Tom Ince for 4m? - worth a punt yes or no.

Indy_Bones · January 10, 2014

[quote user="morty"]Yes we get it Indy, you mention it in every post, Hughton isn''t Lambert.[/quote]Nice attempt to dodge my question there Morty...Let''s try again:Do you think our wingers are not good enough and that we need to buy a replacement in this transfer window?

morty · January 10, 2014

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="morty"]Yes we get it Indy, you mention it in every post, Hughton isn''t Lambert.[/quote]Nice attempt to dodge my question there Morty...Let''s try again:Do you think our wingers are not good enough and that we need to buy a replacement in this transfer window?[/quote]Not in the slightest interested in "debating" anything with you fella as the answer is pretty much always "Hughtons''s negative tactics / Hughton isn''t Lambert"Have a good day[Y]

Indy_Bones · January 10, 2014

Yet another refusal to answer the question and instead a deliberate sidestep joined with a dig at me personally.Either you think our wingers are good enough or they''re not, if they''re good enough then we have to look at WHY they aren''t performing amazingly well this season (and to a certain degree last season as well) - something has does have to fall partially under Hughtons remit, if you feel that they''re not good enough then what''s the harm in saying you think we should be looking for someone better???You''re not normally shy in giving your opinion, so why can''t you give us a genuine answer to what you think about this situation?I''m guessing it''s probably because you DO think they are more than capable,

but don''t want to actually admit that you don''t think the manager is

getting the best out of them, ergo you don''t want to be seen as supporting any ''anti-hughton'' views (even if you''re simply pointing out that you think they could be playing better football)...

mrs miggins · January 10, 2014

i''ll answer it then indy, although can totally understand why morty will not.

This season we have bought redmond (thank god). Last season we had great performances from snodgrass and a lot of our goals came from set pieces ala stoke. Very boring to watch though, which hughton recognised (but was essential in keeping us up). This season we are trying to play a much more balanced style of football, where we defend and attack equally, instead of keeping a tight hold through the whole game (or at least try) and then get the point or perhaps the odd goal. Although our attacking play is much better generally and is more entertaining to watch, individual errors are the problem. Take redmond for example, at the start of the season when we had everyone fit, we used him partly as an impact player, which worked really well because he terrorises defences and we use him when its good for his development. Now everyone is injured except him and snodgrass, his performances have significantly dropped, he goes missing in games, much like pilkington and wes did under lambert sometimes.

When looking at snodgrass, perhaps our best player last season (i think bassong did a little better, who also fits in this example), it is the player who is not playing well. Snodgrass is not trying to do anything differently really as a player to last season; cutting back and crossing, winning free kicks....(and penalties *cough cough) or waiting of matin to overlap him down the wing. The difference is that firstly his dead balls (hello hello) haven''t been good enough (as well as the fact that we have elmander as our ''presence'' as a striker where scoring goals has never really been his game, but thats another story), and his passing has been woeful. A little part of that is probably the new strike force we have, but most of it is our wingers need to play better. Redmonds running out of steam at the moment and snodders is in bad form, we need our wingers fit and we need to buy some quality. The person who we''ve seen can do this is chris hughton, well unless you want to go back to the championship and say look ''we''ve bought nahki wells, what a great signing''

Indy · January 10, 2014

I don''t think Ince is a good as all that. Last seaosn he had a blinder and he''s a good player but not any real improvement on what we have and for me might stand in the way of Josh Murphy development. I think this lad is a gem, has the potential to be a star.

I agree that he''s young and needs time to learn, but in my book he''s in the same camp as Januzaj & Barkley, good enough for time on the pitch in the premiership.

Yellow Wal · January 10, 2014

Indy_Bones wrote the following post at 10/01/2014 8:25 AM:

Yellow Wall wrote:

How can people say we do not need a winger?

Like this - "We do not need a winger".Easy isn''t it...

We have a couple that may turn out to be good, in a season or two, but we need one now.

A) Pilks is expected back available just after the Fulham replay which will give us more opportunity to give Redmond a restB) Snoddy is still here and uninjured unless I''ve missed something?C) Redmond is also still here and uninjured unless I''ve missed both him and Snoddy being injured?D) We also have players like Olsson who can play on the wing if requiredE) We have the Murphy twins to use as impact subs if needed.F) At some point (hopefully sooner rather than later) Benno will also be back from injury to give us further options.So

are you suggesting that SIX actual wingers (along with 1-2 others who

can play there) is insufficient cover for the two wing roles, and we

should instead pay overinflated January prices for yet another one when

there are clearly key positions that need bolstering first with those

funds???The problem is NOT that our wingers aren''t good enough,

it''s that they''re being shackled by Hughton''s more defensive approach

and style of play. This is why Wes and Fox can''t get a game, why Holt

looked awful last year and why the first main rumour about our potential

signings in Jan is for a hulking, error prone Centre back instead of a

cultured, ball playing midfielder...

Indy - A. Pilks is expected back - yes, but for how long? OK he can do a job but he still goes missing for long periods of a game even when he is fit and to be fair is not the quickest winger I have seen.B. Snoddy - the most frustrating ''winger'' I have seen for us in many seasons. Nothing annoys me more than see him putting in cross after cross with his left foot after slowing an attack down, cutting back inside and delivering it to the heart of the opposition defence to be easily dealt with by defenders, giving our strikers no chance. He has little pace and seems unable to cross with his right foot. Granted he works hard and is decent at dead ball situations but I feel from open play he creates little. Perhaps a change of position, away from the right wing, would help him, and us.C. Yes Redmond is fit but as I said - We have a couple that may turn out to be good, in a season or two, but we need one now. His decision making at the moment leaves a lot to be desired.D. Olsson can play there ....... so can Whittaker, perhaps R Martin, perhaps Garrido. But Olsson is a full back, not a winger.E. The Murphy twins - as Redmond, they will be good, but they are very much still learning.F. Benno had a good start to the season but I think most people would say the jury is still out.One thing I would wholeheartedly agree with you is that I feel most of those players would improve and be more of a threat with different leadership. One that would encourage our wingers to hit the goal line and get in crosses. I do not feel the inverted winger system that is used at the moment is effective. We scored last week when Murphy hit the line and delivered a cross from an advanced, wide position, something that rarely happens these days. That must be so frustrating for, what I consider to be, our two good strikers. I was further annoyed to hear in the interview with Josh Murphy that he was encouraged to come inside and shoot, the one thing that so often spoils Redmond''s game as he does not yet know when to do that and when to supply other players.You say you would like a ball playing midfielder. I feel he too would find it frustrating, as I feel Leroy does, as the inverted wingers close the game down so much that the openings are very limited to be able to play telling through balls.Without a pacy effective winger, that can cause damage to an opposition defence on the break, our goal scoring will not be easy.

Indy_Bones · January 10, 2014

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Although our attacking play is much better generally and is more entertaining to watch, individual errors are the problem.[/quote]HOW is our attacking play much better!?!?!We''re scoring less goals each season whilst barely changing our goal against tally. The mark of effective attacking play is certainly NOT the fact that we''re scoring far less is it???[quote]Take redmond for example, at the start of the season when we had everyone fit, we used him partly as an impact player, which worked really well because he terrorises defences and we use him when its good for his development. Now everyone is injured except him and snodgrass, his performances have significantly dropped, he goes missing in games, much like pilkington and wes did under lambert sometimes.[/quote]You could also argue that when he arrived at the start of the season he hadn''t been told to spend more time defending than attacking, and since this has been coached into him, it''s contributed to his dip in performance...[quote]Snodgrass is not trying to do anything differently really as a player to last season; cutting back and crossing, winning free kicks....(and penalties *cough cough) or waiting for martin to overlap him down the wing.[/quote]And who is responsible for telling a player to change their game if they aren''t performing???Clearly Hughton is happy with the way he''s playing him because he did the same last season and he''s being asked to do the same again this year. If you want Snoddy to change his game, then have a word with the manager in order to facilitate this![quote]The difference is that firstly his dead balls (hello hello) haven''t been good enough (as well as the fact that we have elmander as our ''presence'' as a striker where scoring goals has never really been his game, but thats another story), and his passing has been woeful.[/quote]The dead balls I''ll give you, but his passing and crossing hasn''t changed much at all.His overall pass success is slightly down this season by about 1%, but his cross success has improved from 2.2 per game to 2.7 per game - the difference is that we don''t have the players on the end of those crosses to finish them...[quote]we need our wingers fit and we need to buy some quality. The person who we''ve seen can do this is chris hughton[/quote]I will fully agree that he''s made some very good signings as manager, what I would disagree with is that he''s then got the best out of those players afterwards...

mrs miggins · January 10, 2014

well i agree that some of the players aren''t playing to their full potential, the main culprits being bassong, who missed pre season and snodgrass. Like I said in my post its a combination of new strikers coming in and the fact that key individuals aren''t in form. Though if you look at our overall play, it''s much more exciting than last season, instead of trying to buy free kicks, we are now trying to play, so i can see what hughton is trying to do. We need more goals like fee''s against west broom though, when we have hooper and the wolf playing together, something that is a very exciting prospect

Yellow Wal · January 10, 2014

mrs miggins wrote the following post at 10/01/2014 11:05 AM:

well i agree that some of the players aren''t playing to their full

potential, the main culprits being bassong, who missed pre season and

snodgrass. Like I said in my post its a combination of new strikers

coming in and the fact that key individuals aren''t in form. Though if

you look at our overall play, it''s much more exciting than last season,

instead of trying to buy free kicks, we are now trying to play, so i can

see what hughton is trying to do. We need more goals like fee''s against

west broom though, when we have hooper and the wolf playing together,
something that is a very exciting prospectThe only way that will be exciting is if we can give those players some service. If they have to work off the scraps they are getting at the moment they will be just as ineffective as any other strikers we play. I feel we have two very good strikers, I just hope they are given the opportunity to show that.

Surfer · January 10, 2014

If not Ince, Dani Pacheco anyone?

mrs miggins · January 10, 2014

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]