An interesting article re cm's

[can u sit down please 0]

Stumbled across this article.

Gives a really good insight into "today''s" midfield. Something that we have been discussing on the Fox thread bi could''ve added it on that but feel it deserves its own thread.

Enjoy

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/18/question-holding-midfielders-changing-role

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Thanks - really enjoyed reading that. Suggests that in Fox we could have our very own Alonso (if not Pirlo as Bennett suggested) and in Tettey, BJ or Fer our Mascherano. Though of course Fer could also be our Alonso

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

I was going to bring this article up in your Fox debate also CUSDP but the thread had become quite long and rambling I felt it would be ingnored.

 

I find it quite hard to pin down what type of midfielder Howson is, he certainly isn''t a playermaker, ''number 10'' but then he isn''t a regista or destroyer either. I think the term ''carrier'' describes him best as he is excellent at running the ball from deep positions into the final third (something that has been missed hugely while he''s been injured). I also think Fer is a very similar type of player, while he is better in the tackle I think many confuse him as a destroyer, ball winner due to the fact he looks a bit like that kind of player. He is also very good at running with the ball and has a great passing range on him.

 

I don''t think there is any argument that Norwich''s best midfield in Tettey in a deeper holding position with Fer and Howson in front operating a double-pivot midfield. It is a massive shame that Tettey''s injury came so soon after Hughton hit upon this system. That''s probably why I hope another destroyer in midfield is signed this January.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

My mate who supports leeds seems to support the theory of Howson being a carrier type player when I asked him about a year ago. Said he provides energy and creates space. Distributes simple balls out wide for the creative players or drives at the defence.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

I was going to bring this article up in your Fox debate also CUSDP but the thread had become quite long and rambling I felt it would be ingnored.

 

I find it quite hard to pin down what type of midfielder Howson is, he certainly isn''t a playermaker, ''number 10'' but then he isn''t a regista or destroyer either. I think the term ''carrier'' describes him best as he is excellent at running the ball from deep positions into the final third (something that has been missed hugely while he''s been injured). I also think Fer is a very similar type of player, while he is better in the tackle I think many confuse him as a destroyer, ball winner due to the fact he looks a bit like that kind of player. He is also very good at running with the ball and has a great passing range on him.

 

I don''t think there is any argument that Norwich''s best midfield in Tettey in a deeper holding position with Fer and Howson in front operating a double-pivot midfield. It is a massive shame that Tettey''s injury came so soon after Hughton hit upon this system. That''s probably why I hope another destroyer in midfield is signed this January.

[/quote]

 

 

Id have said ''surger'' based on that article

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Fer needs his very own Fernandinho to play next to him. Howson can compete with Elmander and Wes at the tip of the midfield.

We need to utilise Fer''s all round game better. Once Tettey is back he''ll be fine, but as pointed out, Tettey can''t be relied on to play enough games and Johnson despite impressing recently still has a way to go before he wins me over as the answer.

One more all rounder in the middle needed i think.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Fer needs his very own Fernandinho to play next to him. Howson can compete with Elmander and Wes at the tip of the midfield. We need to utilise Fer''s all round game better. Once Tettey is back he''ll be fine, but as pointed out, Tettey can''t be relied on to play enough games and Johnson despite impressing recently still has a way to go before he wins me over as the answer. One more all rounder in the middle needed i think.[/quote]

 

Howson just isn''t that kind of player though. He''s better a little deeper - not hemmed in like a defensive midfielder of course, but allowed to run with the ball at his feet or make late runs into the box His goal against Man City showed what he can do from a deeper position facing goal.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

Hmm while reknowned football author Jonathan Wilson is one of the world''s foremost experts on the evolution and history of tactics, he doesn''t have any coaching badges so I''m afraid we''ll have to disregard his opinion completely.Sorry about that lads but I don''t make the rules up.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Fer needs his very own Fernandinho to play next to him. Howson can compete with Elmander and Wes at the tip of the midfield. We need to utilise Fer''s all round game better. Once Tettey is back he''ll be fine, but as pointed out, Tettey can''t be relied on to play enough games and Johnson despite impressing recently still has a way to go before he wins me over as the answer. One more all rounder in the middle needed i think.[/quote]

 

Howson just isn''t that kind of player though. He''s better a little deeper - not hemmed in like a defensive midfielder of course, but allowed to run with the ball at his feet or make late runs into the box His goal against Man City showed what he can do from a deeper position facing goal.

[/quote]

Yes, but they''d both be competing for the same position in a 4-2-3-1, just they play it differently.

[Just Dan 10]

Very interesting article. I wonder how many more points we would have now if we had not got injuries. Think Tettey was the key one as Hughton seemed to be keen on 4 2 3 1 before he got injured. Also worth a mention here is Elliot Bennett. How did his injury effect what Hughton wanted to do this season?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Fer needs his very own Fernandinho to play next to him. Howson can compete with Elmander and Wes at the tip of the midfield. We need to utilise Fer''s all round game better. Once Tettey is back he''ll be fine, but as pointed out, Tettey can''t be relied on to play enough games and Johnson despite impressing recently still has a way to go before he wins me over as the answer. One more all rounder in the middle needed i think.[/quote]

 

Howson just isn''t that kind of player though. He''s better a little deeper - not hemmed in like a defensive midfielder of course, but allowed to run with the ball at his feet or make late runs into the box His goal against Man City showed what he can do from a deeper position facing goal.

[/quote] Yes, but they''d both be competing for the same position in a 4-2-3-1, just they play it differently.[/quote]

 

Norwich dropped the 4-2-3-1 since the Stoke game and even when Norwich did use that formation Howson never played at the point - he was always deeper.

[flecky76 0]

Great article that - thanks for sharing.

This really helps to illustrate my point in a recent thread whereby Hughton does not favour the David Fox (or Alonso) role in our play.  A deep-lying playmaker starts the play and you end up playing through that player, helping to keep the ball moving and adding an air of fluidity about a team.

When keeper''s have goal-kicks, a common sight in passing teams are when both centre-backs ''split'', by which I mean both go to the outer corners of the penalty areas and the deep lying passing midfielder comes deep to receive the ball.

We did this under Lambert - not to the extent of Swansea I hasten to add - but I found it intriguing and interesting to watch.  Foxy was superb in this role. 

Unfortunately, Hughton both rigid lines in (ie, a basic 4-4-2) and from that point on, our goal-kicks have been of the old-fashioned big punt variety, and our play has gone downhill through our midfield as a result, which for me is the key area of what is going wrong with NCFC right now - unfortunately it seems Hughton will simply not budge from his playing style ideas, and that for me means that I cannot possibly see how he can move us forward.  In the PL, you need to be able to demonstrate a set-up in quality, yet I am sometimes embarassed at how poor our midfield passing is on regular occasions.

 

[can u sit down please 0]

Great post flecky.

Howson to me, seems to have the energy and knack of being on the edge of the box like a box to box midfielder but more effective in the opponents half.

We we do have is options. Put all our Mids together we have a decent all round midfielder like gerrard!

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="flecky76"]

Great article that - thanks for sharing.

This really helps to illustrate my point in a recent thread whereby Hughton does not favour the David Fox (or Alonso) role in our play.  A deep-lying playmaker starts the play and you end up playing through that player, helping to keep the ball moving and adding an air of fluidity about a team.

When keeper''s have goal-kicks, a common sight in passing teams are when both centre-backs ''split'', by which I mean both go to the outer corners of the penalty areas and the deep lying passing midfielder comes deep to receive the ball.

We did this under Lambert - not to the extent of Swansea I hasten to add - but I found it intriguing and interesting to watch.  Foxy was superb in this role. 

Unfortunately, Hughton both rigid lines in (ie, a basic 4-4-2) and from that point on, our goal-kicks have been of the old-fashioned big punt variety, and our play has gone downhill through our midfield as a result, which for me is the key area of what is going wrong with NCFC right now - unfortunately it seems Hughton will simply not budge from his playing style ideas, and that for me means that I cannot possibly see how he can move us forward.  In the PL, you need to be able to demonstrate a set-up in quality, yet I am sometimes embarassed at how poor our midfield passing is on regular occasions.

[/quote]

 

I''m not sure how true that is - Norwich played the 2nd most long balls of any team in Lambert''s only season with Norwich in the prem and had the 2nd lowest posession - Norwich also managed to be the first team to ever allow Stoke more than 50% of the ball in a game. I would also say I don''t think Hughton has played a flat 4-4-2 on more than one or two occasions.

 

Whilst ball possession is still not a strong point for Norwich, there were clear signs of improvement when Tettey, Fer and Howson made up a three man midfield. Further injury to Howson has meant Norwich have been going more and more direct in recent games which is worrying considering lack of a decent target man.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

[quote user="flecky76"]

Great article that - thanks for sharing.This really helps to illustrate my point in a recent thread whereby Hughton does not favour the David Fox (or Alonso) role in our play.  A deep-lying playmaker starts the play and you end up playing through that player, helping to keep the ball moving and adding an air of fluidity about a team.When keeper''s have goal-kicks, a common sight in passing teams are when both centre-backs ''split'', by which I mean both go to the outer corners of the penalty areas and the deep lying passing midfielder comes deep to receive the ball.We did this under Lambert - not to the extent of Swansea I hasten to add - but I found it intriguing and interesting to watch.  Foxy was superb in this role.  Unfortunately, Hughton both rigid lines in (ie, a basic 4-4-2) and from that point on, our goal-kicks have been of the old-fashioned big punt variety, and our play has gone downhill through our midfield as a result, which for me is the key area of what is going wrong with NCFC right now - unfortunately it seems Hughton will simply not budge from his playing style ideas, and that for me means that I cannot possibly see how he can move us forward.  In the PL, you need to be able to demonstrate a set-up in quality, yet I am sometimes embarassed at how poor our midfield passing is on regular occasions.

 

[/quote]

 

What was also evident was how those player whose passing was limited instantly looked to play it to Fox. I remember reading one of Holtamania''s match reports that drew attention to this fact, stating that when Fox was on the pitch, Barnett would generally pass to him (ie Fox was his outlet) and we would retain possession. When Fox wasnt playing, Barnett would regularly hoof it up the pitch as he didnt really know what to do with it and possession would be lost, often restarting the cycle of defending a wave of attack from the opposition. Tettey definitely did this with Hoolahan a lot last season as well. Win the ball, pass to a teammate you know can pass well because you cant. 

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I''m not sure how true that is - Norwich played the 2nd most long balls of any team in Lambert''s only season with Norwich in the prem and had the 2nd lowest posession - Norwich also managed to be the first team to ever allow Stoke more than 50% of the ball in a game. I would also say I don''t think Hughton has played a flat 4-4-2 on more than one or two occasions.[/quote]

Where are you getting that 2nd lowest possession in the league under Lambert from? Whoscored have us as 13th for that season. Not sure the Stoke game is a fair example either if its the one where Barnett got sent off.

Hughton hasn''t played a flat 4-4-2 that often, but for much of last season we were playing that dire 4-4-1-1 where 4 of the midfield were set up in exactly the same rigid lines as a stereotypical 4-4-2.

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

That report needs to be re written comparing players to types of jeans, then I''ll take note .

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Came across these two articles too. Thought they might be of interest

 

http://www.football-analysis.com/the-regista-and-the-evolution-of-the-playmaker/

 

http://viewfromthestands9.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/regista-footballs-modern-day-phenomenon/

[Badger 2,405]

Very interesting article - thanks OP. Some good points made afterwards as well. It reminded me of quite how much our flexibility has been impacted by injuries recently.