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nutty nigel

Would relegation be a fair price to pay for Hughton's removal?

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Many people on here seem to think we''ll stay up but they still want Hughton gone. I''m sure even the most ardent Hughton outers would accept that changing managers is a lottery. But despite this they still clamour for change. WTF?

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I''m sure there are some on here (many of whom I think are probably just stirring and don''t believe most of what they write anyway) who would rather get relegated and sack Hughton than be a bottom half premiership team who is always going to be in and around the threat of relegation.

The argument about Hughton''s style of play and "the championship being more exciting" is possibly fair. But how do you know that we''ll get more excitement in the championship? Is excitement being in a relegation battle in the championship? Is it finishing in the playoffs or just missing out every year? A new manager could be more boring than Hughton. Look at teams like Forest - I''m sure they''d give up the "excitement" of the championship for another season in the prem, when was the last time they were up here?

Bottom line for me is that the premiership is the best league in the world. I would rather be in it with Hughton than out of it with someone else. I don''t get bored by scrappy draws and poor performances. And I think many people who complain about such things don''t get bored either - we''ll always find something to moan about as fans, if people were truly as bored and apathetic towards the club at the moment as they make out, why rush back after a game and post on the pinkun about being so bored and apathetic towards it?

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Surely a lot of the drive to change managers is the fear of relegation though. I think most who want him out feel we might be relegated if he stays in charge and that we might have a better chance changing manager. Im not sure when safety became guaranteed with Hughton in charge. But to answer your sepcific question, if sticking with Hughton guaranteed survival and changing guaranteed relegation, then no, I would prefer we stayed up thanks. A rather strange hypothetical question though as no one knows what is going to happen. There is a gamble in sticking with the manager, there is a gamble in changing the manager. The real question is how many fans would prefer to gamble. Its almost parallel to the should we go for the win or protect a point/''respectable'' (ahem) defeat. I doubt there are many fans who would gladly suffer relegation to facilitate the removal of the manager - I doubt the hate for him is as personal as that and more based on the fact that people want the club to be more successful, not less.

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Many posters have stated that they believe Hughton will keep us up but they want him gone. That''s the thinking that brought about this thread.

 

 

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[quote user="Aggy"]I''m sure there are some on here (many of whom I think are probably just stirring and don''t believe most of what they write anyway) who would rather get relegated and sack Hughton than be a bottom half premiership team who is always going to be in and around the threat of relegation. The argument about Hughton''s style of play and "the championship being more exciting" is possibly fair. But how do you know that we''ll get more excitement in the championship? Is excitement being in a relegation battle in the championship? Is it finishing in the playoffs or just missing out every year? A new manager could be more boring than Hughton. Look at teams like Forest - I''m sure they''d give up the "excitement" of the championship for another season in the prem, when was the last time they were up here? Bottom line for me is that the premiership is the best league in the world. I would rather be in it with Hughton than out of it with someone else. I don''t get bored by scrappy draws and poor performances. And I think many people who complain about such things don''t get bored either - we''ll always find something to moan about as fans, if people were truly as bored and apathetic towards the club at the moment as they make out, why rush back after a game and post on the pinkun about being so bored and apathetic towards it?[/quote]

 

Agree with wanting to play in the best league in the world and certainly would not take relegation to get rid of Hughton, but disagree with not bein bored out of my mind at some games this year! We used to have threads on here questioning Stoke fans, why do they put up with such dire football under Pulis. We have at times been utterly boring and not entertained at all!

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Many posters have stated that they believe Hughton will keep us up but they want him gone. That''s the thinking that brought about this thread.

 

 

[/quote]

 

But is he the only manager capable of keeping us up? Think a lot of people think we could have a manager who would bring a better brand of football AND stay up. Dont see why abandoning Hughtons approach means certain relegation

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I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D]

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Indeed I thought Lambert was the only manager capable of keeping us up and that when he left I felt the bubble would burst and we''d be relegated. I thought this because Lambert was so integral in getting such performances out of average players. Hughton brought in better players and thankfully we were able to stay up, thus proving that another guy could do the job as well

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Many posters have stated that they believe Hughton will keep us up but they want him gone. That''s the thinking that brought about this thread.

 

 

[/quote]

 

But is he the only manager capable of keeping us up? Think a lot of people think we could have a manager who would bring a better brand of football AND stay up. Dont see why abandoning Hughtons approach means certain relegation

[/quote]

 

It doesn''t. But if you believe we will be safe under Hughton why risk that change now?

 

 

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[quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]Then you will get  a Worthington situation where the crowd turns against the manager , Board and even certain players .

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="nutty nigel"]Many posters have stated that they believe Hughton will keep us up but they want him gone. That''s the thinking that brought about this thread.[/quote]But is he the only manager capable of keeping us up? Think a lot of people think we could have a manager who would bring a better brand of football AND stay up. Dont see why abandoning Hughtons approach means certain relegation[/quote]Spot on TGMD.We''re talking complete unknown''s here, but to me there are four main possibilities:A) We keep Hughton and stay upB) We keep Hughton and get relegatedC) We sack Hughton and stay upD) We sack Hughton and get relegatedThe truth is that any of those four could happen, so it could easily be argued that we have a 50/50 chance to stay up REGARDLESS of whether we keep Hughton or not...So then the question really comes down to whether or not you think that appointing another manager in the near future will both keep us up, but also provide a better standard of football than we are currently watching under Hughton, and again we simply don''t know the answer.I personally would rather see a more dynamic, attacking and passing focused manager come in to take over, as I simply cannot bear to watch another season of the crap we''ve had under Hughton since his appointment - regardless of us being in the top flight, as it''s simply embarrasing at times, and absolutely NOT worth paying to watch 9 times out 10...

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Do people consider that we have players good enough to play the dynamic passing game, they so crave, in this league?In my opinion we''re still a few good quality players away from being able to dictate more games how we like.

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[quote user="CanaryOne"][quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]Then you will get  a Worthington situation where the crowd turns against the manager , Board and even certain players .[/quote] I wouldn''t bet on it, we''ve been relegated before and not sacked the manager.

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To be fair if we were relegated he may well be the best option of getting us straight back up.

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Surely the question is not who would do aswell as CH, but who would do better ?

We are where we deserve to be on money spent, money coming in, size of fanbase, club, and just about any other measure you could consider using.

Previous managers have been accused of not getting 100% from the players.

I don''t see anyone slacking at the moment, but maybe I''m watching a different set of games to other people.

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[quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]
Inappropriate use of a smiley perhaps?
Because personally, i wouldn''t be happy-facing all over the forum if we got relegated with this squad and we kept a manager who had failed.
Interesting to see it from your side, though.

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[quote user="morty"]Do people consider that we have players good enough to play the dynamic passing game, they so crave, in this league?In my opinion we''re still a few good quality players away from being able to dictate more games how we like.[/quote]Very good point Morty.I''d argue that we do have the right players in many ways, but simply that we aren''t getting the best out of what we have.Players like Fer, Howson and even Tettey are more than capable of playing consistent passes in the centre of the park (even if Tettey is making simple 5 yard balls to players with better distribution ability), but both Howson and Fer need to be given more attacking licence, whilst leaving the primary defensive duties to Tettey (they will also help him out of course).We have wingers who are more than capable of crossing a ball, we just need them to focus more on this instead of trying to constantly beat a man (Snoddy is notorious for this, and Redmond can have his moments as well). Consider as well that under Lambert, Pilks was managing a 34% cross accuracy - as good as ANY other winger in the league, including multi-million pound superstars...Both Hooper and RVW will thrive on good passes and crosses to them, especially if we don''t try to insist that either tries to play a traditional ''target man'' role much like Holt used to do (or how Hughton used Carroll/Zigic), and instead use them in a more fluid setup where either can drop back whilst the other pushes forward (much like Rooney does for Man Utd).Look at it logically, Swansea were winning all the plaudits for their passing game under Rogers (and to some extent under Laudrup) and I certainly wouldn''t say that they had a particularly more technically gifted squad than we do/did, so whilst we can''t expect to see football like Barca/Arsenal serve up each week, there can be a definite improvement in the way we choose play from how Hughton is currently asking them to setup.I''d agree that we probably do need a couple more players of real quality across the squad to be fully effective, but let''s be honest - it can''t get much worse than what we''re currently seeing each week now anyway can it???

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]
Inappropriate use of a smiley perhaps?
Because personally, i wouldn''t be happy-facing all over the forum if we got relegated with this squad and we kept a manager who had failed.
Interesting to see it from your side, though.
[/quote]Well, most times  I have to say that it does make me laugh when I come on here. Although I must admit to having done some wailing and teeth gnashing in years gone by. A perspective of many decades has taught me to see it in a calmer light.

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My view is that its a gamble either way. We are certainly not doomed to relegation under Hughton but there is a real risk he may take us down. My own belief is that Mcnally will be able to get a good replacement and that any half decent manager would have us playing better and securing more points over the second half of the season than Hughton.

I therefore accept its a gamble but think its a gamble worth taking. I also think sticking with Hughton is a big gamble as well and based in our performance over the last 12 months probably more of a gamble than replacing him.

I accept however that the longer the season goes on the more of a gamble changing the manager is. If we are going to do it we have to do it now. If not then we must stick with him, cross our fingers he can do enough to keep us up and then get rid in the summer.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]
Inappropriate use of a smiley perhaps?
Because personally, i wouldn''t be happy-facing all over the forum if we got relegated with this squad and we kept a manager who had failed.
Interesting to see it from your side, though.
[/quote]Well, most times  I have to say that it does make me laugh when I come on here. Although I must admit to having done some wailing and teeth gnashing in years gone by. A perspective of many decades has taught me to see it in a calmer light.[/quote]
Something i don''t benefit from! [:)]

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="ricardo"]I wonder what the feeling would be, should we get relegated and the manager stay in place?My feeling is that in those circumstances it is the most likely scenario.Much wailing and teeth gnashing would occur on here[:D][/quote]
Inappropriate use of a smiley perhaps?
Because personally, i wouldn''t be happy-facing all over the forum if we got relegated with this squad and we kept a manager who had failed.
Interesting to see it from your side, though.
[/quote]Well, most times  I have to say that it does make me laugh when I come on here. Although I must admit to having done some wailing and teeth gnashing in years gone by. A perspective of many decades has taught me to see it in a calmer light.[/quote]
Something i don''t benefit from! [:)]
[/quote]The question you''ve got to ask yourself is will you last the course?Many temptations lay in wait for the unwary, girlfriends, wives, overtime at work, Saturday shopping, loss of enthusiasm through too may years of failure.You lucky boy, you''ve got it all in front of you.[;)]

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If Houghton is to be sacked it has to be now so that a new manager can do something in the transfer window, if not we should stick with him and just hope that there are three worse sides out there!

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Fair Indy, like I said, personally I don''t find it boring, I don''t think I would have got bored at Stoke, but if people are genuinely bored by it then that''s up to them.

The counter argument is that how many of the sides in the bottom half play differently? How many of them are playing free flowing, high scoring football? Swansea are the only team in the bottom half getting anywhere near scoring 1.5 a game, and even they''re beginning to plummet down the league. The majority of the rest are scoring under 1. Even when you look at the top of the league, how many teams play great free flowing football? City at home maybe, otherwise they''re all pretty much hit and miss and often built on strong defence first and foremost. There are only two teams in the entire division who have scored 2 a game. Now whilst you don''t expect many teams to be scoring 2 a game, I would wager that there are far fewer goals being scored this season than there were 10 years ago.

A change of manager wouldn''t guarantee a better style. In fact, I would say that most nowadays go towards the defensive side of things. You do get cycles of ''styles'' and formations. At the moment, it''s fairly dull across the board in this country. I''m not sure a new manager would change it for us all that much.

As mentioned above, until we can afford real top quality players who can do the defensive work first AND then add the quality, I''m not sure we''d be playing thrilling football regardless of the manager.

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I don''t thing we need to pay the price of relegation for Hughton to leave in the summer.

When it comes to changing managers timing is everything. October might have been the right time, now most probably isn''t.

If you want to attract a decent manager you have to be an attractive proposition to them; right now we are not. We are a struggling Premiership team, with relatively lowly paid players, and a heavy injury list.

By the time he''d been appointed and found his way to Colney any new incumbent would have about a fortnight to strengthen the squad.

And don''t forget that because of the way the fixtures pan out effectively survival would have to be achieved in his first dozen or so games. That''s a tough ask.

And supposing we wanted someone currently doing well, even if lower down the league? Even if they were interested in coming here their current employers wouldn''t even let us speak to them at this stage of the season. (Not that that might stop McNally....)

No, let''s roll forward to May. We will then be a much more attractive proposition.

Hopefully we will be an established Premiership club going into its fourth season, but with the challenge of improving the entertainment on offer. What''s not to like? What happened to Pullis last season can, and should, happen to Hughton this unless the style of play changes very soon.

But even if the worse comes to the worst we will be a comparatively wealthy and Champioship side, with a squad that would be very capable of bouncing back.

I think that would attract a lot of interest from some good, ambitious and up-and-coming people.

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I think that if the worst happens and we are relegated, the board would ask Hughton how he feels about staying on.   It will be up to him as on the face of it, he would be a good candidate to bring us back up again.  But it would be depend on whether he would be up to the challenge and be prepared to put up with the hostility of some of the crowd, because if we are relegated and he stays on, there will be some hostility towards him and perhaps more at the board too.    It is always a roller coaster at Norwich, but if he stayed on in that scenario and was successful in bringing us back up, he would turn from zero to hero to all of us (apart from those who are never happy).  

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[quote user="lake district canary"]... It is always a roller coaster at Norwich, but if he stayed on in that scenario and was successful in bringing us back up, he would turn from zero to hero to all of us (apart from those who are never happy).[/quote]That''s not fair LDC.I think many of us would quite rightly be unhappy with the guy if he got us relegated, mainly because I certainly do NOT think we''re one of the three worst squads in the league, so falling behind one of them to get relegated would be a bad indictment on how the manager has performed.With this in mind, I''m certainly wouldn''t be giving huge accolades to a guy who failed to keep us up with arguably our best ever side, just because he managed to bring us back up after his own miserable failure...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]... It is always a roller coaster at Norwich, but if he stayed on in that scenario and was successful in bringing us back up, he would turn from zero to hero to all of us (apart from those who are never happy).[/quote]
That''s not fair LDC.

I think many of us would quite rightly be unhappy with the guy if he got us relegated, mainly because I certainly do NOT think we''re one of the three worst squads in the league, so falling behind one of them to get relegated would be a bad indictment on how the manager has performed.

With this in mind, I''m certainly wouldn''t be giving huge accolades to a guy who failed to keep us up with arguably our best ever side, just because he managed to bring us back up after his own miserable failure...
[/quote]

 

Plus half the side here now would have vanished,

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