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SeattleCanary

The injured 4...

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I posted this is another thread but wanted to see what peoples views on the injured players importance to the team are, and if they really would have made a huge difference in ours and the managers current situation.
For me if people suggest Bennett is missed I wonder how? Other than a super sub, or impact player he''s hardly first choice over Snodgrass after Snoddy''s season last season. If Snodgrass had been the one injured in the first game instead we''d have never seen what a let down he has been this season, and everyone would have said we''d missed him instead I''m sure. Elliot has never really been first choice, so to say we miss him, is like saying we miss Surman.
Pilks has always been too injury prone to ever really have a prolonged string of games in which to be so crucial to the first team. He was always described as one who faded in and out of games, and that was when he wasn''t injured. He''s a great player, but hasn''t contributed a whole season to our cause.
Tettey only really started to show what he could do before his injury this season, and as for the rest of the time he is Pilks mark II. These are bit part season players who should never be counted on to play more than half to 2 thirds of a season.
So that leaves Howson. Does one player really make the difference between a whole team performing good or bad? Does he have that much power over the performance the other players?
I just find it curious that these 4 missing is suddenly the answer to why our whole squad has been so poor. Never mind the fact Ruddy, Bass, Snoddy are nothing like last season. And thus far Fer, RVW and Redmond have really dipped off from their early season promise.

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I doubt it would make much difference but it provides excuses. We lined up with 2 strikers but kept the midfield pinned back today. None of that makes any sense at all.

Congrats on the Seahawks win, assuming you''re a fan.

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I doubt it would make much difference but it provides excuses. We lined up with 2 strikers but kept the midfield pinned back today. None of that makes any sense at all.

Congrats on the Seahawks win, assuming you''re a fan.[/quote]
Yeah I saw they won. Great for the area! I''m not really into American Football if I''m honest. Too many stoppages and advertising interruptions for me. 

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They aren''t the answer, but to dismiss totally, that it isn''t an issue, is daft.I don''t think Snodgrass has been great this season, would he be better if EB was pushing him for his place? Quite possibly.Would our single striker look less isolated if Pilkington was breaking into the box, like he does so well? I don''t think thats unreasonable.Would we have looked better yesterday with Howson in the team? Yes, I think we would.Is Tettey a better player (when fit) that Bradley Johnson? Yup.Players play a lot better knowing that if they don''t perform, there is someone waiting to take their place. And it gives the manager different options too. Would a 5 man midfield with two Dm''s and Pilkington left scraped us a point yesterday? Well'' we''ll never know.But again, to just say having these players missing isn''t an issue, and "all sides have injuries" is just blinkered.

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We are missing all 4 players as it just gives Hughton another option instead of having to rely on players who are out of form.

The 2 main players we are missing badly and it shows are Howson and Pilks. Tettey and Bennett are ok squad players who would give Hughton that other option if he wanted to go with something else (unlikely though).

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Tettey is the most important if not the most skillful.

It is no coincidence that our ten match run last season and our best performances this have been when he was playing. He fills that vital DM role that releases Howson and Fer to press and his passing suits the wingers.

Bennett is a speedy right footed right winger. It is easy to dismiss him as an impact player but we''ve missed that especially when chasing games. Football is now a 14 man game and Bennett brings something very different to anyone else.

Pilksis Pilks and when on form is a quality player.

Howson. Nuff said!

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I think the main benefit that having them back fit would be the flexibility which they offer. At the moment, with Howson and Tettey out, our central midfield is pretty much picking itself, and there''s not much we can do about it. Tettey nor Howson would have gained us x more points individually, but the trio of Tettey, Howson and Fer was working very well - sometimes players work much better when they''re playing with some players than they do with others; that trio seemed to work.

We can''t play that same formation well when these two are out, and so I think that certainly has to be taken into account.

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I agree that Howson/Fer/Tettey has been our best midfield combination so far this season but would also add that Johnson has played well in the last few games. He is one of the minority who appears to be up for the fight.

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Howson is a class above BJ, so in a 442 his presence does make a difference.

Tettey has made the team better whenever he has a run, injury problems are an issue, but yes he is missed.

Pilkington is a unique player, one of the few NOT to get better by being out of the side, yet very influential, his adds quality of delivery into the box with defensive security and some pace. Vastly under appreciated, we are better with him in the side, his appearances over the last two seasons suggest he does not have an injury problem. He is missed and better than those in the team (mainly snodgrass)

Finally bennett, not as key as the three above, yet he has given us options from the bench, which we have not had this season becuase of the number of injuries.

We have 4 players who add options and strength to the team, they have all been missed to a greater or lesser degree, 3 of them are probable starters, its a valid excuse in a squad of just 22 players.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Football is now a 14 man game and Bennett brings something very different to anyone else.[/quote]Wasn''t Bennett the 5 minute sub man last season...  and played out of position on the left really badly.I remember him getting a couple of starts on the right towards the end of the season, putting in an impressive performance then being dropped for the next game.I think he played about as much last season as Wes is being played this season.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Football is now a 14 man game and Bennett brings something very different to anyone else.[/quote]Wasn''t Bennett the 5 minute sub man last season...  and played out of position on the left really badly.I remember him getting a couple of starts on the right towards the end of the season, putting in an impressive performance then being dropped for the next game.I think he played about as much last season as Wes is being played this season.

[/quote]

I agree Foggy. I think we underused Bennett last season. He does give us a number of things especially getting to the byline at pace followed with a right footed cross

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Football is now a 14 man game and Bennett brings something very different to anyone else.[/quote]Wasn''t Bennett the 5 minute sub man last season...  and played out of position on the left really badly.I remember him getting a couple of starts on the right towards the end of the season, putting in an impressive performance then being dropped for the next game.I think he played about as much last season as Wes is being played this season.

[/quote]

 

I like Bennett. I particularly like his attitude when playing or on the bench. But I''m just wondering how good we can actually be with Fox, Hoolahan, Becchio and Bennett all starting...

 

 

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89% pass rate for Tettey is quite poor considering he doesn''t pass any longer than 5 yards. I can''t believe how over rated Tettey is by some people on here. How people can say he is the most important player missing through injury is beyond me when we have Howson and Pilks out!

Yes we looked solid when we played 4-1-4-1 against Stoke when Tettey played in the DM position but I don''t believe it was because of personnel, it was the system that worked.

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" Yes we looked solid when we played 4-1-4-1 against Stoke when Tettey played in the DM position but I don''t believe it was because of personnel, it was the system that worked "

Given it worked in that game, would you suggest we use it again, and if so which players would you pick in the 1 - 4 - 1 spots?

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[quote user="hazza9"]89% pass rate for Tettey is quite poor considering he doesn''t pass any longer than 5 yards. I can''t believe how over rated Tettey is by some people on here. How people can say he is the most important player missing through injury is beyond me when we have Howson and Pilks out!

Yes we looked solid when we played 4-1-4-1 against Stoke when Tettey played in the DM position but I don''t believe it was because of personnel, it was the system that worked.[/quote]
And not to bash ourselves too much by saying this, but Stoke were barely at the races that game. They were our most comfortable victory this season IMO. Not because we outplayed them, so much as they just didn''t seem too bothered.
Agree with what a lot of people are saying, I just wondered if these players would have made a difference is available to the manager. We all know they can play well, and add something to the squad. But basically, it seems a huge defence of CH not being fired so far for his results, is due to the inability to pick from a fully fit squad. All I was wondering is if he had all our players fit, would he be able to construct a team capable of picking up more points than we have?
I don''t think it''s purely down to being restricted. I believe he doesn''t get enough out of the players, and still feel he doesn''t know his best 11 and wouldn''t know how to effectively use the squad. 

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1-4-1 does play to our strengths and if fit would go with

 

                 Tettey

Redmond  Fer  Guitierrez Pilks

                RvW

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

1-4-1 does play to our strengths and if fit would go with

 

                 Tettey

Redmond  Fer  Guitierrez Pilks

                RvW

[/quote]

Howson is going to play when he''s fit.

 

Far too good not to be in the team.

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The injured 4 is actually a 5 as Turner is also unavailable and will probably be that way for another month. He has been the best defender at the club this season and is a huge miss - I think two Bennett mistakes lead to both Everton''s goals.

 

Tettey and Howson have been big losses also, not just because they are fine players but also because there is no one else like them in the squad.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The injured 4 is actually a 5 as Turner is also unavailable and will probably be that way for another month. He has been the best defender at the club this season and is a huge miss - I think two Bennett mistakes lead to both Everton''s goals.

[/quote]

Yup. Bennett missed a header and was weak in the battle with Lukaku in the build up to the first goal. And then could have come out sooner to close Barry down (though Fer didn''t cover himself in glory there either).

 

Then gave away the foul in a dangerous area for the second.

 

And yet people think Bennett should be in the team anyway.

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Yep I agree with everything you just said SC. Hughton definitely doesn''t know his best formation or team.

I would probably go with away from home when all players fit;

4-1-4-1

GK. Ruddy

DL. Olsson

DC. Bassong

DC. Turner

DR. Martin

DM. Bradders

CM. Howson

CM. Fer

RAM. Snoddy

LAM. Pilks

ST. RVW

That''s 3 players out currently injured and 1 who has been out for majority of season.

At home, 4-4-2 d

GK. Ruddy

DL. Olsson

DC. Bassong

DC. Turner

DR. Martin

DM. Fer

LCM. Howson

RCM. Snoddy

AM. Hoolahan

ST. Hooper

ST. RVW

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I agree howson is clearly a very live option in there GJP;    however I dont think there is a player in the squad who is certain of their place,  all of them, incl Howson,  have been too inconsistent to warrant that - its why we have no clear pots candidate.   My 1-4-1 is simply my personal preference.

 

The only name on the team sheet is Ruddy,  and thats as much to do with the back up in Bunn not being in the same class.

 

  

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Fer has been inconsistent. Tettey has been good in his limited appearances. Johnson has been what you''d expect.

 

Howson has been the best. By a distance.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The injured 4 is actually a 5 as Turner is also unavailable and will probably be that way for another month. He has been the best defender at the club this season and is a huge miss - I think two Bennett mistakes lead to both Everton''s goals.

 

Tettey and Howson have been big losses also, not just because they are fine players but also because there is no one else like them in the squad.

[/quote]
That''s true Bethnal. But Turner was playing in "those games" that we should have been taking more points from, and has only just got injured. People were pointing to the longer term absentees, and pointing to them as to why we haven''t been able to mix things up for weeks. Thats why I said 4. 

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[quote user="hazza9"]89% pass rate for Tettey is quite poor considering he doesn''t pass any longer than 5 yards. I can''t believe how over rated Tettey is by some people on here.[/quote]I can''t believe that we''ve still got fans like you who are totally unable to grasp how good Tettey is and exactly what he does for us.As for his passing being poor, it puts him in the top 10 of all out defensive midfields only just behind the likes of Flamini, Javi Garcia, Lucas and Mikel (and the Swansea trio)...It''s also better than other notable DM''s such as Tiote, N''Zonzi, Whelan, Schneiderlin, Scott Parker, Carrick, Fernandinho, Anita, Sidwell, Capoue, Wilshere, Noble and not to mention 11 million pound Gary Medel at Cardiff...But I guess you think they''re all rubbish as well....

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Indy_Bones your talking out of your a*s... How highly do you rate him then??!!

You obviously don''t know much about football if you don''t think Berbatov is lazy!! It''s ridiculous how lazy he is but he makes up for that by having such a perfect first touch and makes everything looks so easily.

As for Tettey playing in that DM position you should have great tackling, distribution, strength and can read the game well. Bradley Johnson is better at must of them attributes. Tettey is not going to take us to next level, squad player at best.

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I think they are all key players.

Pilkington is probably our best winger in terms of turn of pace, creating chances, linking up with the strikers and forward play along with covering.

Just looking at what he gave the side in the Chelsea game earlier in the season and it is hard to see another winger getting up there to be with RVW for the goal. Pilkington appears to have really good anticipation and reads play very well.

Snodgrass, doesn''t have his pace and Redmond doesn''t yet posses his calmness in front of goal or when preparing to cross the ball.

As others have said, not sure about how much E.Bennett would give us but then saying that he has been awarded with a new deal so something must be seen in him. He''s also a good character to have about. I suppose when you look at it, Bennett is more of a traditional winger and has pace. In some ways Pilks and Redmond on the left is balanced by Snodgrass and Bennett on the right.

I''ve said elsewhere that the problem with Howson and Tettey is that they are both out at the same time. If it was just Tettey, Johnson can deputise in that defensive role well. But Tettey and Howson has forced Johnson to returning into a more orthodox midfield role which he has done well at but clearly isn''t as good as Howson. It also means that Fer is forced to be a lot more box to box.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]When is Tettey back?[/quote]
I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Pilks and Tettey resumed training today. Not sure when Howson will be back, but hopefully it is in the next week or two.

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