Fox

[the bristol nest 0]

Really pleased for Fox today. He got to show his ability which you can''t do when you are not picked.

This is different to the Becchio cock up. Fox was one of our top performers in our first year back in the Prem.

He put in a good shift for our team and showed what we are missing at times. If he moves on then good luck to him as he has been a major player for us at times. If he stays then brilliant as I like to watch him pass the ball around with craft and imagination. We have other midfielders who can do a different job but that does not mean that Fox is not a quality player.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]Citizen Journalist Foghorn wrote the following post at 05/01/2014 10:45 AM:

"Compare that to BJ and Howson who dally on the ball before passing it, or Tettey who solely keeps possession with a 5 yard sideways pass."

Not sure that BJ and Howson dally on the ball it''s just their vision and range of passing is not as good as that of Fox. Tettey, deployed as a DM and feeding the CMs or FBs is our best use of him.

We could get away with playing two central midfielders if they had the best attributes of LF, AT, JH, BJ and DF combined but then we would have two £15m players on our hands. Fer is the closest we can get to the all rounder CM at the moment but he still has to develop. It''s not a Jack of all trades needed in the Premiership but a Master of all trades.[/quote]BJ and Howson receive the ball look up and decide where to pass it.  Fox receives the ball and passes it, and as you say, with a much greater range and vision than BJ or Howson.  The downside is he is nowhere near as good defensively.I agree about Tettey when he plays that role, wins the ball, passes it to a more talented player to use.  Perhaps a problem with Johnson is he is like an excitable dog, scampering everywhere. But you don''t really want a limited player like Johnson everywhere.  We do miss some of Johnson''s other attributes when he doesn''t play, like his heading ability.I''m not sure I understand your point.  I am not saying he would be a member of the First XI when everyone is fit, just that he is a very useful squad member, and certainly useful when we play a 5 man midfield.  If we had a ''Master of all Trades'' I can assure you he would be out the door within 12 months for a hefty fee.

[can u sit down please 0]

Agree with you both.

I''m one of Fox''s biggest fans but I''m not championing him to start ever game.

For example, palace away wouldn''t have suited him. Sunderland away would have.

It would all depend in the formation and who is next to him.

But for me he is 100% dependable at retaining ball. That''s something we don''t do well.

Just think its crazy how he has been overlooked, when he has the obvious talent.

Maybe it''s. midfield thing for hughton as he struggled to get Howson performing for 18 months, when the "clueless" supporters knew hes better box to box rather than holding.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

I once heard someone say that the best midfielders know where they''re going to pass the ball before they recieve it.

That sums up Foxy for me.Fox in!

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

Fox''s passing abilities have always been there but the defensive side of his game has let him down in the past. Last night he was much better in that regard and if he can keep that up, he does have a future either here or elsewhere.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Jimbo_Canary"]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Its also time for Fox, Bechio and Hoots to move on.[/quote]

 

Add Hughton to that list Mr Nexus.

[/quote]Nah I dont respect him enough to spell his name right so its Hoots / Hoootan or Hugton

[Herman 9,717]

Shouldn''t it be Focks then Nexus?

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Nah I dont have anything against Fox. Hes not destroying my football club. I can just acknowledge that hes over rated by fans and not rated by managers.

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]Fox''s passing abilities have always been there but the defensive side of his game has let him down in the past. Last night he was much better in that regard and if he can keep that up, he does have a future either here or elsewhere.[/quote]

That''s why pairing him up with a defensive type player like tettey would work.

The same as tettey and johnson need a creator with them

[Joanna Grey 0]

Ideally we would have Tettey and BJ sitting behind Fer and Howson with Fox in the middle. Unfortunately we can only have 11 players on the pitch at one time.

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]"whoareyou?" - not sure how he was MOM today to be honest. He was neat and tidy but no match winner.Last time I looked we didn''t have a match winner so he must have been the best non match winner[/quote]Don''t think he was that either.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]Fox''s passing abilities have always been there but the defensive side of his game has let him down in the past. Last night he was much better in that regard and if he can keep that up, he does have a future either here or elsewhere.[/quote]

That''s why pairing him up with a defensive type player like tettey would work.

The same as tettey and johnson need a creator with them[/quote]

But Fox isn''t really a creator, yes he''s capable of the old defence splitting pass. But they are few and far between, about as common as a Howson scorcher really.

Fox is the player who feeds the creative player, so the problem is playing Tettey to allow Fpx to do his thing isn''t overly efficient. Because then you have two in the middle who are only giving the ball to someone else to create. Most teams will have one or the other, it''s why Tettey with Howson and Fer work, because those two are much more all round players.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"] Fox is the player who feeds the creative player, so the problem is playing Tettey to allow Fox to do his thing isn''t overly efficient. Because then you have two in the middle who are only giving the ball to someone else to create. Most teams will have one or the other, it''s why Tettey with Howson and Fer work, because those two are much more all round players.[/quote]That''s just not true.  Fox sets the play in motion, with a quickly played ball out to the wing, or up to Hoolahan or a striker. A ball over the defence for the winger to run onto.  Switching play quickly from one side to the other.  Tettey just passes it to  another deep sitting midfield player.Howson is excellent bringing the ball forward and taking pot shots, but his passing is generally slow and predictable. Fer is a very good all round player on his day.Even in his few games for a dismal Barnsley side, he has done well, with 1.7 Key Passes a game, and 45 of 59 long balls finding their target (6.4 per game).Compare that to Howson''s 0.7 Key passes, or even Fer''s 1 Key pass per game.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

I guess all the pros that play with him are wrong too. Cleary everyone enjoyed seeing him back in the side.

[Yellow Wal 314]

So Lincoln your midfield now consists of Fox and Hoolahan. Who else would you play with them to get the best out of them.

[hogesar 9,618]

Managers leave out good players. Be that for personal reasons, because they don''t fit with a style or because they''re not fantastic trainers. That''s a fact and those factors allowed us to buy players like Fox, and Holt, and R. Martin who wasn''t deemed as good enough in the championship by Peterborough at the time.

Generally speaking, i don''t think Hughton has made too many of these mistakes. It''s clear that Hughton outers are using this is as evidence he''s not up to the job whereas the inner''s are just point blank refusing to admit any mistake has been made. It''s quite comical on both sides, but i think CUSDP has given a very fair overview.

Fox isn''t so bad that he should have barely appeared for us since Hughton took over. That comes from ex-pro''s such as Darren Eadie and also members of our own playing staff, many of whom were ready to tweet their congratulations and praise towards him as soon as the game was up.

He also isn''t so good that he''s a must have in every game we play. But there''s been so many games particularly against lower half teams where I think our ball retention has been really poor - yet it''s a style of play which Hughton seems to promote! Or at least i assume he does as we certainly don''t rush the ball as quick as possible to the striker(s), and seem content to pass it around midfield. 

So i don''t think he''s left out due to our playing style. His physicality? Maybe. But it didn''t harm us when he played in League One, Championship or Premiership under Lambert.

The idea that he needs all this time is for one, not true, and what''s also not true is that you don''t get that time in the Premier League. In my view, at home, our more holding midfielder has had time on the ball but not that ability to spray a pass out to the wings or over the fullbacks. With us now focussing our attacking intent on the wings, i think Fox could be a really useful addition.

So yes, this goes as a mistake by Hughton. He''s managing in the premier league but he has and will make mistakes. This is one of the bigger one''s, in my book.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"] Even in his few games for a dismal Barnsley side, he has done well, with 1.7 Key Passes a game, and 45 of 59 long balls finding their target (6.4 per game).Compare that to Howson''s 0.7 Key passes, or even Fer''s 1 Key pass per game.[/quote]

I dislike the key-pass statistic. Whilst I like what it tries to do (i.e. indicate creativity and attacking production), I think it''s poorly defined. A key pass is defined as ''the final pass that leads to a shot at goal from a teammate''. That means that if you pass to, say, you''re central midfield partner and he attempts to shoot from the half-way line then you have a ''key pass''. They should really divide the statistic into different categories like ''key pass to shot on target'' and show the range from of the shot the key pass creates. 

Whilst I think you''re a little harsh about Howson''s overall passing ability, I completely agree with you regarding Fox''s speed. He has, using NFL terminology, an incredible ''release time''.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

As far as I can see, no one has yet considered that Lambert bought Howson in January 2012. He was injured but when he was gut Lambert played him.....

In place of a Fox.

Even Lambert who clearly valued and rated Fox thought Howson was the better player.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

"He is an unbelievable player, everyone in the dressing room was calling him Pirlo."

Direct quote from Ryan Bennett according to Archant. He clearly seems to think he is up to the standard

[can u sit down please 0]

Great quote.

Will player power get foxy another game? ;)

[morty 0]

Pirlo, my ar$e.[:D]

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"]Pirlo, my ar$e.[:D][/quote]

Hahaha a comical exaggeration. Still though who are people on here to say that one of his peers, and fellow team mates, who sees him train day in and out don''t know what they are talking about. I don''t remember Becchio getting this kind of backing? In our current predicament with central midfield, we either need to ship out before we bring in someone else, or save some dough and pick the times when Foxy is given a chance.

I''d like to see him given a chance in the right situation to see what he can do. Lord knows that there shouldn''t be any player in the current squad hungrier to give it their all if given the chance. Maybe Everton is a big ask, but I think Hull at home would be as good a chance as any for him to stake his claim. 

[The Great Wall Of Tettey 0]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]"He is an unbelievable player, everyone in the dressing room was calling him Pirlo."

Direct quote from Ryan Bennett according to Archant. He clearly seems to think he is up to the standard[/quote]

He also said ''if you give him the ball''. Problem is he isn''t a ball winner and we don''t keep the ball well enough to give him a large share of possession. Fer and Howson every time for me

[morty 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"]Pirlo, my ar$e.[:D][/quote]

Hahaha a comical exaggeration. Still though who are people on here to say that one of his peers, and fellow team mates, who sees him train day in and out don''t know what they are talking about. I don''t remember Becchio getting this kind of backing? In our current predicament with central midfield, we either need to ship out before we bring in someone else, or save some dough and pick the times when Foxy is given a chance.

I''d like to see him given a chance in the right situation to see what he can do. Lord knows that there shouldn''t be any player in the current squad hungrier to give it their all if given the chance. Maybe Everton is a big ask, but I think Hull at home would be as good a chance as any for him to stake his claim. 

[/quote]Do not fall into the idiot trap, that a player who isn''t getting a game is immediately the answer to our problems.Fox has had one decent game, at basically reserve level. I would bet one of my testicles that you won''t see him again this season.I would love to be proved wrong, I really would, but I doubt I will be.Of course his mates are going to big him up and praise him when he has a good game, which he did, but the fact remains, he isn''t quite good enough to hold down a regular place in a Premiership team, or a Championship one for that matter.

[Juggy 0]

"or a Championship one for that matter"

Sorry but that''s a ridiculous statement.

He would have to be used selectively in this league, sure (and Lambert did rotate him), but he is clearly good enough to play week in week out for any team in the league below.

"I would bet one of my testicles that you won''t see him again this season"

Are you really willing to stake one of your testicles on David Fox not playing in the replay at Craven Cottage? Sounds like quite a lot to put on the line!

[morty 0]

[quote user="Le Juge"]"or a Championship one for that matter"

Sorry but that''s a ridiculous statement.

He would have to be used selectively in this league, sure (and Lambert did rotate him), but he is clearly good enough to play week in week out for any team in the league below.

"I would bet one of my testicles that you won''t see him again this season"

Are you really willing to stake one of your testicles on David Fox not playing in the replay at Craven Cottage? Sounds like quite a lot to put on the line![/quote]Okay maybe not actual testicles, but you get my point.He didn''t exactly set the league alight when he was on loan in the Championship, did he?Selectively? Why? If he is the God of passing that some people are bigging him up as, surely he should start every week?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

The Pirlo thing unfortunately rather makes you laugh off the point, as it is a gross exaggeration. BUT, I think there is some significance in Bennetts use of the word ''unbelievable''. He could have said quality, or good, or any other superlative. But he chose unbelievable. Doesnt really sound like the way a premier leauge player woud describe someone who he thought isnt even good enough for the championship

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"]Pirlo, my ar$e.[:D][/quote]

Hahaha a comical exaggeration. Still though who are people on here to say that one of his peers, and fellow team mates, who sees him train day in and out don''t know what they are talking about. I don''t remember Becchio getting this kind of backing? In our current predicament with central midfield, we either need to ship out before we bring in someone else, or save some dough and pick the times when Foxy is given a chance.

I''d like to see him given a chance in the right situation to see what he can do. Lord knows that there shouldn''t be any player in the current squad hungrier to give it their all if given the chance. Maybe Everton is a big ask, but I think Hull at home would be as good a chance as any for him to stake his claim. 

[/quote]Do not fall into the idiot trap, that a player who isn''t getting a game is immediately the answer to our problems.Fox has had one decent game, at basically reserve level. I would bet one of my testicles that you won''t see him again this season.I would love to be proved wrong, I really would, but I doubt I will be.Of course his mates are going to big him up and praise him when he has a good game, which he did, but the fact remains, he isn''t quite good enough to hold down a regular place in a Premiership team, or a Championship one for that matter.[/quote]

Not at all Morty. I''m not being naive about this, all I''m saying is the same that has been said on here time and again, that the coaching staff and the players are the only ones who see each other in training. He may move on soon, but right now he is a free alternative while others are coming back from injury. I''d like to see what he is capable of against a team like Hull after such a long period out. Hopefully he is bursting to prove his worth, which is only good for us. If he is pants, then at least his absence from the line up will be more than justified and the fans that want to see what he can do, will know.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"]Pirlo, my ar$e.[:D][/quote]

Hahaha a comical exaggeration. Still though who are people on here to say that one of his peers, and fellow team mates, who sees him train day in and out don''t know what they are talking about. I don''t remember Becchio getting this kind of backing? In our current predicament with central midfield, we either need to ship out before we bring in someone else, or save some dough and pick the times when Foxy is given a chance.

I''d like to see him given a chance in the right situation to see what he can do. Lord knows that there shouldn''t be any player in the current squad hungrier to give it their all if given the chance. Maybe Everton is a big ask, but I think Hull at home would be as good a chance as any for him to stake his claim. 

[/quote]Do not fall into the idiot trap, that a player who isn''t getting a game is immediately the answer to our problems.Fox has had one decent game, at basically reserve level. I would bet one of my testicles that you won''t see him again this season.I would love to be proved wrong, I really would, but I doubt I will be.Of course his mates are going to big him up and praise him when he has a good game, which he did, but the fact remains, he isn''t quite good enough to hold down a regular place in a Premiership team, or a Championship one for that matter.[/quote]

Not at all Morty. I''m not being naive about this, all I''m saying is the same that has been said on here time and again, that the coaching staff and the players are the only ones who see each other in training. He may move on soon, but right now he is a free alternative while others are coming back from injury. I''d like to see what he is capable of against a team like Hull after such a long period out. Hopefully he is bursting to prove his worth, which is only good for us. If he is pants, then at least his absence from the line up will be more than justified and the fans that want to see what he can do, will know.

[/quote]Agree[Y]I just think a lot of fans opinions regarding Fox have been way over the top, and the endless conspiracy theories as to why he hasn''t been getting a game have all been a bit silly.Its been almost Codyesque.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Did you SEE Cody''s overhead kick last week?  ;)