton but so far his tenure on the whole hasn''t been good enough. He''s never going to get plaudits for keeping us ''where we should be'' via absolutely dire football

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[quote user="RollesbyCanary"]Ignoring everything else in this thread so far, I do have to laugh at the nonsense people come out with about us getting found out at the end of Lamberts tenure! We actually picked up more points in the second half of that season than the first and yes man for man we were very poor but Lambert got the best out of them and we had a much better team that year than we have now.

Lambert was no more disloyal than any other manager including Hughton, he was just more coveted, you can guarantee that if Villa came in for Hughton he''d also be off in a shot. Stop talking sh!t about one of the best managers we''ve ever had and one of the main reasons we''re not currently in the same mess Coventry are in!

We also weren''t gung ho either, there was no reason that style of play couldn''t have continued. We scored a lot of goals because we played to the teams strengths and conceded a lot of goals because of our poor defensive personnel.

Hughton is currently getting the team playing to less than the sum of their parts, for a club like ours to survive in this league we need to be playing at least to our potential. We''re far too rigid (to put it very, very mildly) the team has no confidence and hasn''t had any since the 10 game run was over last year and something needs to change. I desperately want it to work for Hughton but so far his tenure on the whole hasn''t been good enough. He''s never going to get plaudits for keeping us ''where we should be'' via absolutely dire football[/quote]

Yes!

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[quote user="RollesbyCanary"]Ignoring everything else in this thread so far, I do have to laugh at the nonsense people come out with about us getting found out at the end of Lamberts tenure! We actually picked up more points in the second half of that season than the first and yes man for man we were very poor but Lambert got the best out of them and we had a much better team that year than we have now.

Lambert was no more disloyal than any other manager including Hughton, he was just more coveted, you can guarantee that if Villa came in for Hughton he''d also be off in a shot. Stop talking sh!t about one of the best managers we''ve ever had and one of the main reasons we''re not currently in the same mess Coventry are in!

We also weren''t gung ho either, there was no reason that style of play couldn''t have continued. We scored a lot of goals because we played to the teams strengths and conceded a lot of goals because of our poor defensive personnel.

Hughton is currently getting the team playing to less than the sum of their parts, for a club like ours to survive in this league we need to be playing at least to our potential. We''re far too rigid (to put it very, very mildly) the team has no confidence and hasn''t had any since the 10 game run was over last year and something needs to change. I desperately want it to work for Hughton but so far his tenure on the whole hasn''t been good enough. He''s never going to get plaudits for keeping us ''where we should be'' via absolutely dire football[/quote]

I think looking at the stats previously that we lost 7 of the last 12 games of the season when Lambo was in charge, including those awful defeats to Blackburn a, Liverpool h and Man City h. My own view was that performances were dropping off.

Now, if Lambo is such a legend, tell me why, with the attacking talent they have, Aston Villa have the least number of home goals of any team in the PL, 6 from 9 home games and only 7 points from those games.

I think you''ll Aston Villa are saying exactly the same things that you are - that PL is not getting the best of his players, Benteke, Weimann being top of that underperforming list.

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[quote user="Lavanche"]No Lambert didn''t make them great. Quite much winning everything in 2 years they wanted made them great. Then reality struct after season in premier league and they started to seem average at nearing the end of Paul Lambert''s era.

Lambert was good for us and his style was fun to watch, but in the table of prem it wouldn''t never got us any forward where we got under him. His skills of getting team play as a team is overrated as all he quite much did was to make them run after the ball and play long from the defence. That wont improve anything else for the future than mayby their lungs. In one and half year in Aston Villa he has not developed his game at all.

Hughton at the times for me is even more fun to watch and his style will make players better and make us develope as a team. Yes we do lot of errors and sometimes we look like out of place, but that is because Hughton asks more from players than Lambert did and they are not up to task (and sometimes he just gets it horribly wrong tactic wise)

Is there better managers out there than Chris? Of course. Is Lambert one of them? No. Is any of the managers we could buy from lower league team or are free agents better than Chris? Possible, but I highly doubt any of given brittish managers are any better.

In my opinion Hughton has done decent job this far and he should be given the credit. He haven''t been any worse table wise than Lambert was and even thought Lambert could keep the lads playing game that suited them better and was fun to watch, at its best Hughton''s team plays a lot better football.

That said we need to improve quite much during the last half of the season or I think we should start to check our options for summer if there is manager out there who could bring a bit extra to Hughton''s approach.[/quote]This has to be a wind up !The reality is that Hughton has taken a squad of players who had a belief that they could win any game to a squad of players who know they can lose any games....... LutonThe football is dire because the players are being required to adhere to flawed tactics. Tactics that have seen us mullared time and time again. Tactics that seemed to be based on some bizarre believe in ''zonal'' football, which usually mean that when the opposition gets the ball near the 18yd box we allow them two or three touches. Close down players ? Err no, Give our players options when they have the ball .... no chance.But we do have the new tactic. The one that replaced last seasons sole tactic of having Snodgrass fall over to get a free kick that might allow us to score. This one involves getting the ball to Redmond who after skillfully beating a couple of players then either blasts the ball over the bar and/or fails to pass to a City player in a better position.From substitutions to playing Becchio when he complained Chris Hughton has displayed a type of ineptness that may have been funny when portrayed by Frank Spencer but is of serious concern when it is as our manager. The board have over the past few seasons brought in some good players with the right attitude, but at the moment they being constrained by Hughton''s almost complete incompetence, they are not delivering. Much as the apologists are fast running out of excuses. The latest one they cling to in desperation is the millions it will cost to pay off Hughton and the other two boozos - a considerable lot less that relegation would cost us though. As well as that fear, is the further fear that we may well see a few transfer requests going in very soon - something that when there was previous harmony would have been thought unimaginable. Hughton now cuts a lone figure, one who appears completely out of his depth. And if, as I have been led to believe, the board are split over his retention, there is the further danger that this could render deeper fissures within the club. There seems little point is in delaying the inevitable and much more damage to be caused by this dilly dallying. However that might mean that one or two might have to accept their error in appointing Hughton, and something, I fear may now be the stumbling block, their actions in driving out Lambert.I suspect we are heading for a rocky old time ahead off the pitch.

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To be fair, as it is with the bottom 11 clubs, he hasn''t got a lot of genuine quality to depend on (tettey, fer, hooper, Snoddy), so he has to make the most of what he has. Defensively, despite the massive defeats, he is strong at protecting valuable results hence the narrow wins and the edgy draws, but he has massively compromised how well we play (Hence the big defeats). It may surprise some to realise we are actually competing at a far higher level than usual and spending £10m no longer guarantees anything. My main gripe was that we had a chance at going 9 points clear of relegation just a day ago and now we are just 3 pts away. As a realistic Norwich fan 17th would do as long as leeds never made it up and we could get on with getting more suitable players in weak areas and be stronger next year (RVW fully acclimatised (don''t fully buy the "adapt time" thing)). We are one of the few clubs who have been promoted without selling our soul and for that i am massively proud (as Henry Winter and his NCFC family is) and long may it continue like this birds arse on 906...!

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Lavanche"]No Lambert didn''t make them great. Quite much winning everything in 2 years they wanted made them great. Then reality struct after season in premier league and they started to seem average at nearing the end of Paul Lambert''s era.

Lambert was good for us and his style was fun to watch, but in the table of prem it wouldn''t never got us any forward where we got under him. His skills of getting team play as a team is overrated as all he quite much did was to make them run after the ball and play long from the defence. That wont improve anything else for the future than mayby their lungs. In one and half year in Aston Villa he has not developed his game at all.

Hughton at the times for me is even more fun to watch and his style will make players better and make us develope as a team. Yes we do lot of errors and sometimes we look like out of place, but that is because Hughton asks more from players than Lambert did and they are not up to task (and sometimes he just gets it horribly wrong tactic wise)

Is there better managers out there than Chris? Of course. Is Lambert one of them? No. Is any of the managers we could buy from lower league team or are free agents better than Chris? Possible, but I highly doubt any of given brittish managers are any better.

In my opinion Hughton has done decent job this far and he should be given the credit. He haven''t been any worse table wise than Lambert was and even thought Lambert could keep the lads playing game that suited them better and was fun to watch, at its best Hughton''s team plays a lot better football.

That said we need to improve quite much during the last half of the season or I think we should start to check our options for summer if there is manager out there who could bring a bit extra to Hughton''s approach.[/quote]This has to be a wind up !The reality is that Hughton has taken a squad of players who had a belief that they could win any game to a squad of players who know they can lose any games....... LutonThe football is dire because the players are being required to adhere to flawed tactics. Tactics that have seen us mullared time and time again. Tactics that seemed to be based on some bizarre believe in ''zonal'' football, which usually mean that when the opposition gets the ball near the 18yd box we allow them two or three touches. Close down players ? Err no, Give our players options when they have the ball .... no chance.But we do have the new tactic. The one that replaced last seasons sole tactic of having Snodgrass fall over to get a free kick that might allow us to score. This one involves getting the ball to Redmond who after skillfully beating a couple of players then either blasts the ball over the bar and/or fails to pass to a City player in a better position.From substitutions to playing Becchio when he complained Chris Hughton has displayed a type of ineptness that may have been funny when portrayed by Frank Spencer but is of serious concern when it is as our manager. The board have over the past few seasons brought in some good players with the right attitude, but at the moment they being constrained by Hughton''s almost complete incompetence, they are not delivering. Much as the apologists are fast running out of excuses. The latest one they cling to in desperation is the millions it will cost to pay off Hughton and the other two boozos - a considerable lot less that relegation would cost us though. As well as that fear, is the further fear that we may well see a few transfer requests going in very soon - something that when there was previous harmony would have been thought unimaginable. Hughton now cuts a lone figure, one who appears completely out of his depth. And if, as I have been led to believe, the board are split over his retention, there is the further danger that this could render deeper fissures within the club. There seems little point is in delaying the inevitable and much more damage to be caused by this dilly dallying. However that might mean that one or two might have to accept their error in appointing Hughton, and something, I fear may now be the stumbling block, their actions in driving out Lambert.I suspect we are heading for a rocky old time ahead off the pitch.

[/quote]Spot on Mr P

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"City 2nd"

City 1st, excellent post, spot on - hit nail on head, full stop!

Don''t say that! He''ll be blathering on for days now.

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I really do fear for Hughton at the moment.Can''t see us getting anything next two games and I think he will be gone. From being potentially 9 pts clear and in 10th place two days ago to possibly bottom three after the Palace game.Don''t think the board,as supportive as they have been,will give him any more money to bring players in to improve team. At end of day any player coming in will have to play to his system which seems to be quite negative. Will any player want to come to play the type of football we have been served up this season. I think the West Ham result saved his bacon but two more defeats now will surely see the end of Hughton,Calderwood and Trollope.

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Mrs miggins. Are you sure got your name right????

Surely it should be mrs hughton

Along with. Morty and Herman as mrsmrsss mistresses

Credit he should get is how he''s still taking the money after how bad if a job he''s doing

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