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Samwam27

What would happen if Hooper got injured...

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....I''d just like to know what people''s thoughts are about this, and whether we should try to strengthen up front.Looking at things, I''m worried where the goals will come the second half of the season, especially if Hopper got injured.Becchio - I feel sorry for the guy. He arrived having scored 19 goals in half a season, full of confidence, and hasn''t been given any sort of chance here (nor can one see him getting a chance). Even last year when we were struggling, Hughton still didn''t play him. Danny Ings has been mentioned (ooh having scored 19 goals for Burnley) so is he a different sort of striker to Bech''s, else why bother.RVW-Has a great record, and scored in first game of season-but has added one since in next 9/9 games, and now only returning from lengthy injury. Needs a run, and time to adjust to this league, and prove his credentialsElmander - Hustles, bustles and holds the ball up well, but sorry, he is first and foremost a striker, who''s job is to get goals. He has scored nil premiership goals in 19 games, so when and if will they comeSo where do our other goals come from. Fer has pitched in with 4, then it''s anyone''s game, as it''s quite sparse after that.So do you think we need another striker, either by letting Becchio go, or Elmander, or both, or do you think these four will do us the business, with the likes of Redmond, SNodders, Fer pitching in.What do other think?

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One of the other lads would probably come good, hoping it''s RVW, he''s had time to settle and is now back fighting fit ready to rescue his Norwich career.

Before people say it''s to early to be thinking that, if he flopped this year and we went down, he''d leave for peanuts and lose a lot of rep. He has a lot at stake this second half of the season.

I do think we need a dynamic midfielder signed to help Leroy and co in the middle fashion out good use of the ball.

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Ask Grant Holt why our strikers aren''t scoring any goals this season.

 

It''s all to do with Hughton''s defensive tactics. If we continue to play one guy up front, whomever it is, will struggle to score goals. As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. Until we start playing with two strikers, getting in more strikers to mitigate the risk of a Hooper injury won''t make a huge amount of difference unless we can attract a seriously good striker, and I doubt we can. The other strikers at our disposal, whilst probably doing a worse job than Hooper in the lone striker role, will probably be just about good enough (and I would certainly hope it to be the case in Van Wolfswinkle who cost us £7.5 million or so, and looks half the player Dean Ashton looked who cost half that amount).

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]
As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. [/quote]
Just shows how much of an idiot Owen is then...

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Hooper is scoring though...[/quote]

 

Well I wasn''t being literally when I said our strikers weren''t scoring any goals. Just that they aren''t scoring many goals. Holt returned 8 league goals (or 8 goals in all competitions, I can''t remember exactly) in his last season and he''d probably say he was disappointed with that return, mainly because he harboured international ambitions which were dashed by that season (although under the constraints he was playing i.e. isolated, maybe he might say he did okay). Hooper is probably on course to match that return, or maybe to do marginally better. It''s not exactly a stellar return, but he is clearly our best striker.

 

I do accept that Elmander has failed to do anything in the Premiership this season in terms of goals. Maybe it''s time to terminate his loan spell and look for an alternative player? Van Wolfswinkle might still come good. He certainly must be sweating, because as others have said, he came in with a big reputation, and if he doesn''t deliver, his standing will collapse and his career will nosedive and he''ll be back playing in a minor European league pretty soon. Becchio probably isn''t good enough to play up front on his own in the Premiership and if Hughton insists on playing this style, he might as well be sold and replaced with someone who is.

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Elmander isn''t scoring but he is working hard for the team, creating space and a good pairing with Hooper. Ricky has just come back from injury so needs a little time. Hopefully he will get a full ninety on Saturday.

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So if the problem (& I agree) isn ''t with our strikers, but with the service from midfield, who would you change.Howson''s been decent, as has Fer (although a little inconsistent), so would you change these, or our wingers. Am guessing most would say we could do better than Johnson, and Snodders has been less effective than last season. Redmonds been a bright lightIf we got a better defensive midfielder, that would release Fer to play more forward and creative? Is the combination wrong in midfield, and who''d you change?I personally think RVW will come good, and Hoops has already shown his pedigree, but whilst Elmander works his socks off, no goals (& he''s had his chances) could well be one of the worst returns ever for a City striker?

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[quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Canary Poirot"]
As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. [/quote]
Just shows how much of an idiot Owen is then...

[/quote]

 

So why exactly is Owen, a player who played at the highest levels in the Premiership and La Liga and one of the highest scoring England internationals ever, an idiot who doesn''t know what he''s talking about when describing strikers, but you, who must have a similar level of experience to bring to the table to reach this conclusion, not an idiot?

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But Chelsea have Torres, Etoo & Ba, and have one of the best midfields in the country (even when not playing Mata), and their strikers have been pants for several seasons now (cannot understand why he let Lukaka go, and keep Ba)One striker on their own, with a great midfield doesn''t always work (but to be fair to Chelsea it works in reverse-most of their goals come from midfield!)

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]

Ask Grant Holt why our strikers aren''t scoring any goals this season.

 

It''s all to do with Hughton''s defensive tactics. If we continue to play one guy up front, whomever it is, will struggle to score goals. As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. Until we start playing with two strikers, getting in more strikers to mitigate the risk of a Hooper injury won''t make a huge amount of difference unless we can attract a seriously good striker, and I doubt we can. The other strikers at our disposal, whilst probably doing a worse job than Hooper in the lone striker role, will probably be just about good enough (and I would certainly hope it to be the case in Van Wolfswinkle who cost us £7.5 million or so, and looks half the player Dean Ashton looked who cost half that amount).

[/quote]We''ve played 30% of our games in 4-4-2 this season  and got 35% of our goals from them, so it doesn''t seem to have a dramatically favourable effect on our goal-scoring,

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[quote user="Samwam27"]So if the problem (& I agree) isn ''t with our strikers, but with the service from midfield, who would you change.Howson''s been decent, as has Fer (although a little inconsistent), so would you change these, or our wingers. Am guessing most would say we could do better than Johnson, and Snodders has been less effective than last season. Redmonds been a bright lightIf we got a better defensive midfielder, that would release Fer to play more forward and creative? Is the combination wrong in midfield, and who''d you change?I personally think RVW will come good, and Hoops has already shown his pedigree, but whilst Elmander works his socks off, no goals (& he''s had his chances) could well be one of the worst returns ever for a City striker?[/quote]

 

I actually think we have sufficient personal of good enough quality in the midfield department to create sufficient chances. Granted not all of our midfielders are probably quite Premiership quality, and I think the form of some of those players has dipped this season to an extent where I can see them going back to the Championship next season (hopefully not with us!). For me it''s a question of deploying the right tactics, and being braver with our positional play. Like players pushing forward to get into the box from midfield to offer more support and options. Yes it''ll leave gaps further back, but we have to try to win too. Too often we get forward and the striker is so isolated he is immediately surrounded by defenders and has little or zero chance to be effective unless the ball to him is top drawer. Likewise I''m really not a fan of 4-3-3 with two wide men who also always seem to look isolated most of the time running down blind alleys to nowhere unless they cut inside (which Redmond does pretty effectively). Ultimately I would prefer two up front, but this tactic is not the fashion at the moment, but things will change in time. It always does. Remember wing-backs?

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]

[quote user="Samwam27"]So if the problem (& I agree) isn ''t with our strikers, but with the service from midfield, who would you change.Howson''s been decent, as has Fer (although a little inconsistent), so would you change these, or our wingers. Am guessing most would say we could do better than Johnson, and Snodders has been less effective than last season. Redmonds been a bright lightIf we got a better defensive midfielder, that would release Fer to play more forward and creative? Is the combination wrong in midfield, and who''d you change?I personally think RVW will come good, and Hoops has already shown his pedigree, but whilst Elmander works his socks off, no goals (& he''s had his chances) could well be one of the worst returns ever for a City striker?[/quote]

 

I actually think we have sufficient personal of good enough quality in the midfield department to create sufficient chances. Granted not all of our midfielders are probably quite Premiership quality, and I think the form of some of those players has dipped this season to an extent where I can see them going back to the Championship next season (hopefully not with us!). For me it''s a question of deploying the right tactics, and being braver with our positional play. Like players pushing forward to get into the box from midfield to offer more support and options. Yes it''ll leave gaps further back, but we have to try to win too. Too often we get forward and the striker is so isolated he is immediately surrounded by defenders and has little or zero chance to be effective unless the ball to him is top drawer. Likewise I''m really not a fan of 4-3-3 with two wide men who also always seem to look isolated most of the time running down blind alleys to nowhere unless they cut inside (which Redmond does pretty effectively). Ultimately I would prefer two up front, but this tactic is not the fashion at the moment, but things will change in time. It always does. Remember wing-backs?

[/quote]I think Olsson could cope with the demands of being a wing back, but I''m not so sure about anybody else in the squad. Whittaker?

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"][quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Canary Poirot"]
As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. [/quote]
Just shows how much of an idiot Owen is then...

[/quote]

 

So why exactly is Owen, a player who played at the highest levels in the Premiership and La Liga and one of the highest scoring England internationals ever, an idiot who doesn''t know what he''s talking about when describing strikers, but you, who must have a similar level of experience to bring to the table to reach this conclusion, not an idiot?

[/quote]One can only assume that as Hooper has been scoring goals whilst playing with Elmander (the Heskey to his Owen if you were) that they were being sarcastic when insulting Mr. Owen...otherwise they probably are just an angry idiot with an axe to grind.

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"][quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Canary Poirot"]
As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. [/quote]
Just shows how much of an idiot Owen is then...

[/quote]

 

So why exactly is Owen, a player who played at the highest levels in the Premiership and La Liga and one of the highest scoring England internationals ever, an idiot who doesn''t know what he''s talking about when describing strikers, but you, who must have a similar level of experience to bring to the table to reach this conclusion, not an idiot?

[/quote]
Because anyone who honestly thinks 2 strikers= more chances= more goals is an idiot. Some of the highest scoring sides in recent memory have all played with 1 up front. They didn''t have a problem scoring or creating due to their lack of a 2nd striker.

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[quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="Canary Poirot"][quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Canary Poirot"]
As Michael Owen said last week - even if you have a world class striker up top who can play effectively on their own, if you put a partner with them, then immediately more chances and goals will be scored. [/quote]
Just shows how much of an idiot Owen is then...

[/quote]

 

So why exactly is Owen, a player who played at the highest levels in the Premiership and La Liga and one of the highest scoring England internationals ever, an idiot who doesn''t know what he''s talking about when describing strikers, but you, who must have a similar level of experience to bring to the table to reach this conclusion, not an idiot?

[/quote]One can only assume that as Hooper has been scoring goals whilst playing with Elmander (the Heskey to his Owen if you were) that they were being sarcastic when insulting Mr. Owen...otherwise they probably are just an angry idiot with an axe to grind.[/quote]
Nope. Michael Owen was a fantastic (if limited) striker. I respected him for his playing career and playing skills but he either knows very little about tactics and formations or is not particularly eloquent if he honestly think 2 strikers=more chances=more goals.

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Then RvW would be played up front on his own and probably score the odd goal here and there. If Ricky gets injured then Elmander would be played up front on his own and would probably score the odd goal here and there. If Elmander gets injured then Becchio would be played up front on his own and would probably score the odd goal here and there.RvW has laboured away as the lone striker at the start of his career and - like most foreign players and even admitted by Fer a couple of days ago - probably took a while to get used to the English game. Since then he has been injured and then benched, normally coming on as a lone striker for the last ten minutes of a game.Elmander has predominantly played in ''the hole''. Becciwho predominantly hasn''t played.Interestingly on Football365 there was a stat about Snoddy creating 36 ''chances'' (whatever they are) without a single assist this season. Does this mean our strikers are awful? Or does this mean that they''re not getting in the box or being swamped by the opposition defence and the opportunity to take this ''chance'' is really bloody hard?A previous poster said that the teams that score the most goals normally play with one up front. I don''t know if they''re referring to one specific team but normally if a brilliant team is scoring loads playing with only one out-and-out striker supported by wingers, these wingers will normally be of the standard of Robben, Pires, Henry, van Persie, Silva, Ben Arfa etc and it''s almost more akin to a 4-3-3.

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I guess I should clarify my position. I''m not saying Norwich shouldn''t play with 2 strikers, nor am I saying that the ''best'' teams play with only one up front. My issue is that Michael Owen (apparently) claimed that 2 strikers=more chances=more goals. My issue with this is that this is completely false. Many high-scoring sides have played with only 1 striker and have had no issue creating chances or scoring from them. If you look at the teams that have scored 30+ goals this season, you''ll find that only Man City and Man Utd. have consistently played with 2 strikers on the pitch, Liverpool have played 2 strikers only about a quarter of the time and Suarez has looked at his most effective up-front by himself. In the face of all this evidence, it''s plainly incorrect that 2 strikers automatically leads to more chances and more goals. Things like quality, tactical gameplan and overall strategic outlook are just as important as the basic formation.

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I wouldn''t replace Snoddy. But as he''s the new scapegoat many would.

Some stats:

Most Chances Created Per Game (Min 20 chances)

Silva 4.1

Ozil 3

Suarez 3

Snodgrass 2.8

Gerrard 2.6

Hazard 2.5

Rooney 2.4

Mata 2.3

Nasri 2.3

He''s doing his job. Many others should do theirs.

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Most of Snoddy''s chances comes from stillballs in a huge crowd where we have quite many tall players who does most of the job in those cases. So if the stats are showing those they are not really telling you anything as where we struggle is creating open game clear cut chances for our strikers.

In current squad I wouldn''t replace him, but in my opinion we should be looking upgrade for him next summer. Someone with similar attributes, but with bit more pace. Not that we should in that case either get rid of Snoddy as he is quality player .

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Oh year and to answer for the OP no I dont think we should strenghten our upfront.

We should strenghten our advanced playmaking abilities and right winger or strenghten our deep playmaking abilities and get modern fullback on right.

In first option we should get new CAM and RW and in second new DM, CB and RB. First for 4-2-3-1 and second for 4-3-3. In second we would mainly use Redmond and Pilkington on the wings or Hooper as false winger.

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