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The Great Mass Debater

Do you need to beat your rivals to survive?

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Or is denying them the points enough? Consider those who occupy the relegation zone at present. We are (precariously) above them at present. Each time we play one and dont win there is panic on the board. But from their point of view, not beating us is more of a bitter blow (take sunderlands reaction to our recent game). If you have already acquired a higher league position (ie you are above the relegation zone) is it good enough to draw games and deny clubs behind u their best chance of catching you? Theyre below you for a reason and less likely to pick up points above higher teams than you. Whilst we all want to see us beat those in the relegation zone, perhaps we should consider draws good results (any wins as triumphs) and only panic if we lose. Like we did against Fulham

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Or is denying them the points enough? Consider those who occupy the relegation zone at present. We are (precariously) above them at present. Each time we play one and dont win there is panic on the board. But from their point of view, not beating us is more of a bitter blow (take sunderlands reaction to our recent game). If you have already acquired a higher league position (ie you are above the relegation zone) is it good enough to draw games and deny clubs behind u their best chance of catching you? Theyre below you for a reason and less likely to pick up points above higher teams than you. Whilst we all want to see us beat those in the relegation zone, perhaps we should consider draws good results (any wins as triumphs) and only panic if we lose. Like we did against Fulham[/quote]

Yes, yes and yes.   Points that come from anywhere are points that go to the total.   I keep saying it, but some people don''t seem to grasp the concept.  A point against a top six side is worth (at the end of the season) the same as a point against palace.   We stayed up the last two seasons not just because of the points we get against similar sides, but because of the points we  eeked out of Arsenal, Manure, Tottenham, Liverpool (the 1-1) and ManCity.  Yes the matches against our rivals are important, but so are all the matches in a season.  

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No, you just need more points.Last year we got 14 points from 30 against the bottom 5This year it''s 9 from 21Not much in it

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Or is denying them the points enough? Consider those who occupy the relegation zone at present. We are (precariously) above them at present. Each time we play one and dont win there is panic on the board. But from their point of view, not beating us is more of a bitter blow (take sunderlands reaction to our recent game). If you have already acquired a higher league position (ie you are above the relegation zone) is it good enough to draw games and deny clubs behind u their best chance of catching you? Theyre below you for a reason and less likely to pick up points above higher teams than you. Whilst we all want to see us beat those in the relegation zone, perhaps we should consider draws good results (any wins as triumphs) and only panic if we lose. Like we did against Fulham[/quote]

Draws are good results and away draws are very good results.

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[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]Away points are only good away points if you''re winning games at home.We''re also incapable of doing that at the moment.Not good.[/quote]Yet over the last 10 games the vast majority of our rivals have done worse. The figures speak for themselves all else is illusion and speculation.

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Every point is a good point. They are all worth the same. Away points against our rivals aren''t worth more to us but they are worth less to them.

 

 

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[quote user="RvWs 4 year contract"]Good theory but we''re not taking points off many teams at the moment...Sleep-walking our way into relegation. [/quote]

I honestly don''t know what some of you are on.  We are fifteenth.  We picked up a good away point today, with a team not at full strength due to injuries.  We are not in the bottom three. We are competing with every team we play at the moment, games that could have gone either way. And we are still only three points off a comfortable mid-table position.  

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[quote user="lake district canary"]   We stayed up the last two seasons not just because of the points we get against similar sides, but because of the points we  eeked out of Arsenal, Manure, Tottenham, Liverpool (the 1-1) and ManCity.  

 
[/quote]

Well I make it that we have so far ''eeked'' 0 out of a possible 15 from this group of clubs so far this season. This now 2013/14 so your train of thought does not currently stand up to scrutiny.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]   We stayed up the last two seasons not just because of the points we get against similar sides, but because of the points we  eeked out of Arsenal, Manure, Tottenham, Liverpool (the 1-1) and ManCity.    [/quote]

Well I make it that we have so far ''eeked'' 0 out of a possible 15 from this group of clubs so far this season. This now 2013/14 so your train of thought does not currently stand up to scrutiny.

[/quote]So you''ve already marked those games as nil points before we play them TIL?

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Today was not a good away point! It would have been a good away point had we won at home agianst a pretty rubbish Fulham! We lost to Fulham and needed 3 points today!

 

Not rocket science, we are indeed 15th, we do have a point a game average and that might be enough if we can continue this to stay up, but never call a point away to a newly promoted side a good one, these are the games we target to win 3 points from being a thir year team.

 

I do question where the fight, consistancy and any style we have, we were rubbish the second halff and only just good enough the first half.

 

We now need to beat more than our rivals to survive, we need to get a reesult or two against the better teams too!

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Points are enough late in the season with games running out.

What we appear to be doing is sustaining momentum for clubs around us. Fulham have quality and are picking up, Cardiff will have a new manager, Palace have new found belief - and other posters have acknowledged are improving. West Ham may change manager.

We have no momentum, belief, or quality, and look at present, no better than Sunderland or Palace.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]   We stayed up the last two seasons not just because of the points we get against similar sides, but because of the points we  eeked out of Arsenal, Manure, Tottenham, Liverpool (the 1-1) and ManCity.  

 
[/quote]

Well I make it that we have so far ''eeked'' 0 out of a possible 15 from this group of clubs so far this season. This now 2013/14 so your train of thought does not currently stand up to scrutiny.

[/quote]

So you''ve already marked those games as nil points before we play them TIL?
[/quote]

0 out of 15 at the halfway stage out of a season possible 30 Ricardo as I thought we had already played them once during 13/14.

Would this be a good time to point out that last season we won at Man City and beat Man Utd at home so we are 6 points down on LDC''s theory already.

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Well I still think it was a good point Indy. Especially after hearing from so many that it was the best we could hope for before the game and that in all reality we would most likely lose. What puzzles me a little is how those who were convinced we''d lose can appear so disappointed with a point.....

 

 

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