Fox

[The Great Wall Of Tettey 0]

I think fox is a championship player.

He gets noticed for his long sweeping range of passes which always attracts applause from the fans, but he can only produce such passes when he has enough space to take it down and do so. In the premier league you don''t get that time, and before anyone mentions it fulhams central midfield was made up of players I''ve never even heard of.

He contributes on the ball yes but goes missing when we haven''t. I watched him quite carefully and he seems to jog back in hope somebody will chase the player down and rarely fights/tackles for the ball.

He''s behind fer Howson Johnson tettey and might be useful as a squad player but still shouldn''t get a premier league run wuth those 4. Funny how when we played Luton he was described as being awful and not good enough now he''s being seen as the next great thing. Also, if lambert rated him as much as he made out why didn''t he ever make an approach for him?

[JF 694]

Hughton judged him as not good enough before he was given a chance. A player who had just been voted 3rd in player of the year. Great passer of the ball but that doesn''t seem to be high on Hughtons list of priorities.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Lincoln, Johnson, Howson, Fer and Tettey all make space.

It''s easy. Do you not watch football? Fox plays mostly in the area of the pitch were he won''t be man marked and won''t have three players charging him down immediately. Have you really not noticed how all the other midfielders find similar space?

Calling me dumb. You''re pathetic. And the two players you highlighted, when did those attacking midfielders become prolific ball winners against deep lying playmakers? Never is the answer....

Seriously Lincoln, seriously?[/quote]

Well it''s funny how BJ, Howson and Tettey make it look so difficult as opposed to the relaxed aprroach Fox brings. BJ in particular does not find space. Tettey holds a similar postion but doesn''t have the range of passing that fox does. Howson is a completely different type of player.

[morty 0]

[quote user="JF"]Hughton judged him as not good enough before he was given a chance. A player who had just been voted 3rd in player of the year. Great passer of the ball but that doesn''t seem to be high on Hughtons list of priorities.[/quote]

Fans vote the player of the year, and a lot of fans knowledge isnt maybe as good as they think it is.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Anyway I''m not advocating fox should be a starter, but when compared to the other options he is certainly not bad enough to never get a chance.

[Juggy 0]

"You''re saying players go up, I''m saying Fox isn''t from us"

He will go down if he leaves and down if he stays. We are a club in decline, the curve is pointing downwards.

"why aren''t there clubs after him?"

And how the hell do you know that there haven''t been? What the hell do you know about who has been in for him and what his plans are?

"Surely he, and his agent at the end of last season knew this would be the same, why hasn''t he moved?"

What the hell has it got to do with you? His agent, if he even has one, has a contract with David Fox not with you.

"To a PL side or top half championship team?"

What the hell has it got to do with you?

"Fox didn''t play last season"

Yes he did.

"he managed to get on the pitch about three times"

.7 times. Don''t worry you are only out by 133%.

"he was good enough in other clubs eyes, why didn''t he move?"

How the hell do you know what managers or clubs rate him and what the hell has it got to do with you as to why he hasn''t moved? He is here because Hughton gave him a two year deal, it hasn''t expired yet.

"I''m sure the club wouldn''t have been too opposed to an unused player moving"

Why did they reject Leeds'' offer for Becchio then?

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="morty"]It is laughable that some of you actually think you know better than someone who works for a living as a Premiership manager.[/quote]

Ok so adeybayor couldn''t get a game at spurs. Not even close to selection by AVB. So clearly not good enough for the premier league. Hang on.......

[can u sit down please 0]

You actually get more time on the ball in the prem than what you do in the champ.

As to we know more than a premier league manager? Maybe not but fans wanted Howson pushing forward, he did it and he performs.

The fans wanted Wes in at the start of last yr. he came on against lpool at home and stayed in our team helping us go on a run.

The supporters wanted a passing midfielder to play and today we saw that his distribution is better than any central player that we have.

Are you saying that our prem manager has never made a mistake?

[Juggy 0]

"It is laughable that some of you actually think you know better than someone who works for a living as a Premiership manager"

You seem to have created a parodox there. For both Paul Lambert and Chris Hughton are making a living as Premiership Managers, but appear to have differing ideas on what constitutes a player capable of playing in this league and what doesn''t.

Stupid argument. Premier League managers don''t even agree with each other. Your logic is twisted.

[lake district canary 4,531]

@Le Juge - your anti-Hughton bias shows nothing but a closed mind.  To you (and others) everything he does is wrong.   You are so set in your mindset that even if he starts to put Fox in the first team you will say that he will have been forced to do it because fans like you say so, therefore proving you right and him wrong and him having to give in.  

The simple truth with Fox and Becchio - is they do not fit the parameters of what Hughton wants.  We know Fox''s abilities but we know his limitations too.  Becchio too - not good enough for what Hughton wants.  

If they adapt, show Hughton they can do it in training and when they get a chance such as today - Fox took his by all accounts - then they may force Hughton into picking them.  That is what football is about.   Becchio was cover for RVW today, I presume - just in case he needed to come off for any reason.  Tough on Becchio, maybe, but that''s football - and they get handsomely paid for it too.

[can u sit down please 0]

David Fox is more of a premier league footballer than Bradley johnson.

Put fox in there with tettey/fer/Howson and he would be absolutely fine.

Every city player you speak to rates david fox. Like the man united players do Michael carrick. A players player who does the job that often doesn''t get appreciated.

If hughton inners can''t admit that he should''ve featured more than they are absolutely clueless.

I''m not saying he should play every game. But there are some teams you''ll play where he will be perfect. Probably more at home than away. Swansea/west ham/Fulham/palace/villa would''ve been ideal.

Whereas palace away etc prob wouldn''t have been.

Football is a squad game and CH has not utilised his squad very well.

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]@Le Juge - your anti-Hughton bias shows nothing but a closed mind.  To you (and others) everything he does is wrong.   You are so set in your mindset that even if he starts to put Fox in the first team you will say that he will have been forced to do it because fans like you say so, therefore proving you right and him wrong and him having to give in.  

The simple truth with Fox and Becchio - is they do not fit the parameters of what Hughton wants.  We know Fox''s abilities but we know his limitations too.  Becchio too - not good enough for what Hughton wants.  

If they adapt, show Hughton they can do it in training and when they get a chance such as today - Fox took his by all accounts - then they may force Hughton into picking them.  That is what football is about.   Becchio was cover for RVW today, I presume - just in case he needed to come off for any reason.  Tough on Becchio, maybe, but that''s football - and they get handsomely paid for it too.

[/quote]

Every single player we have has limitations. But the key thing is the man next to them.

[Juggy 0]

"To you (and others) everything he does is wrong"

You seem to claim to know so much about me, yet show in this one sentence that you know so little. There are 2400+ posts from me on this forum.... it won''t be difficult to find one which proves this sentence as wrong.

[NCFC198 2]

Fox played above average today, in a midfield where he was the only recognised central midfield player, in an average lacklustre cup game. He played against a fulham b team. Fox does the simple things well. A good passer short and sometimes long. He should no way have been frozen out and will now find it hard to get in the team for league games. He is not the answer to all our problems. But with our lack of midfield players he deserves a chance and could do a job

[Juggy 0]

"I''m not saying he should play every game"

I''m not saying this either. In fact Lambert used both Hoolahan and Fox as rotation players, yet both offered so much in our first season in this division.

Amazingly that season only finished 18 months or so ago, people have short memories.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="JF"]Hughton judged him as not good enough before he was given a chance. A player who had just been voted 3rd in player of the year.[/quote]LOL!  Would that be the same people who voted for Lee Croft? [:D]

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="NCFC198"]Fox played above average today, in a midfield where he was the only recognised central midfield player, in an average lacklustre cup game. He played against a fulham b team. Fox does the simple things well. A good passer short and sometimes long. He should no way have been frozen out and will now find it hard to get in the team for league games. He is not the answer to all our problems. But with our lack of midfield players he deserves a chance and could do a job[/quote]

Do you not recognise Dempsey/kasami/boateng?

You could argue that FOx is unknown such is his anonymity.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Le Juge"]"I''m not saying he should play every game"

I''m not saying this either. In fact Lambert used both Hoolahan and Fox as rotation players, yet both offered so much in our first season in this division.

Amazingly that season only finished 18 months or so ago, people have short memories.[/quote]

Lambert chopped and changed so much that none of us knew what he was doing sometimes.   I sometimes think that is the only reason we did well that season - that and Grant Holt.  

[Gingerpele 0]

Howson doesn''t make anything look difficult.

All the midfielders get just as much space, Fox just passes quicker. Well Howson passes pretty quickly too. Johnson and Tettey dwell on the ball longer, as does Fer. That''s the difference.

[killiecanary 0]

[quote user="Le Juge"]"how many goals did he set up for rvw today?"

Ehh?

I''m saying that Fox is a victim of playing for a manager who doesn''t attempt to play positive attacking football with the ball on the floor - AKA a passing game.

And that Van Wolfswinkel will suffer having signed for that same team. We have the wrong culture at this football club.

Thanks for the stupid question.[/quote]

Do you really think we don''t play the ball on the ground Le Juge? While I would agree that we aren''t always quick enough in attack, I certainly wouldn''t agree that we play play hoofball like some - we do seem to try to play possession football - in fact in my eyes we play too many passes and often don''t get the balll into the opposition box quickly enough for my liking.

I am a huge Fox fan and was delighted to see him play today, but although I thought he did well I disagreed with his MoM award - for me Snodgrass was our best player today and I thought he looked a better player in the centre than out wide.

Would like to see Fox come back into the frame a bit now though.

[can u sit down please 0]

You mean lambert utilised his squad keeping players in there toes and fit?

Well if grant holt kept us up LDC hughton shouldn''t have changed his game that much then

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]If he was that good, why aren''t there clubs after him?[/quote]Surely the same could then have been said about Hoolahan (not counting Villa''s enquiry this month) over the past 4-5 years?I don''t recall a single genuine enquiry or bid into his signature, yet half the forum think he''s a world class irreplaceable talent - so why has no other club made a good offer then???The truth is that things are nowhere near as clear cut as you''d like to make out GP, and Fox is yet another example of a player who has already shown he has the ability, but simply doesn''t fit in with the new managers plans. We''ve seen it happen with Adebayor, Demba Ba, even Kagawa has only got 8 games this season (along with the 20 games last season on the back of having a blinder the year before in the Bundesliga)...!It''s not always about talent or ability, but simply about how the manager wants to play and who he feels is most suited to doing that - in Fox''s case his passing game isn''t overly valued by Hughton compared to the physicality that players such as Tettey and Johnson offer, so off he goes onto the scrapheap...Considering how woeful the supply our strikers have been given over the past 2 seasons has been, it''s beyond laughable that Fox can''t get a game when he''s probably the best passer in the entire squad!

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]You actually get more time on the ball in the prem than what you do in the champ.

As to we know more than a premier league manager? Maybe not but fans wanted Howson pushing forward, he did it and he performs.

The fans wanted Wes in at the start of last yr. he came on against lpool at home and stayed in our team helping us go on a run.

The supporters wanted a passing midfielder to play and today we saw that his distribution is better than any central player that we have.

Are you saying that our prem manager has never made a mistake?[/quote]

Fox played well today, really well.

I''d have probably given Snodgrass Man of the match though, that''s just me.

Fox provides a different option, if we had a fully fit squad it would be an option that didn''t get used that regularly. He has is place, but, as others have pointed out, playing that way requires time and space and a reliance on others to create that for you. Other teams utilise this type of player, Liverpool with Joe Allen being one.

It should also be noted that Snodgrass and Garrido had decent games today in midfield, Josh Murphy showed pace, promise and product too.

Fox isn''t the answer that''s for sure. We won''t see fast, flowing, attacking football in a side that has him as the fulcrum. Not the answer but a handy option and certainly more value to is here than at Barnsley. Fully fit squad? He doesn''t get close to the starting XI for me, but playing today in what was, with all due respect, largely a reserve game, he did very well.

Will he start next week, we still have plenty of injuries?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]You mean lambert utilised his squad keeping players in there toes and fit?

Well if grant holt kept us up LDC hughton shouldn''t have changed his game that much then[/quote]

Every time you went to a match you had no idea what team was going out there.  It changed formation and tactics and personel so much we fans were often confused as to what was going on.   It was like try anything, if that doesn''t work throw an extra attacker on and see if you can scare the opposition into defeat.   It worked, sometimes, but it wasn''t ever going to be sustainable.   As for Grant Holt, his best days were behind him, even I can see that, as much as I would have liked him to stay.

[morty 0]

[quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="morty"]It is laughable that some of you actually think you know better than someone who works for a living as a Premiership manager.[/quote]

Ok so adeybayor couldn''t get a game at spurs. Not even close to selection by AVB. So clearly not good enough for the premier league. Hang on.......[/quote]

Or perhaps players give an extra few percent to impress a new manager?

How do you know how adeybayor was performing in training, or how close he was to selection?

Oh, thats right, you dont.

[JF 694]

LOL! Would that be the same people who voted for Lee Croft?

Nor really a fair comparison is it? Croft was the best of a really poor bunch, someone had to get it. Fox was in a far better team playing PL football that finished 12th.

[Juggy 0]

Lee Croft actually was the best player that season, in the worst Norwich team that any of have probably ever had to watch.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="morty"]It is laughable that some of you actually think you know better than someone who works for a living as a Premiership manager.[/quote]

Ok so adeybayor couldn''t get a game at spurs. Not even close to selection by AVB. So clearly not good enough for the premier league. Hang on.......[/quote]

Or perhaps players give an extra few percent to impress a new manager?

How do you know how adeybayor was performing in training, or how close he was to selection?

Oh, thats right, you dont.

[/quote]

And neither do you. He could have been bursting a gut in training. Managers get it wrong sometimes. Accept it.

[morty 0]

[:)][quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="morty"]It is laughable that some of you actually think you know better than someone who works for a living as a Premiership manager.[/quote]

Ok so adeybayor couldn''t get a game at spurs. Not even close to selection by AVB. So clearly not good enough for the premier league. Hang on.......[/quote]

Or perhaps players give an extra few percent to impress a new manager?

How do you know how adeybayor was performing in training, or how close he was to selection?

Oh, thats right, you dont.

[/quote]

And neither do you. He could have been bursting a gut in training. Managers get it wrong sometimes. Accept it.[/quote]

Not as often as idiot fans do.

Accept it.

[:)]

[Gingerpele 0]

Le Judge what a pathetic bunch of responses. What on earth is wrong with you?

Basically. Half your points equate to us not been bothering discuss football.

You seem to have completely missed the fact I actually rate Fox. And basically that''s the most pathetic Internet response I''ve ever seen. Well done, you win.