Whatever happened to our wonderful family club ?

[morty 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]morty wrote the following post at 2014-01-03 3:13 PM:

City 2nd, you do understand that football has changed massively in the years since the Premiership began, don''t you?

We will, never again see a club of our size emulate our acievements of the early Premiership years, its just not going to happen. And the success during the Lambert years are unlikely to be repeated.

You''re going to have to lower your expectations, or invent a time machine.

Morty, I was hoping that would come across, but it obviously didn''t hence your post. I don''t have any expectations at all now, what I was alluding to was my inherent dream. If you were about in 58/59 you would feel the same - every city supporter gave city no chance, every round, of that cup run, but they all dreamt it, and it became reality until the heartbreaking semi replay v Luton. Of course we must never say never, but we can, and should, always hold that dream. And every so often it happens, like Coventry, Ipswich, Sunderland and Wimbledon winning the FA Cup.

Of course I understand the game has changed, I''ve witnessed it first hand, that is what my rumblings are about but you never know what''s around the corner my friend. OTBC.[/quote]

I agree that its a shame that we have no expectations, I wish it were different too.

Yeah, a decent cup run would really raise spirits just now!

[Orford65 0]

You contradict yourself somewhat City 2nd as per your previous comment:  ''Sorry Ricardo, whilst I fully appreciate your selection, for me Roeder

and Hughton are far worse based on the clubs status and modern day game.

In contact with me the CEO suggested it was wrong to compare

managers who competed in different leagues!, so I don''t doubt he would

suggest the same to you.

Roeder never managed us in the top flight, while Hoots has never been in charge other than the P/L.In terms of performance, results, goals scored etc. Saunders, Deehan, Megson and Worthy have a much poorer record at this level.As for having the most money to spend of any manager in our history, that, surely, is all relevant to what every other club has available to them and nobody apart from the top teams in the old days had access to the riches on offer now.

[KeelansGlove 0]

I really don''t understand why this "Little Norwich" thing is still hanging around.

I don''t buy that football has changed massively.

Yes there are 6 teams that we will be unlikely to live with either on or off the pitch, probably pretty much the same ones as 30 years ago.

Other than that a debt free Norwich City should be able to compete on and off the pitch with most of the rest.

The only expectation I have is that if I pay money to watch a football match I have the belief that there is a possibility we might win it.

To see some convincing displays where we put the opposition in there place and they are glad to get off the pitch after 90 minutes.

I can take the rough with the smooth, but the rough with the rough is hard to be inspired by. The only team that I have seen this season that would give us a run for our money is West Ham.

The sad fact is I really don''t know why, its easy to blame the manager and if you think (as I do) that the playing squad is as good as we have ever had its difficult to point the finger elsewhere.

I think maybe its the fact there is no tempo to our play, If you have the skills of Arsenal, Chelsea or Man City maybe you can walk the ball into the net with the opposition wondering what happened but we don''t have (and will never have) that quality of player.

We cannot defend for 90 minutes and expect to keep a clean sheet, to do that we have to keep the ball at the other end of the pitch.

We have only scored 3 more than the worst attacking team so far this season and we have conceded the joint second highest amount but everything is going according to plan.

[City 2nd 191]

Orford65 wrote the following post at 2014-01-03 3:34 PM:

You contradict yourself somewhat City 2nd as per your previous comment:

''Sorry Ricardo, whilst I fully appreciate your selection, for me Roeder and Hughton are far worse based on the clubs status and modern day game.

In contact with me the CEO suggested it was wrong to compare managers who competed in different leagues!, so I don''t doubt he would suggest the same to you.

Roeder never managed us in the top flight, while Hoots has never been in charge other than the P/L.

In terms of performance, results, goals scored etc. Saunders, Deehan, Megson and Worthy have a much poorer record at this level.

As for having the most money to spend of any manager in our history, that, surely, is all relevant to what every other club has available to them and nobody apart from the top teams in the old days had access to the riches on offer now.

Not white sure what you are alluding to there Orford. In response to Crabby my reply suggests that IMO Roeder and Hughton are the worst managers during my time. The same two I suggested to Ricardo! I appreciate Roeder did not manage us in the top flight, and neither did others I mention, but football is football, and CAN be played in the same manner in whatever league you play in! Mr response to Ricardo, Crabby and Morty are based on my own life, and are not made to provoke argument.

[morty 0]

I think you should stop watching football if Norwich city make you this miserable glovey.

[ron obvious 1,501]

City 2nd wrote the following post at 03/01/2014 11:43 AM:

.............IMO Roeder and Hughton are the worst managers during my time .................

-----------------------

Christ on a bike!!! What are you on?? Grant? Gunn? Was Worthington really any better?

Out of the last 6 managers, only Lambert was significantly better, one debatable, 4 far worse.

Actually, I know what you''re on. A wind-up. Well done.

[City 2nd 191]

ron obvious wrote the following post at 2014-01-03 4:10 PM:

City 2nd wrote the following post at 03/01/2014 11:43 AM:

.............IMO Roeder and Hughton are the worst managers during my time .................

-----------------------

Christ on a bike!!! What are you on?? Grant? Gunn? Was Worthington really any better?

Out of the last 6 managers, only Lambert was significantly better, one debatable, 4 far worse.

Actually, I know what you''re on. A wind-up. Well done.

READ THE POST MORON.

It categorically states IMO - so why make a derogatory remark. You haven''t even got the balls to make comment in a reasonable manner as to your own thoughts. But then you are probably mummy''s boy who''s been watching city a lot less years than myself. And no it isn''t a wind up, pr1ck.

[TCCANARY 263]

I never understood what Hamilton was trying to achieve and I sure most of the players he put on the pitch didn''t.

[Mello Yello 2,281]

I always felt if Rioch was given a bit o'' decent Wonga......He''d have achieved a lot more during his tenure......

[ricardo 7,348]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]I really don''t understand why this "Little Norwich" thing is still hanging around.

I don''t buy that football has changed massively.

Yes there are 6 teams that we will be unlikely to live with either on or off the pitch, probably pretty much the same ones as 30 years ago.

Other than that a debt free Norwich City should be able to compete on and off the pitch with most of the rest.

The only expectation I have is that if I pay money to watch a football match I have the belief that there is a possibility we might win it.

To see some convincing displays where we put the opposition in there place and they are glad to get off the pitch after 90 minutes.

I can take the rough with the smooth, but the rough with the rough is hard to be inspired by. The only team that I have seen this season that would give us a run for our money is West Ham.

The sad fact is I really don''t know why, its easy to blame the manager and if you think (as I do) that the playing squad is as good as we have ever had its difficult to point the finger elsewhere.

I think maybe its the fact there is no tempo to our play, If you have the skills of Arsenal, Chelsea or Man City maybe you can walk the ball into the net with the opposition wondering what happened but we don''t have (and will never have) that quality of player.

We cannot defend for 90 minutes and expect to keep a clean sheet, to do that we have to keep the ball at the other end of the pitch.

We have only scored 3 more than the worst attacking team so far this season and we have conceded the joint second highest amount but everything is going according to plan.[/quote]You are correct that football hasn''t changed massively in that respect . What you fail to see is that it hasn''t change with due regard to the fact that the bottom half of the Prem and the top half of the Chumps is in continual recycle. Clubs of our stature move up and down and NCFC are merely one of many in this mix. Resorting to the "Little Norwich" epithet is just ignoring the reality that everybody is little in comparison with the big seven. You say you can take the rough with the smooth but that is apparently not the case now that the smooth has changed to rough. There will be good periods just as there will be bad ones. You cannot call them up at your demand you just have to enjoy the smooth and get through the rough as best you can in the certain knowledge that the tide will turn. Until a billionaire comes along and cements us permanently in the Premier League, this will always be the case. Hard to accept for some but looking at our history and that of our peers it is the only answer that fits the facts. I don''t like it any more than you KG, but wishing it were different won''t make it so.

[ron obvious 1,501]

READ THE POST MORON.

It categorically states IMO - so why make a derogatory remark. You haven''t even got the balls to make comment in a reasonable manner as to your own thoughts. But then you are probably mummy''s boy who''s been watching city a lot less years than myself. And no it isn''t a wind up, pr1ck.

Ok, IMO YO is that of a lunatic.

t

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[nutty nigel 7,512]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]I really don''t understand why this "Little

Norwich" thing is still hanging around. I don''t buy that football has changed

massively. Yes there are 6 teams that we will be unlikely to live with either on

or off the pitch, probably pretty much the same ones as 30 years ago.

[/quote]

 

 

Glovey, you are either so consumed by your own misery that your memory has

failed you or else you are just making stuff up for the sake of it. 30 years ago

we had the likes of the us, Forest, Wolves, WBA, Southampton, West Ham, Swansea,

Watford yes even the binners finishing in the top 6. Today you can virtually

name the six before the season starts.

 

 

And you say other posters must be sniffing glue....

 

 

[KeelansGlove 0]

The problem for me Ricardo is that I really do find it difficult to find many performances in the Hughton era that I feel worthy of smooth but far to many that qualify as rough.

Even when we win we look far from convincing.

I cannot fault the players I was happy with our signings and think we have a great squad (just missing no10)

I cannot even keep harping on about playing 4-5-1 without a number 10 as Hughton has mixed it up playing 4-4-2 and only one winger (as I had been calling for) with some success.

But we still look anything but convincing in almost all games. When we win in blood and thunder last ditch tackles and edge of the seat.

When we lose or draw its pedestrian plodding and predictable.

The only 2 things I can say that are missing are tempo and belief, is it the managers fault ? I have no idea.

[KeelansGlove 0]

You are totally wide of the mark Nutty, I have no desire to see us life the premier league trophy or even take part in some secondary European competition. I am happy to measure success in much smaller ways.

Not being relegated fine that''s a success.

Performing to the best of our abilities another.

I can take some positives from the Utd game even though it was probably the poorest team they had sent to Carrow rd in my lifetime.

Looking good and winning a game comfortably.

That''s what we quite simply cannot do, we always seem to make the opposition look like world beaters. Maybe we sit too deep and invite the pressure if we somehow manage to get in front but whatever it is it is the worst thing about Norwich under Hughton,

Scraping a win is the best we can hope for. against the top teams of course we cannot expect more but against teams around us we surely can.

[nutty nigel 7,512]

So what''s all that got to do with the tripe my post was replying to about the league 30 years ago[:^)]

 

 

[KeelansGlove 0]

Sorry maybe I missed your point, I thought were suggesting it was easier for a club of our size to compete back in the day, and that I was expecting us to be competing in the top half of the league (which I don''t)

I would suggest we are in a much stronger position financially within the football pyramid than we were 30 years ago.

We just cannot seem to play exciting attacking football against anyone. our goals for and against tally does not lie.

I am sorry I cannot dress up our performances this season to be some sort of success, I accept we have managed to be 3 points outside the relegation zone is better than being in it but when we perform as we have recently against Sunderland , Fulham and Palace you do have to wonder who can we actually beat in this league.

I really couldn''t care less what a bunch of performing seals think of my opinion and there is little that would make me happier than tomorrows game being a catalyst for better times.

I have however been watching football at Carrow road for around 40 years and whilst part of me would dearly love to save my money rather than turn up and be disappointed on such a regular basis anyone that would suggest that clearly has no idea what being a supporter actually is.

It is not accepting every poor performance and trying to dress I up as something its not. it is being there through thick or thin (and there have been some very thin times)

If thinking we should be able to go toe to toe with other teams in the bottom half of the league we are in and win a few games a season comfortably is expecting to much then I am guilty as charged.

[ricardo 7,348]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]The problem for me Ricardo is that I really do find it difficult to find many performances in the Hughton era that I feel worthy of smooth but far to many that qualify as rough.

Even when we win we look far from convincing.

I cannot fault the players I was happy with our signings and think we have a great squad (just missing no10)

I cannot even keep harping on about playing 4-5-1 without a number 10 as Hughton has mixed it up playing 4-4-2 and only one winger (as I had been calling for) with some success.

But we still look anything but convincing in almost all games. When we win in blood and thunder last ditch tackles and edge of the seat.

When we lose or draw its pedestrian plodding and predictable.

The only 2 things I can say that are missing are tempo and belief, is it the managers fault ? I have no idea.[/quote]I agree with much of that KG. This is exactly what I expected after the Lambert years. I''ve said before that the kind of sustained success of those 3 years was an aberration in the fortunes of our club. In 61 seasons I''ve never seen anything like it ( I''m sure Nigel would agree). It couldn''t last and it didn''t last and it is inevitable that things return to a more humdrum level.I honestly don''t know if changing the manager will make any difference. In the Premier League I suspect it won''t. People go on and on about Gunn and Lambert years, what they fail to take into account is that NCFC were a very big fish in a very small pond in League 1 and although indebted it still had deeper pockets than the likes of Wycombe Wdrs, Exeter etc etc. Promotion was inevitable with any half competent manager, certainly within a few years if not in one. Clubs of our stature don''t linger long in the basement. The second promotion built on the momentum of the first as well as Lambert''s astute management. Did you in all honesty really believe that this sort of progress would continue when we got in bed with the big boy''s?I think we have acquitted ourselves quite well in the top flight and both managers have done a good job. We are debt free and have a new beginning but none of this yet moves us out of the great recycling. There are good games against the big boys because they let you play knowing they can usually beat you. Games with our peers will always be tight with the fear of chucking it all away. I know it''s not pretty and over a long life I''ve seen more bad than good at CR. Expecting it to be different would be a triumph of hope over experience. I know it''s not what you want to hear but the long and short of it is that things are as they are until they change and we will never know in advance whether its for the good or bad.

[KeelansGlove 0]

I agree Ricardo that maybe we have been spoilt of late but I thing some people get the impression I want the moon on a stick, surely its not too much to expect a couple of games a season where everything goes right ?

Where we look like we deserve the points ?

[ricardo 7,348]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]I agree Ricardo that maybe we have been spoilt of late but I thing some people get the impression I want the moon on a stick, surely its not too much to expect a couple of games a season where everything goes right ?

Where we look like we deserve the points ?[/quote]KG, i feel your pain. You have obviously come to a crises point in your support for NCFC. It happens to us all at sometime or another and I know many good men who jacked it in at a low point never to return. God Almighty I lost count of the years when the most exciting displays I saw was a flock of starlings whirling of the railway yard. behind the Barclay. Once it''s out of your blood it''s gone for good. I am determined to help you through this crisis, you must not give in to the darkside and be seduced by the miserarblists like Highland Canary.I often think of him lying in his bed with photo''s of all City relegation teams above the headboard. On the side wall is a montage of City''s worst managers, a little clay Hughton doll with a needle through it resides on the bedside table. On the far wall a full size poster of Billy Bingham''s heart breaking goal that ended our ''59 Cup dream, all just to make sure he wakes up in the right mode.Christ! I would have slit my wrists the moment we signed Dean Coney if I had ever felt like that.The in more charitable moments I realise that he didn''t see what I saw. My formative supporting years saw a 26 game run without a win, stone last in the old Third South, bankrupcy and a re-application to be admitted back into the League.With an apprenticeship like that even the signing of Dean Coney (the centre forward who couldn''t hit a cow''s ar$e with a banjo) looked like a positive step forward.Don''t be lost to the dark side old son, many were and they missed the Lambert years because of it, the best years of all. You never know what''s round the corner, live in hope old pal, live in hope.[:D]

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ricardo"]you must not give in to the darkside and be seduced by the miserarblists like Highland Canary.I often think of him lying in his bed with photo''s of all City relegation teams above the headboard.[/quote]Brilliant post Ricky and the bit I''ve posted is an absolute classic. [:D] [:D] [:D]

[ricardo 7,348]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="ricardo"]you must not give in to the darkside and be seduced by the miserarblists like Highland Canary.I often think of him lying in his bed with photo''s of all City relegation teams above the headboard.[/quote]Brilliant post Ricky and the bit I''ve posted is an absolute classic. [:D] [:D] [:D][/quote]That''s how I picture him Lapps.KG needs our support, he must not be lost to the dark side.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Thanks for your support Ricardo regardless of the advise from elsewhere im in it for life, for better or worse.

I want whats best for Norwich City I do find it frustrating that the team do not appear to be able to give us some positivity to hang our hats on, I do find it more than a little frustrating that some seem to be positive to the degree of being over the moon if we can keep playing just like this for the next 10 years.

I still hope that something will change maybe we will sign a midfielder who can bring it all together but our goals for and against stats cannot be ignored.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Ricardo, I''m pleased to see you sympathetic to the feelings expressed by KG. As you may know, I went to Carrow Road in the dark days ( even

before you did ). So I know all too well where we came from and where we

are. today. While my life journey did not allow me to be an attending

supporter like you , KG and many others, I do not base my expectations

of what the club can achieve based upon on "want". That''s a foolish

pursuit in football because one is forever going to be disappointed. No,

if I have an expectation it is based upon the players that the club

have been able to put in place, what they have demonstrated they are

capable of in terms of performance, skill and effort.

I watch

a lot of football games A lot. I''m aware of the strengths and

weaknesses of many of the teams we are competing with as well as the

strengths and weaknesses of a multitude of players. I''m sure you also

watch many other teams, along with other keen fans. In my case I am

convinced we already have a squad of players who are capable of better

performances as a team than what has been demonstrated on far too many

occasions to date. We know we don''t always get results based upon

performances but, obviously, over the long term there is a correlation.

I suspect we  understand very well that the frustration expressed by KG is

merely an example of what many feel not based upon "want" but based upon

the feeling or belief that our current squad is capable of more than

what they are showing on more than a few occasions.

[ricardo 7,348]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]Ricardo, I''m pleased to see you sympathetic to the feelings expressed by KG. As you may know, I went to Carrow Road in the dark days ( even

before you did ). So I know all too well where we came from and where we

are. today. While my life journey did not allow me to be an attending

supporter like you , KG and many others, I do not base my expectations

of what the club can achieve based upon on "want". That''s a foolish

pursuit in football because one is forever going to be disappointed. No,

if I have an expectation it is based upon the players that the club

have been able to put in place, what they have demonstrated they are

capable of in terms of performance, skill and effort.

I watch

a lot of football games A lot. I''m aware of the strengths and

weaknesses of many of the teams we are competing with as well as the

strengths and weaknesses of a multitude of players. I''m sure you also

watch many other teams, along with other keen fans. In my case I am

convinced we already have a squad of players who are capable of better

performances as a team than what has been demonstrated on far too many

occasions to date. We know we don''t always get results based upon

performances but, obviously, over the long term there is a correlation.

I suspect we  understand very well that the frustration expressed by KG is

merely an example of what many feel not based upon "want" but based upon

the feeling or belief that our current squad is capable of more than

what they are showing on more than a few occasions.[/quote]We are from the same generation Yankee, we bear the same scars and have the same hopes, although ours are tinged with a touch of reality that only experience can bring. Whether Hughton can realise our dreams or not ,will only be revealed with time. If he can''t then someone at some time will. We waited a longtime for a Lambert to come along and if we have to wait a similar time for the next one then neither you nor I will be here to see him.I''ve learned to live in hope rather than anger or regret. I gives me a certain peace. I''m sure you know what I mean.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]Ricardo, I''m pleased to see you sympathetic to the feelings expressed by KG. As you may know, I went to Carrow Road in the dark days ( even

before you did ). So I know all too well where we came from and where we

are. today. While my life journey did not allow me to be an attending

supporter like you , KG and many others, I do not base my expectations

of what the club can achieve based upon on "want". That''s a foolish

pursuit in football because one is forever going to be disappointed. No,

if I have an expectation it is based upon the players that the club

have been able to put in place, what they have demonstrated they are

capable of in terms of performance, skill and effort.

I watch

a lot of football games A lot. I''m aware of the strengths and

weaknesses of many of the teams we are competing with as well as the

strengths and weaknesses of a multitude of players. I''m sure you also

watch many other teams, along with other keen fans. In my case I am

convinced we already have a squad of players who are capable of better

performances as a team than what has been demonstrated on far too many

occasions to date. We know we don''t always get results based upon

performances but, obviously, over the long term there is a correlation.

I suspect we  understand very well that the frustration expressed by KG is

merely an example of what many feel not based upon "want" but based upon

the feeling or belief that our current squad is capable of more than

what they are showing on more than a few occasions.[/quote]We are from the same generation Yankee, we bear the same scars and have the same hopes, although ours are tinged with a touch of reality that only experience can bring. Whether Hughton can realise our dreams or not ,will only be revealed with time. If he can''t then someone at some time will. We waited a longtime for a Lambert to come along and if we have to wait a similar time for the next one then neither you nor I will be here to see him.I''ve learned to live in hope rather than anger or regret. I gives me a certain peace. I''m sure you know what I mean.[/quote]

Indeed I do.