In the same boat

[lake district canary 4,830]

Two clubs, struggling with managers of 18 months standing.  Both defensive minded, both struggling for goals, both clubs with a group of fans complaining bitterly about the style of the play.   Both managers trying to build something over a period of time.  Those clubs?

Norwich and Villa.

Both clubs have kept their nerve and kept their managers so far.  Their respective boo boys have not been allowed to dictate or upset projects that are in mid-development.  Assuming both clubs survive this season - they will both be able to push on again.  Both will upgrade the squads and both clubs should start to improve more and more as time goes on.   That is because they essentially both have good managers.  The easiest thing for the clubs to do is to say to the managers - "the fans don''t like the style of football, so you''re out" - but they would both be foolish imo if they did that.  Management is not easily quantifiable.  Imo, Lambert will get Villa to be competitive again as he gets his kind of players in and Hughton will do the same at Norwich - in a different style of course (more like he did with Newcastle and Birmingham - solid, fluid and scoring plenty).

Its just interesting to me that both managers - both of whom we know so well -  had free-scoring attacking teams previously - are struggling to get that going again at their new clubs.   Time will tell how they get on from now on, but my money is on them both to succeed eventually.    

[Gingerpele 0]

Is Abramovic''s boat even big enough to fit two football clubs in?

Although I did read someone made a bigger boat than him, i bet he''s upset. Surprised he hasn''t sold Torres to make an even bigger one.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Is Abramovic''s boat even big enough to fit two football clubs in?

Although I did read someone made a bigger boat than him, i bet he''s upset. Surprised he hasn''t sold Torres to make an even bigger one.[/quote]It isnt that long ago that of the biggest ten floating Gin Palaces in the world, young Roman owned 6 of them. Are you saying that''s no longer the case, GP ?Poor love. How will he survive ?

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Its just interesting to me that both managers - both of whom we know so well -  had free-scoring attacking teams previously - are struggling to get that going again at their new clubs. [/quote]At least one of those two managers actually appears to be TRYING to attack though, and is willing to make attacking subs to try and get something out of a game...

[crabbycanary 2]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]Its just interesting to me that both managers - both of whom we know so well -  had free-scoring attacking teams previously - are struggling to get that going again at their new clubs. [/quote]At least one of those two managers actually appears to be TRYING to attack though, and is willing to make attacking subs to try and get something out of a game...[/quote]

Although that''s not the reason why, it is his fans that are moaning the most

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Lakey''s post got me thinking, and there do appear to ave been some fundamental shifts since this time last year re Villa and Norwich, but mainly Villa.Last season their problem was not surrounding scoring goals . Benteke et al were prolific. No, it was just the defence was leaking them even faster. This season PL has tightened things up, but the goals have dried up.In our case, CH had seemingly sorted the defence out , but we couldn''t buy a goal (remember all the 0-0 draws and narrow defeats ?) . However this year we still have the goalscoring problem, but we are conceding more (though that does seem to be improving, touch wood) . so there are fundamental differences between the two clubs'' situations.

[snake-eyes 13]

LDC

 

Please read my previous posts regarding the similarities or in fact lack of between the two clubs and the two managers!

 

This is clearly another attempt at belittling those who prefer Lambert to Hughton by trying to, and with respect poorly, compare the two jobs to make CH appear to be as good as.

 

I will explain again, in case you missed it.

 

Norwich with a buoyant and confident positive side needed to EVOLVE.

Villa with a deflated and negative side needed a REVOLUTION to put things right!

 

The first should, with the position it was in when change happened, be doing better than they are, instead of regressing.

 

The second, with a complete change of direction needed and implemented, was always going to take a little time, especially in the Premier League.

 

Maybe Villa should be doing better than they are, but I must admit I have more faith in PL to get Villa to where they want to be than CH to get Norwich to where we want to be (even though some here seem to think we are already there).

 

Such short memories.  2 Seasons ago we finished comfortably outside of the drop zone, with games to spare. Villa survived by the skin of their teeth playing even worse football than now.

 

 

[snake-eyes 13]

Sorry LDC that was a bit harsh! Not intended!

 

My point is that I just feel people have got very short memories and that the comparison between the two is based purely on the acrimonious departure of PL.

 

Snake

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]LDC  Please read my previous posts regarding the similarities or in fact lack of between the two clubs and the two managers!   

 This is clearly another attempt at belittling those who prefer Lambert to Hughton by trying to, and with respect poorly, compare the two jobs to make CH appear to be as good as.

 Norwich with a buoyant and confident positive side needed to EVOLVE.

Villa with a deflated and negative side needed a REVOLUTION to put things right!

The first should, with the position it was in when change happened, be doing better than they are, instead of regressing.

The second, with a complete change of direction needed and implemented, was always going to take a little time, especially in the Premier League.

 [/quote]

I''m sorry, I don''t recall seeing your posts on the subject.

Secondly there is no attempt by me to belittle anybody.  It genuinely strikes me that the similarities are quite stark - even if it is for different reasons. We have an intimate knowledge of both managers and the net result of both managers new jobs is that they appear both to arrived at a similar standpoint with their teams by whatever route - apparently struggling to play good football.    Your evolving/revolting may well be true, but is not relevant to what I am saying.  I am simply stating where the clubs are now, not how they got there.  

To me it will be interesting to see how both the clubs develop - as I said I think they will both be successful.

PS - Not everything a poster writes has to have an  agenda.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

OK then, Lakey. Snake has had his ten penn''orth . You say it will be interesting to see the contrast as to how the clubs develop, and that they will both be successful. You could well be right. But.....Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. How will this manifest itself ?

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]OK then, Lakey. Snake has had his ten penn''orth . You say it will be interesting to see the contrast as to how the clubs develop, and that they will both be successful. You could well be right. But.....Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. How will this manifest itself ?[/quote]

Success is success, but my thoughts are that we will see both clubs develop well. Of course the opposite could happen and both clubs could lose their managers and be back to square one, but the one thing in both their favours is that they are neither of them in the drop zone and there are reasons to see that things could get better for both of them. With us its injured players returning and Villa that their obviously capable strikers start scoring again.

PS - apology accepted SE :-)

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Is Abramovic''s boat even big enough to fit two football clubs in?

Although I did read someone made a bigger boat than him, i bet he''s upset. Surprised he hasn''t sold Torres to make an even bigger one.[/quote]It isnt that long ago that of the biggest ten floating Gin Palaces in the world, young Roman owned 6 of them. Are you saying that''s no longer the case, GP ?Poor love. How will he survive ?[/quote]

I believe so Reggie. Not sure how he''ll manage.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"] Success is success, but my thoughts are that we will see both clubs develop well. Of course the opposite could happen and both clubs could lose their managers and be back to square one, but the one thing in both their favours is that they are neither of them in the drop zone and there are reasons to see that things could get better for both of them. With us its injured players returning and Villa that their obviously capable strikers start scoring again.

PS - apology accepted SE :-)[/quote]If I''m absolutely honest, Lakey, I''m not really all that bothered what happens to AV; really only NCFC that bothers me. I suppose it all rather depends on what your definition of the "drop zone" is ! Of course you are correct in saying that neither are in the bottom 3, but I''m afraid, as far as I''m concerned both are very much in the "drop zone" . There is the potential for things to look brighter, but also for things to go seriously t!ts up for both . And I think you are being a little mischievous in stating that losing their managers would be a bad thing..... But we''ll not go down that particular road again ?I know it''s not terribly PC to say it, but I''m in no doubt that of the two clubs Villa have more latent potential, and no doubt expectations are higher . Also that if Deadly Doug was still running the show at Villa Pk, Lambert would already be history!

[lake district canary 4,830]

Well Reg, I''m not bothered about AV either, but I do know their manager well - as do we all - so it is interesting to me to compare the two of them - particularly as at this moment in time fans of both clubs are saying the same things about both of the managers.

[Dubai Mark 0]

LDC thanks for an interesting original post, I too find this topic interesting and cannot help but keep an eye on how Villa are doing under PL and agree with your prediction on the outcome. I have a friend in the UK who is a life long Villa supporter, his expectations are huge, and he really has a problem with how little PL has achieved......and I have been trying to reassure him......strange but true!