Fox

[morty 0]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Did you SEE Cody''s overhead kick last week?  ;)[/quote][:D]

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Did you SEE Cody''s overhead kick last week?  ;)[/quote]

Where is he now btw? I haven''t followed his progress since leaving as some do with past players. Only really keep an eye out for Huddersfield and Derby scores to see if Vaughan or Martin were the scorers.

And totally agree Morty. He has been over hyped after one game. I always liked Foxy and genuinely have no reason to think he is either good enough, or not good enough to not be playing. 

I barely remember what he brings to the table as its been so long and we have moved on. But I''d love if for some reason, with some new personnel around him since he last played, if he suddenly found a new lease of life and helped us become a greater threat in the final third. Thats ideal for him and the team, as it could reignite his career, even if it means we upgrade on his place in the squad come summer which I''d hope for. Then he''d get a decent move, and we''d have benefitted.

Thats my dream outcome anyway. In all likelihood, we''ll probably see him vs Fulham, and maybe he''ll disappear back into the ether. I''m reserving judgement on him. I shall not praise before time, same as I shall not beat down on RVW.

One game does not a good/bad player make.

[can u sit down please 0]

No exaggeration from me.

Just that I rate him and can''t understand why someone who offers us something and is different to the other players hasn''t got a sniff.

He got hammered after the Luton game when clearly match fitness was an issue. Yet when other players have returned to the team and lacked match fitness, they''ve been given a "waver".

We lack someone who can retain possession. If he was to play with someone like tettey in the right game it would work a treat.

On the subject if him not being a ball winner, if you look at football now, the passing holding midfielder is far more popular than the ball winning one. I expect hughton to catch on in a year, if he''s still here.

As for loan moves or moves for that matter, they don''t always work out.

Although younger, Kieran Gibbs was considered by most as a poor player. Look at him now.

Fox played the first 7 games on loan at barnsely and to quote my season ticket holding cousin "was alright". He joined a struggling team and in the first few games faced Leicester, Reading , qpr and boro.

Teams that a team like barnsley surely can''t compete with if we can''t have expectations of beating Fulham/villa/Sunderland/Swansea etc....

Fox just before the millwall game got mumps. Here in the match preview on the daily mail site "Midfielder David Fox was missing as well having contracted mumps."

Any conspiracy theory that he wasn''t good enough is wide of the mark.

Barnsley then changed manager which we know.

I''m not rallying him to play every week but those that are shielding hughton need to acknowledge that a perfectly callable player has been overlooked when he could''ve been doing a job for us.

Moves don''t always go to plan and sometimes we don''t get the full picture.

After all, ask Leeds about Adam drury......

[can u sit down please 0]

Bloody iPhone!

"Teams like barnsley surely can''t compete with teams like that"

And "capable" not "callable".

[lharman7 39]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]As far as I can see, no one has yet considered that Lambert bought Howson in January 2012. He was injured but when he was gut Lambert played him.....

In place of a Fox.

Even Lambert who clearly valued and rated Fox thought Howson was the better player.[/quote]

I reckon Lambert bought Howson as a long term replacement for Hoolahan. Howson clearly plays his better game when given freedom to go forward. He plays much more direct than Wes too!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

The key with Fox in mhy view is the system you play and who you play him alongside.

He is an excellent passer and player who can dictate tempo but the one area he lacks is a bit of athleticism. he therefore probably cannot play the holding midfield role on his own in the premier league as he is too easily bypassed by direct running.

When fit, the only player we have who i believe is truly capable of playing that role to a high standard is Tettey which is why his absence has been so damaging to us. The fact he can do this role on his own if need be allows Fer and Howson (or conceivably Wes) freedom to roam with less worry about leaving the defence exposed. Thats not to say that Tettey can be left on his own at all times but he does provide a level of cover for the defence that none of our other midfielders do.

However, thats not to say that Fox cannot perform at prem level if alongside 2 of Johnson, Fer and Howson. He could still do an important job for us, it will just mean at least 1 of the other 2 having to be more disciplined and sit back more than when Tettey is about.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]The key with Fox in mhy view is the system you play and who you play him alongside.

He is an excellent passer and player who can dictate tempo but the one area he lacks is a bit of athleticism. he therefore probably cannot play the holding midfield role on his own in the premier league as he is too easily bypassed by direct running.

When fit, the only player we have who i believe is truly capable of playing that role to a high standard is Tettey which is why his absence has been so damaging to us. The fact he can do this role on his own if need be allows Fer and Howson (or conceivably Wes) freedom to roam with less worry about leaving the defence exposed. Thats not to say that Tettey can be left on his own at all times but he does provide a level of cover for the defence that none of our other midfielders do.

However, thats not to say that Fox cannot perform at prem level if alongside 2 of Johnson, Fer and Howson. He could still do an important job for us, it will just mean at least 1 of the other 2 having to be more disciplined and sit back more than when Tettey is about.[/quote]

Agree with this.  All our midfield players that are left over from the Lambert era, apart from Howson - Johnson, Hoolahan and Fox - have limitations.  If you put these three players together in one player you would have one heck of a player - Fox''s passing, Hoolahan''s trickery, Johnson''s fight.  That we have to play these  players at all shows us where we are in terms of squad strength.   Tettey and Fer were brought to be upgrades and Hoolahan, for all his trickery, doesn''t score.   As soon as he cut in on to his right foot against Manure you knew he wasn''t going to score - a shot straight at the goalkeeper with the whole goal to aim for.   Fox''s athleticism.  Johnson''s unreliable passing.  These players have to improve if they want more game time or to be first choice players.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]The key with Fox in mhy view is the system you play and who you play him alongside.

He is an excellent passer and player who can dictate tempo but the one area he lacks is a bit of athleticism. he therefore probably cannot play the holding midfield role on his own in the premier league as he is too easily bypassed by direct running.

When fit, the only player we have who i believe is truly capable of playing that role to a high standard is Tettey which is why his absence has been so damaging to us. The fact he can do this role on his own if need be allows Fer and Howson (or conceivably Wes) freedom to roam with less worry about leaving the defence exposed. Thats not to say that Tettey can be left on his own at all times but he does provide a level of cover for the defence that none of our other midfielders do.

However, thats not to say that Fox cannot perform at prem level if alongside 2 of Johnson, Fer and Howson. He could still do an important job for us, it will just mean at least 1 of the other 2 having to be more disciplined and sit back more than when Tettey is about.[/quote]

Agree with this.  All our midfield players that are left over from the Lambert era, apart from Howson - Johnson, Hoolahan and Fox - have limitations.  If you put these three players together in one player you would have one heck of a player - Fox''s passing, Hoolahan''s trickery, Johnson''s fight.  That we have to play these  players at all shows us where we are in terms of squad strength.   Tettey and Fer were brought to be upgrades and Hoolahan, for all his trickery, doesn''t score.   As soon as he cut in on to his right foot against Manure you knew he wasn''t going to score - a shot straight at the goalkeeper with the whole goal to aim for.   Fox''s athleticism.  Johnson''s unreliable passing.  These players have to improve if they want more game time or to be first choice players.

[/quote]

I agree re them being first choice. My point is really that i believe there is a role for Fox in the squad and that if we need to call on him he can potentially do a good job provided the team is set up right. I think he could have done a job for us v Fulham for example when we could have done with more composure and the ability to keep the ball in the second half.

[can u sit down please 0]

Him, I completely agree. Some games will suit him. Some won''t. He has a place in this sqd.

I''d just like to see those defending hughton admit that he''s been under used!

[KeelansGlove 0]

I can only presume those not convinced by Foxys performance didn''t see the game on Saturday.

I was truly amazed, I have to confess I haven''t been calling for him to be given a chance maybe I just forgot what he had to offer, indeed maybe Saturday was a one off but boy did he have a hell of a game.

He was MOM by such a huge amount I worry what game anyone who didn''t think so was watching.

The only player that comes close in terms of passing in our squad is Fer and Foxys performance actually gave me some hope about football in general.

His slide rule passes both long and short into the feet of Striker and wide players were a joy to behold an on another day surely would have had at least one assist.

Fulhams lineup was anything but poor, I''m honestly not sure if it was a one off but if he could play like that every game he would be the first name on my teamsheet.

We have really struggled to get good chances for any strikers since Hughton arrived maybe Foxy could be the answer, I am quite happy to go and see him play to find out.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]Him, I completely agree. Some games will suit him. Some won''t. He has a place in this sqd.

I''d just like to see those defending hughton admit that he''s been under used![/quote]

Why does defending Hughton have anything to do with it?   I agree he has been under used.  But I think it is nothing more than him being down the pecking order  and sometimes that is just the way it goes.  And to play him you have to leave someone out.  Fer? Howson?  Johnson??   He has had to bide his time and take his chance when he gets it.  But lets be honest, he hasn''t looked great when he has had a chance in the last two seasons in cup games - until this last one.   And why did he look so good on Saturday?  Because he has had a spell away on loan, played some games, got a fresh perspective - had an enforced rest through mumps - and lo and behold we have a fuly functioning Fox - who now surely has to be given a chance in the first team because of that performance  I hope he gets that chance.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Is Fox eligible to play in the Premier League? Is he in the 25 man squad?

[GJP 79]

I''d be interested to see him in midfield with Fer and Howson.

 

Three players who can all look after the ball and use it well.

[Juggy 0]

Morty, "He didn''t exactly set the league alight when he was on loan in the Championship, did he?"

Well according to a Barnsley fan that I know he was actually excellent for them and they had little or no hope of attracting him in the summer and could understand why Burnley (currently 2nd) were interested.

It has been confirmed that he was then sitting on the bench with mumps. I''m not sure if you have ever had mumps or know anybody that has, but it is a horrible condition and I''ve had it and could hardly move.

So unless they had a serious shortage of numbers - putting a player with mumps on the bench must suggest that they truly rated him. I wouldn''t want to be anywhere else but in my bed.

[Juggy 0]

"Is Fox eligible to play in the Premier League? Is he in the 25 man squad?"

It is January and we only have 22 senior players in the squad, so if we wanted him in the 25 it would be easy enough.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Le Juge"]Morty, "He didn''t exactly set the league alight when he was on loan in the Championship, did he?"

Well according to a Barnsley fan that I know he was actually excellent for them and they had little or no hope of attracting him in the summer and could understand why Burnley (currently 2nd) were interested.

It has been confirmed that he was then sitting on the bench with mumps. I''m not sure if you have ever had mumps or know anybody that has, but it is a horrible condition and I''ve had it and could hardly move.

So unless they had a serious shortage of numbers - putting a player with mumps on the bench must suggest that they truly rated him. I wouldn''t want to be anywhere else but in my bed.[/quote]I am basing it on the televised game against Ipswich, he was utterly anonymous.

[Juggy 0]

"I am basing it on the televised game against Ipswich, he was utterly anonymous"

I believe you, but it is one game. If we invert that situation then you could say that Van Wolfswinkel has been anonymous in half of the games he has played for us.

Doesn''t mean he doesn''t have the ability to succeed in the right team and right system given time. Can''t judge a player on one performance.

Besides, Leroy Fer has a bit of an issue with not getting into games or drifting in our out of them!

[morty 0]

[quote user="Le Juge"]"I am basing it on the televised game against Ipswich, he was utterly anonymous"

I believe you, but it is one game. If we invert that situation then you could say that Van Wolfswinkel has been anonymous in half of the games he has played for us.

Doesn''t mean he doesn''t have the ability to succeed in the right team and right system given time. Can''t judge a player on one performance.

Besides, Leroy Fer has a bit of an issue with not getting into games or drifting in our out of them![/quote]Obviously I didn''t judge Fox on that one performance.We''re going round in circles here.Lets just see how many Premiership games he gets between now and the end of the season.

[Juggy 0]

"Lets just see how many Premiership games he gets between now and the end of the season"

No point in waiting is there, we all know it will be a very small number if not none.

But I fail to see the relevance of that, seeing as we pro-Fox people are pointing out that we think he should have been used more than he has been under Hughton.

Hoolahan will get more PL games if he goes to Villa than he will at Norwich if he stays. What does that say exactly?

Just says that he will be playing for a manager with the desire and belief to use him.

[can u sit down please 0]

Hopefully he will get some games as there are certain things that he can do to benefit this team.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]Hopefully he will get some games as there are certain things that he can do to benefit this team.[/quote]

Whatever he has or hasn''t done since Hughton came to Norwich, Fox has answered in the best possible way - on the pitch.  This gives the manager another option and one that he - and we- should all be pleased about.   It doesn''t mean Fox will start the next match, but if Howson is still injured then he looks the obvious choice to come in and would plainly do a good job.

[can u sit down please 0]

We agree LDC :)

[nutty nigel 7,533]

But has he......

 

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/3043063/ShowPost.aspx

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

Love te avatar nige.

Tbh I think the hughton outers have did the same as the hughton outers after he had a bad game v Luton.

We all want a competitive and able squad. That at present, includes fox.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Is Fox the new Lappin? Bombed out by one manager. Outlived the manager. Became a lynchpin. Its possible. But highly unlikely

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]Love te avatar nige.

Tbh I think the hughton outers have did the same as the hughton outers after he had a bad game v Luton.

We all want a competitive and able squad. That at present, includes fox.[/quote]

 

Can''t argue with that although he was apparently part of a midfield who only passed to the wings. The negativity on here is frightening. The Hughton outers even disagree with eachother as they look for something else to wail about...

 

While you''re here CUSDP I remember a debate we had a couple months ago about playing Whittaker (you still owe me a pint BTW [B][;)] ) Now it seems the Hughton outers have completely changed targets and he''s at fault for playing Whittaker...

 

Where do you stand on this now?

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

I looked for that the other day and u think i provided you with the stats to back up the claim that he favoured cafu.

I''ve not been in the nelson for a while, maybe ill pop by soon!

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I know buddy. He has favoured them both at times. But my point is he is criticised whichever one he plays now. In the present climate every selection he makes is criticised.

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

Can''t disagree.

As anti as I am I''m trying to be as balanced as possible. I''ve had my angry days.

I just think when it gets to this stage there really isn''t any way back. Is there?

I am a big believer that fox should''ve played sooner. If we have better lined up then I understand the Wes decision.

In a period where we have struggled to create, he has overlooked two of the most technical players that we have.

It is a strange one.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

But it''s something you have no control over and it''s getting impossiible to discuss anything on here without it turning into more of the same. We bought Fer and Redmond to create for RVW. I don''t know how to work out how many minutes they''ve played together but I''d find it more interesting than being told how many minutes Wes has played in order to make yet another futile attack on the manager.