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lake district canary

Relegation battle or mid-table battle or both?

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Lets face it folks, the league doesn''t lie.  This year the league is very tight from tenth downwards.  So every club from tenth downwards is in the battle.  But is it a battle to stave off relegation, or a battle to win the battle for tenth place.  You could say that from the moment the season started we were in a relegation battle.  Or you could have said we are in a battle for mid-table.  Or you could just say we''re in the league and anything is possible.

Phrases and words are emotive.  "Relegation battle" sounds much more dramatic to the media and to the drama queens.  "Battle for mid-table" sounds much less dramatic.   But every nuance to a club like ours from the media is bound to be one of Norwich being down among the also rans.  We''ve proved two seasons in a row that that isn''t the case and there is no reason to suppose we can''t get that mid-table position again.  

Its easy to get sucked in to a doom laden scenario, but its true - we are in a battle for mid-table as well as a battle for staying in the league.  So what is it?  Is it a relegation battle?  A battle for mid-table?  Or is it just a battle?  

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I guess we won''t know, but that fear won''t go away until we are mathematically safe. The reality is (looking at the table and the odds) we are about the 5th/6th most likely team to go down. That''s 1 or 2 better than we started the season as at least! A lot will come down to the mental strength of the bottom 11 teams and a bit of luck. If we can grab a couple of wins in the next 3 or 4 games, well be looking good, more than likely though, we''ll trundle along with the odd win and end the season either just above the bottom 3 or just inside.

We have a number of vital players due back by february and we could do with a little bit of help in the transfer window.

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It''s simply life for a smaller club in one of the hardest leagues in the world. It''s not much fun to be honest.

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Was peed off with Sky Sports News earlier. Talking about Cardiff''s next run of fixtures they mention their fixture against ''relegation rivals Norwich'' followed by a match against Swansea. So Swansea who are a whole 1 point ahead are not considered relegation rivals but we are. Bloody media!

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To be fair JF many posters on this board don''t see them as relegation rivals. We should aspire to be like them. I wonder if we closed that 1 point gap they''d be happy...

 

 

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At the moment it''s a massive battle against relegation. Take a look at some of the fixtures remaining from some of the teams and you can argue that there is still some teams in unrealistic positions.

Hull have to play every team above them at home except Man U who they play away and liverpool who they''ve played twice. They also have to go to every team in the bottom six.

Sunderland have to travel to 7 of the top 8 (they have Everton at home) but have visits from 6 of the 8 teams above them. As it happens I expect Sunderland repeat what QPR did last season only to be a bit closer to safety.

Other teams have a less surprising position Crystal Palace have got all of their points from 7 games with 9 of their 17 points coming from the home wins against Cardiff, WHU and Sunderland.

Whereas we still have a mix of games home and away, top and bottom. Our problem will be the run-in.

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[quote user="JF"]Was peed off with Sky Sports News earlier. Talking about Cardiff''s next run of fixtures they mention their fixture against ''relegation rivals Norwich'' followed by a match against Swansea. So Swansea who are a whole 1 point ahead are not considered relegation rivals but we are. Bloody media![/quote]

Kind of illustrates the point I was making in the op.   What I sometimes think happens is that us fans get sucked into the way media thinks - after all we are saturated with pundits and commentators on football as in everything else -  and before we know it we are talking ourselves down, without really knowing why.

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I don''t get how some of Norwich''s fans seem to cling to predictions of doom so fervently. The level of certainty they seem to have that life under Hughton is guaranteed to end in relegation is bordering on religious. Having the best chunk of our midfield out of action is a mere excuse and their return can''t possibly have any positive effect. Bizarre outlook.

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[quote user="JF"]Was peed off with Sky Sports News earlier. Talking about Cardiff''s next run of fixtures they mention their fixture against ''relegation rivals Norwich'' followed by a match against Swansea. So Swansea who are a whole 1 point ahead are not considered relegation rivals but we are. Bloody media![/quote]

Swansea will not be ''relegation rivals'' until they are a lot closer to the bottom of the table than they are now. The other thing to remember is that Swansea/Cardiff is the other kind of rivalry that the media like to harp on about and it doesn''t matter whether they are relegation rivals or not at the moment.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]Well I reckon if my aunt had b@lls she would be my uncle or maybe my b0ll0cky aunt. Depends which way you see it.[/quote]Well which way do you see it?   Or is it as I was suggesting.....err...androgynous??

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Well I reckon if my aunt had b@lls she would be my uncle or maybe my b0ll0cky aunt. Depends which way you see it.[/quote]

Well which way do you see it?   Or is it as I was suggesting.....err...androgynous??


[/quote]

I deal with reality Lakey not the fantasy that you see those your green and yellow tinted specs.We are in a scrap and unfortunately no spin you put on it will sway me from that view.Tedious.boring,inconsistent football with zilch entertainment in far too many games. I nearly missed the last home game through a dose of man flu which would have been the first home game I had missed since the Chase Out protests and do you know what I was not overly concerned. The thought of missing a home game used to be unthinkable and I would have staggered down to Carrow Road on crutches with a couple of broken legs in fact ''er indoors gets annoyed because I book holidays based around the fixture list but there is only one man who is making me lose that desire. Sad but true.

For the avoidance of doubt Lakey I would never have Lambert back in a million years.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]Well I reckon if my aunt had b@lls she would be my uncle or maybe my b0ll0cky aunt. Depends which way you see it.[/quote]there''s parts of suffolk where it is not an ''if''

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Well I reckon if my aunt had b@lls she would be my uncle or maybe my b0ll0cky aunt. Depends which way you see it.[/quote]Well which way do you see it?   Or is it as I was suggesting.....err...androgynous??[/quote]

I deal with reality Lakey not the fantasy that you see those your green and yellow tinted specs.We are in a scrap and unfortunately no spin you put on it will sway me from that view.Tedious.boring,inconsistent football with zilch entertainment in far too many games. I nearly missed the last home game through a dose of man flu which would have been the first home game I had missed since the Chase Out protests and do you know what I was not overly concerned. The thought of missing a home game used to be unthinkable and I would have staggered down to Carrow Road on crutches with a couple of broken legs in fact ''er indoors gets annoyed because I book holidays based around the fixture list but there is only one man who is making me lose that desire. Sad but true.

For the avoidance of doubt Lakey I would never have Lambert back in a million years.

[/quote]

It just goes to show how people have different realities but despite your protests - I do not have yellow and green tinted specs - and this thread is about whether we look down the table or up, or whether we just accept the battle for what it is - a hard fought, pressurised cauldron where free flowing football is hard to come by.  We are not the only ones struggling to play attractive attacking football.   The pressure is great, the injuries are not helping, but above all that we are no worse and no better than fighting a battle in a difficult league - with everything to play for.   The entertainment issue is something else - for that we may have to wait.

But whether we end up in mid table or looking over our shoulders in a few weeks time is up to Hughton and the team.  We have to improve - that we can agree on I''m sure.   

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However you express it here, Lakey, you''re no different than lots of

other folks, you change the way you express it by the day. A day or two

ago in yet another of your incessant optimistic thread generations, you

were expressing it as "we are only 3 points away from a comfortable

mid-table position." Today you''ve recognized it''s not a comfortable

position, so you''re improving I suppose. I just don''t think you''re looking up the table far enough ( on this particular thread anyway. ) I think we should be where Southampton is now.

I said some time ago

that I do not see much difference between our squad and the one at

Southampton. They had a wonderful start to the season but their manager

also had the benefit of being able to field much the same team through

that period compared to some of our injury problems. More recently

Southampton has struggled, gaining only 8 points out of 30 over the past

10 games. However, despite their recent poor return and, having watched

most of their games, I like the way Southampton fights for the ball and

attacks and defend as a team, even during this poor return spell.. Regardless of whether or not they

continue to come back to the pack that we are in, I would be more confident that Norwich can win the games they have the best chances in by playing more like Southampton. Attacking and defending as a unit, particularly in those games where we are less likely to be done in on fast breakaways and clinical finishing.

Of course we all know we need to improve but, lest we forget, even when we had the benefit of availability of some of those players that have been out with injuries, against teams that represented more winnable games, we still looked ponderous going forward, too often much more comfortable turning back and facing our own goal rather than driving forward in numbers. We will see what happens but if we get the injured players returning without changing our style and being more aggressive as a team unit when opportune then, in my view, we will continue to be peering down the table rather than the other way around.

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Nothing to do with league position, everything to do with points. It just so happens that in recent years there haven''t been many points between 10th and 18th.

It can also change of course, but I think unless you''re 10 or more points clear at this point of the season, you can consider yourself in a relegation battle. So this season, I think Southampton will feel comfortable. Everyone else will be worried.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

But whether we end up in mid table or looking over our shoulders in a few weeks time is up to Hughton and the team.   


[/quote]

So you do not see the need to be looking over our shoulders then ? Unbelievable just unbelievable but then again Percy Positives such as yourself are content to bury your heads in the sand.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]But whether we end up in mid table or looking over our shoulders in a few weeks time is up to Hughton and the team.    [/quote]So you do not see the need to be looking over our shoulders then ? Unbelievable just unbelievable but then again Percy Positives such as yourself are content to bury your heads in the sand. [/quote]

I sometimes think you and I don''t speak the same language.  My point is that it could go either way.  The preponderence on here for looking down is endemic, yet it is just as likely that we can go up the table as we could go down the table.    It seems that you have such a downer on the football at the moment  that you can only see bad things.   Bad football, bad results, bad draw at Palace, what next?  A bad win somewhere? - oh no, we had one of those against West Ham...............

I''ll say it in plain English.   We should be aware that it is just as likely that we can go up the table as go down the table.   That is just stating the obvious I know, but to spend the whole season mithering about possible relegation and the poor standard of football on show is just looking on the bleak side, without seeing any up side to it.   We could get sucked in to a dogfight, we could win a couple of games and move up to tenth place.  We could get our injured players back and make improvements in team play.  

I can understand your frustration at not seeing the kind of football you want to see, but as many have said on here, that is the nature of the premiership these days.  The lower half of the table stuck in a tense battle to stay in it.   I think we will improve the way we play as time goes on, injured players return, etc etc.  I know you don''t think that - but the next few weeks are going to be fascinating because we have to improve.  I think we will.  

What''s the alternative? Give up and say Hughton isn''t capable, the team can''t play and the board are rubbish because they won''t act?   Run it all down, think everything is bad?     Where is the joy in that?   I can''t castigate you for having a downer on the club, but I don''t think you should be so derisory at me for having a slightly more positive outlook. 

The reality is that we are in the mix.  No need for doom and gloom or any satisfaction of being close to mid table.  We are simply where we are.  That is not "positive" - it is saying it as it is.   But its an exciting time to be a Norwich supporter.   The struggle is on to improve and if a few more people could just try and enjoy the process instead of trying to inflict their expectations on the situation, then there might be a more positive feel to the place.  

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[quote user="lake district canary"]  But its an exciting time to be a Norwich supporter.  


[/quote]

You really do need to seek medical help. Pure tosh of the highest order. Since 1963 I have seen the good the bad and the ugly concerning the fortunes of my football club and if you think that we are in a period of exciting times I really feel sorry for you Mr.Deluted Lakey. [:''(]

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="lake district canary"]  But its an exciting time to be a Norwich supporter.[/quote]You really do need to seek medical help. Pure tosh of the highest order. Since 1963 I have seen the good the bad and the ugly concerning the fortunes of my football club and if you think that we are in a period of exciting times I really feel sorry for you Mr.Deluted Lakey. [:''(][/quote]

You delight in taking sentences out of context, but the upshot of our present position is that we could be in a relegation battle or we could improve and finish respectably in mid table.   If you can''t find some enthusiasm or excitement in the prospect for a roller coaster ride over the next couple of months, then I suggest its you that needs the help.

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That was a complete sentence I quoted from your previous post so how was that taken out of context ? I really think Lakey that you need to make your mind up where we are heading because one minute you are confident things will improve and in another post we are in for a roller coaster ride.

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Poorer performances and far fewer points than last season = serious relegation scrap. Also lets not forget up to 2 games from the end of last season we were still concerned about relegation

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]but then again Percy Positives such as yourself.....[/quote]You used to be a Nancy Negative then you mellowed and became a Percy and now it seems you''re a Nancy again Tilly. More flip-flops than Wiz. I should have seen the signs a few weeks ago when you took me to that pub where that bird with a beard asked me for a fag. [:)]

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]That was a complete sentence I quoted from your previous post so how was that taken out of context ? I really think Lakey that you need to make your mind up where we are heading because one minute you are confident things will improve and in another post we are in for a roller coaster ride.[/quote]

Sentences can be taken out of context, just as much as parts of sentences.  Just for clarification,  I am confident we will improve as I have some faith in Hughton and his team, but am realistic enough to know that the opposite could happen too, hence the element of uncertainty - and consequent excitement there will be as the season progresses.  

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="TIL 1010"]but then again Percy Positives such as yourself.....[/quote]You used to be a Nancy Negative then you mellowed and became a Percy and now it seems you''re a Nancy again Tilly. More flip-flops than Wiz. I should have seen the signs a few weeks ago when you took me to that pub where that bird with a beard asked me for a fag. [:)][/quote]

....and did you open the package Lapp? [:D]

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="TIL 1010"]but then again Percy Positives such as yourself.....[/quote]You used to be a Nancy Negative then you mellowed and became a Percy and now it seems you''re a Nancy again Tilly. More flip-flops than Wiz. I should have seen the signs a few weeks ago when you took me to that pub where that bird with a beard asked me for a fag. [:)][/quote]

....and did you open the package Lapp? [:D][/quote]Nooo! I flipped and flapped my way out of there. [:$]

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="TIL 1010"]but then again Percy Positives such as yourself.....[/quote]

You used to be a Nancy Negative then you mellowed and became a Percy and now it seems you''re a Nancy again Tilly. More flip-flops than Wiz.

I should have seen the signs a few weeks ago when you took me to that pub where that bird with a beard asked me for a fag. [:)]
[/quote]


....and did you open the package Lapp? [:D]
[/quote]

Lapp was in a flap that night Yankee.

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