Am I alone in being happy to see 1.5 million for Wes?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Anyone who watched our game against Man United and still cannot see that:

(i) Wes is a good premiership player;

(ii) His powers are not on the wane; and

(iii) we as a team generally play better and retain possession better when he is in the team.

does not know very much about football in my opinion.

I know people will bang on about consistency but he''s started 4 or 5 games this season and I don;t think has let us down in any of them. Ok Palace away was not his type of conditions but against United and Palace at home he was our best player whilst he was on the pitch.

Other than that he has started against Everton at home where i don;t think he let us down. I may be wrong but can''t think of any other games he has started for us?

Substitute appearances under Hughton don;t really tell you anything because players never get long enough to make an impact anyway.

Unbeaten run last season - Wes was in the team for most of it and playing well. key wins v WBA and Man City last season. Wes in the team and influential. In fact of our 10 league wins last season he started in 8 of them. When Wes gets a run of games in the side we have our best runs. When he starts being dropped, being brought on off the bench for a few minutes here and there he and we are far less effective.[/quote]

Sorry started in 9 of our 10 wins.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Sorry this is one of the few things I agree with Hughton on.

Wes was a great player for us but just doesn''t offer enough in the premier league especially as there is no real position for him especially if we were to play one up front.

In the diamond behind two strikers he can pull the strings and create chances, he is lost out wide and for some reason hardly ever shoots making it very easy for defenders to cut the supply route to an individual striker.

We need a player that can do everything Wes can as well as get double figures in terms of goals, otherwise for the most part we will look like the opposition have an extra player.

I would say he is probably worth a couple of million and whilst I agree that is peanuts you have to remember it would also free up a wage for his replacement.

Oh and by the way to whoever it was that said he was worth double what Holty was, id have him back in a heartbeat. If only to motivate the team something our manager clearly struggles to do.

With our current squad I would rather see Fer play in that position than Wes.

[barclay_boy111 0]

Indy you are spot on, he would make a very good championship player still however I don''t think he is at prem standard

p.s have your tin hat on mind as the hysteria surrounding Hoolahan is unreal

[GJP 79]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]  We need a player that can do everything Wes can as well as get double figures in terms of goals, [/quote]

I still think this is a bit of a myth in some ways.

 

How many Premier League players are going to get double figures this season?

 

You''re probably looking at a few outstanding players who play for the major clubs. Other than that most clubs are going to be glad if their main striker gets 10 or more.

 

Obviously there''s the odd exception but it''s rare.

[Indy 3,297]

I still think anything above 1.5 million is a good offer. Not sure City would accept this maybe the 3.5 million from Hull is more tempting, if true!

 

I never said about replcing Wes with a 1.5 million player, but using that as part of a bigger fee for a younger model! We missed out on Kadlec who at 21 and cost 3.5 million Euro''s would have been an excellent signing. But there are more gems out there, just need our scouts to come up with the goods.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I''d rather just keep him, he''s not on massive wages and £1.5m is nothing in our situation really. He makes us 10 times more interesting to watch and if he could use his right foot, he''d have won us the Fulham and Man U games. He is still a valuable player for us.

If we can go out there and buy a replacement, and watch him blossom with Wes as insurance, then i''ll be far more comfortable seeing him go, but as Lambert says, "them types of player are few and far between and are very dear."

I always feel like we have a chance when Wes is in the team.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Bad idea. What can you buy with 1.5 million these days? Sod all. Apart from in a Porsche or Bentley showroom, of course.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Le Juge"]If Hoolahan is sold for any less than £4m this January, or for any amount to Aston Villa, I''m not going to Carrow Road again until Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope are no longer at the club. And I mean that.[/quote]

 

you wont be needing your season ticket then.. i''ll make you an offer based on the remaining games...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

If we let him go to Villa I''ll be furious. How can he good enough for Villa but not us? F ing joke.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="nutty nigel"]Two things to think about here. First it''s untrue Hughton doesn''t play Hoolahan because he''s used him in 9 league games this season which surely means he''s an important squad member.[/quote]As CJF has already pointed out, he may have featured in nine games but the actual amount of time on the pitch puts this statistic into proper perspective.Across four of those games he managed a grand total of 50 minutes (17, 12, 2, 19 mins respectively), and he hasn''t had single game all season where he''s played the full 90 minutes (the 88 against Man Utd the other week was the closest), with the majority falling around 73 minutes (across 5 games), giving a grand total of 418 league minutes.Only Murphy and Benno have had less minutes in our midfield, with even Tettey and Pilks (who''ve spent half the season injured) having been given more game time...So why does such an important squad member get so little playing time if he''s so strongly in Hughton''s plans???The reason is simple - he isn''t in Hughton''s plans the majority of the time, and it doesn''t matter whether this is fair (or even correct judgment) or not, until Hughton changes his mind or another manager comes in, Wes will be stuck on the outskirts of the squad regardless of how well he''s playing when he is brought in...[/quote]

 

But in a 25 man squad some will play more than others. Or should Hughton divide the games up equally?

 

 

[the bristol nest 0]

Quote ]If we let him go to Villa I''ll be furious. How can he good enough for Villa but not us? F ing joke.

This

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Wes has done some good things for us over the years, but, sorry, to my mind he  has always been, and certainly will continue to be basically a Championship player, who, from time to time, can provide a good cameo role in the Prem . Nothing more. I know he''s a fans favourite, but, if Hughton can get anything approaching 2 mil for him, then that would be good business imho.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]But in a 25 man squad some will play more than others. Or should Hughton divide the games up equally?[/quote]That approach isn''t going to cut any ice either NN.Truly important squad players do not spend less time on the pitch than fringe players or youngsters.Pilks and Tettey have missed close to a dozen games through injury each and STILL have more minutes on the pitch than does Wes does, even 4th choice strikers like Javier Hernandez at Man Utd have had more time on the pitch than Wes has!Fer, Howson, Redmond, Johnson and Snoddy have all managed relatively similar amounts of match time (Fer being the main outlier), so the only conclusion that can fairly be drawn from all this is that Hughton does NOT rate Wes above our other players, and that he does NOT consider him to be a truly important squad player or he''d have used him far more - especially with the ongoing injury problems we''ve faced...

[nutty nigel 7,531]

What fringe players have spent more time on the pitch than Wes?

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="nutty nigel"]But in a 25 man squad some will play more than others. Or should Hughton divide the games up equally?[/quote]That approach isn''t going to cut any ice either NN.Truly important squad players do not spend less time on the pitch than fringe players or youngsters.Pilks and Tettey have missed close to a dozen games through injury each and STILL have more minutes on the pitch than does Wes does, even 4th choice strikers like Javier Hernandez at Man Utd have had more time on the pitch than Wes has!Fer, Howson, Redmond, Johnson and Snoddy have all managed relatively similar amounts of match time (Fer being the main outlier), so the only conclusion that can fairly be drawn from all this is that Hughton does NOT rate Wes above our other players, and that he does NOT consider him to be a truly important squad player or he''d have used him far more - especially with the ongoing injury problems we''ve faced...[/quote]Good call , Indy. It''s pretty clear that Wes only appears fitfully in CH''s plans.That''s the only explanation why he''s figured so rarely. If another manager were to come in, I doubt if it would be any different. So.....on that basis if we can get the reported figure for a 31 yo fringe player, lets take it, with the one proviso that the cash goes straight into the kitty to bring in someone who will be of real value.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="nutty nigel"]But in a 25 man squad some will play more than others. Or should Hughton divide the games up equally?[/quote]That approach isn''t going to cut any ice either NN.Truly important squad players do not spend less time on the pitch than fringe players or youngsters.Pilks and Tettey have missed close to a dozen games through injury each and STILL have more minutes on the pitch than does Wes does, even 4th choice strikers like Javier Hernandez at Man Utd have had more time on the pitch than Wes has!Fer, Howson, Redmond, Johnson and Snoddy have all managed relatively similar amounts of match time (Fer being the main outlier), so the only conclusion that can fairly be drawn from all this is that Hughton does NOT rate Wes above our other players, and that he does NOT consider him to be a truly important squad player or he''d have used him far more - especially with the ongoing injury problems we''ve faced...[/quote]Good call , Indy. It''s pretty clear that Wes only appears fitfully in CH''s plans.That''s the only explanation why he''s figured so rarely. If another manager were to come in, I doubt if it would be any different. So.....on that basis if we can get the reported figure for a 31 yo fringe player, lets take it, with the one proviso that the cash goes straight into the kitty to bring in someone who will be of real value.[/quote]

But it''s a pathetic amount that does not add to our kitty meaningfully and will allow a rival to strengthen on the cheap. I just don''t see any convincing justification to sell him but then I come from a standpoint whereby I would rather see Wes playing more often than he does and this manager relieved of his job rather than being allowed to jettison one of our best players who I am sure would not be interested in going were it not for the managers obvious lack of desire to play him.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

But it''s a pathetic amount that does not add to our kitty meaningfully and will allow a rival to strengthen on the cheap. I just don''t see any convincing justification to sell him but then I come from a standpoint whereby I would rather see Wes playing more often than he does and this manager relieved of his job rather than being allowed to jettison one of our best players who I am sure would not be interested in going were it not for the managers obvious lack of desire to play him.[/quote]OK to say that at face value, Jim, but whilst I''d agree that 1.5 to 2 mill will not in itself buy a decent player outright, what you are overlooking that it could just make all the difference in securing a really influential player who is pricier. For example, if we gibbed at paying 5mill for such a recruit, and were only able to cough upo 3 mill, then the extra 2 ill from Wes might just enable a deal to happen. AND stop that player from joining Swansea, Cardiff or Sunderland etc.Theoretical, I know, but how many times has that few extra qud made a telling impact in these situations.? It''s not always as clear cut as you are suggesting.

[Six Pack 93]

Reggie Strayshun wrote:

Wes has done some good things for us over the years, but, sorry, to my mind he has always been, and certainly will continue to be basically a Championship player, who, from time to time, can provide a good cameo role in the Prem . Nothing more. I know he''s a fans favourite,

............................................................................

Do you not find it strange that the majority of fans want him to stay and want him playing ? It actually may be that he''s a real good player and you''re the one that is odd !

Championship player - oh yes we tried him at that level before but he was too good for them & rocketed us up to the premiership.

Man United, Man City, Arsenal - thought they were in the prem ! Better tell Hoolahan - he''s confused & is carving up the wrong people.

[Six Pack 93]

Keegans groves wrote:

With our current squad I would rather see Fer play in that position than Wes.

............................................................................

Tell me you''re not serious !!! He''s been in most of the games - why have we so few points ????

Clueless !

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Six Pack"]Reggie Strayshun wrote:

Wes has done some good things for us over the years, but, sorry, to my mind he has always been, and certainly will continue to be basically a Championship player, who, from time to time, can provide a good cameo role in the Prem . Nothing more. I know he''s a fans favourite,

............................................................................

Do you not find it strange that the majority of fans want him to stay and want him playing ? It actually may be that he''s a real good player and you''re the one that is odd !

Championship player - oh yes we tried him at that level before but he was too good for them & rocketed us up to the premiership.

Man United, Man City, Arsenal - thought they were in the prem ! Better tell Hoolahan - he''s confused & is carving up the wrong people.[/quote]Erm, Six Pack, he did not play in all the Championship games by any means, so clearly was not "too good" for that level.What have Man U, City and Arsenal got to do with this ?!What the "majority of fans" want is for us to improve our squad year on year. My belief is not that they particularly want Wes to be part of that, but inclined to give him a try in the current difficult circumstances. NOT the same thing.Look...I''m not saying that he''s not a perfectly competent player who can do a job for us from time. But he''s past his best, and I maintain that if we can get good money for him to improve the squad further in key areas, then it''s the way these things work. If you cannot see that, then that''s your problem.....

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]What fringe players have spent more time on the pitch than Wes? [/quote]Sorry NN, I forgot that being the 8th most selected player out of our 12 midfielders (2 of which have been on loan - Surman and Fox, with Benno out for pretty much most of the season and Murphy a youngster) makes him the beating heart of our midfield...oh wait...Even a 40 year old Ryan Giggs has played only 15 minutes less than Wes has this season - and that''s with Man Utd''s midfield FFS!Stop trying to flog a dead horse here Nigel and admit that regardless of how good Wes may or may not be, he is NOT well favoured by Hughton this season and there has been no indication that this is going to change any time soon either!

[Six Pack 93]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Six Pack"]Reggie Strayshun wrote:

Wes has done some good things for us over the years, but, sorry, to my mind he has always been, and certainly will continue to be basically a Championship player, who, from time to time, can provide a good cameo role in the Prem . Nothing more. I know he''s a fans favourite,

............................................................................

Do you not find it strange that the majority of fans want him to stay and want him playing ? It actually may be that he''s a real good player and you''re the one that is odd !

Championship player - oh yes we tried him at that level before but he was too good for them & rocketed us up to the premiership.

Man United, Man City, Arsenal - thought they were in the prem ! Better tell Hoolahan - he''s confused & is carving up the wrong people.[/quote]Erm, Six Pack, he did not play in all the Championship games by any means, so clearly was not "too good" for that level.What have Man U, City and Arsenal got to do with this ?!What the "majority of fans" want is for us to improve our squad year on year. My belief is not that they particularly want Wes to be part of that, but inclined to give him a try in the current difficult circumstances. NOT the same thing.Look...I''m not saying that he''s not a perfectly competent player who can do a job for us from time. But he''s past his best, and I maintain that if we can get good money for him to improve the squad further in key areas, then it''s the way these things work. If you cannot see that, then that''s your problem.....[/quote]

Reggie Strayshun............ do not change the subject.

I was replying to your idiotic comment that Hoolahan is a championship player.

I am stating that he doesn''t play in the championship - he plays in the premiership !

He did once play in the championship when the club played in that division, but was too good -that''s why we got promoted. When we got promoted we had to be some good players in the team - it wasn''t a massive fluke ?

What has Man U, Man City & Arsenal got to do with it ??? You don''t understand so I needed to give you an example - these are some of the best clubs in the land. Did you see his personal performances against those clubs.

We beat those clubs & Hoolahan was one of the key players. Sure he doesn''t score many goals but neither do the others. That''s Hooper''s job.

You want to change the subject and talk about improvement. I thought that player improvements meant we''d get better results.You think that just because we have acquired a few foreign players we have improved the team ? I gauge it by how the team plays, player performances & results.

Why are we 3 points off the relegation zone ?

Why do we look better when Hoolahan plays ?

I agree the likes of Fer, Howson & Bassong are good players - but there are many similar players to these & you will easily find a like-for- like replacement for them.

Those with skills of Hoolahan are scarce. So you won''t replace him easily unless you''ve got real deep pockets like Man City or Chelsea.

Watch the game, understand the game - but don''t come on here and talk garble !!!

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Six Pack"][ So you won''t replace him easily unless you''ve got real deep pockets like Man City or Chelsea.

Watch the game, understand the game - but don''t come on here and talk garble !!![/quote]

The very reason that we need to be looking.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Six Pack"][ So you won''t replace him easily unless you''ve got real deep pockets like Man City or Chelsea.

Watch the game, understand the game - but don''t come on here and talk garble !!![/quote]

The very reason that we need to be looking.[/quote]Took the words right out of my mouth Ricardo. Wes will need replacing and soon. And if we can get good money for him, that will help.It matters not one iota if that comes from Paul Lambert/Aston Villa.As for changing the subject, SP, well I do not see how I''ve done that. I''m dealing with the wider issue of whether Wes is a long term prospect for us.You say he''s a "Premiership player". Because he "plays in the Premiership." Well, unfortunately, he doesn''t, SP, does he ? Not with any regularity anyway.As some others have said, I wish you and the other Wes champions would stop flogging a dead horse. Wes clearly does not feature in CH''s long term plans, so he needs to be replaced with someone who is . End of.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="nutty nigel"]What fringe players have spent more time on the pitch than Wes? [/quote]Sorry NN, I forgot that being the 8th most selected player out of our 12 midfielders (2 of which have been on loan - Surman and Fox, with Benno out for pretty much most of the season and Murphy a youngster) makes him the beating heart of our midfield...oh wait...Even a 40 year old Ryan Giggs has played only 15 minutes less than Wes has this season - and that''s with Man Utd''s midfield FFS!Stop trying to flog a dead horse here Nigel and admit that regardless of how good Wes may or may not be, he is NOT well favoured by Hughton this season and there has been no indication that this is going to change any time soon either![/quote]

 

So it''s those fringe players.......

 

Wes has been selected in17 match day squads. There is no other player like him at the club. That makes him pretty important in my eyes and unless a replacement comes in it would be ridiculous to sell him and would take some spin to convince me any sale wasn''t against the manager''s wishes.

 

 

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Wes has been selected in17 match day squads.[/quote]And?Becchio has been selected in 15 match days squads, so by your standards he must be just as important to us as Wes is (which is why Becchio has been given 26 minutes play out of those 15 match day squads)... [quote]There is no other player like him at the club. That makes him pretty important in my eyes and unless a replacement comes in it would be ridiculous to sell him and would take some spin to convince me any sale wasn''t against the manager''s wishes.[/quote]Aargh...It''s like banging your head against the wall sometimes.IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW GOOD WES IS OR ISN''T IF THE MANAGER WILL NOT PLAY HIM FFS!!!It''s like going to a Ferrari only racetrack in a Lamborghini and then arguing the toss that it''s more than good enough to compete with the Ferrari''s - The race organisers don''t gave a damn what you think - Because it''s a Ferrari only racetrack and no amount of evidence or argument to the contrary will make them change their minds!And if he''s so damn important to Hughton why doesn''t he:A) Play him more oftenB) Come out and make it clear that we are not interested in offers for himI suppose you''re simply going to ignore all this yet again though NN and restart going round in circles with pointless arguments...

[nutty nigel 7,531]

What''s the relevance of Becchio? Are you suggesting he should have played more minutes ahead of RVW, Hooper and Elmander?

 

If Wes isn''t important who would you have put in the matchday squad in his place?

 

 

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]What''s the relevance of Becchio?[/quote]Because you made a big point about Wes being in 17 match days sqauds to justify his importance to the team, and I''m pointing out that Becchio has been in virtually the same amount of squads yet I doubt anyone on here is going to argue that he''s an important player for us are they???[quote]If Wes isn''t important who would you have put in the matchday squad in his place?[/quote]If Becchio isn''t important why is HE in the matchday squad then???You can''t have it both ways Nigel, either the number of times in the squad is relevant and demonstrates a level of importance to the team (which I just don''t agree with), or it''s completely irrelevant because the better players would be in the first XI more often than not, rather than sitting on the bench for 75% of the season...Truly important players do not spend most of their time sat on the bench, and quite how you cannot grasp this incredibly simple premise is beyond me tbh...

[YellowNets1901 0]

Wes wants out of NCFC. This is now a fact.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="nutty nigel"]What''s the relevance of Becchio?[/quote]Because you made a big point about Wes being in 17 match days sqauds to justify his importance to the team, and I''m pointing out that Becchio has been in virtually the same amount of squads yet I doubt anyone on here is going to argue that he''s an important player for us are they???[quote]If Wes isn''t important who would you have put in the matchday squad in his place?[/quote]If Becchio isn''t important why is HE in the matchday squad then???You can''t have it both ways Nigel, either the number of times in the squad is relevant and demonstrates a level of importance to the team (which I just don''t agree with), or it''s completely irrelevant because the better players would be in the first XI more often than not, rather than sitting on the bench for 75% of the season...Truly important players do not spend most of their time sat on the bench, and quite how you cannot grasp this incredibly simple premise is beyond me tbh...[/quote]

 

So are you suggesting that if we have injuries to forwards then Becchio the 4th striker shouldn''t be in the match day squad.

 

Wes is the only player at the club who offers what he does. That very fact means he''s important and should always be in the matchday squad. Whether the manager decides to go with his talents is a different issue altogether. Who would you have left out to give Wes more game time?