BJ, Howson and Hooly...

[SeattleCanary 0]

I was going to post this in the "Jonno misses the wall on soccer am" thread but thought it made more sense to start a new subject.

I think its funny how things change, and opinions change. I remember 2 seasons ago everyone was going crazy over how good Johnson is/was, and there was suggestion, ironically much like with Howson now, that he was on the verge of the England squad or should be. There was a thread/petition on here about it if I recall correctly? Even a pinkun article written around the same time talking up Holt''s chances.

I think it''s funny because few seem to rate him now, and want him away from the first team. Same as only a month a go no one wanted Howson in the first team and now apparently he should be called up to the England squad.

Hoolahan is another one that seems to go up and down the popularity chain. Why do we change our minds on players so much? If they were out of form I could understand it, but theres such a vast gulf between opinions of players on this board. How is it people see such different things?

I understand club progression, but this thread is some much about that but more how a player could be deemed "not first team material" and then suddenly should be considered, (or not anymore) international quality.

[im spartacus canary 0]

It was only the last close season that swansealona were supposed to be after bradders , how preposterous would that be ? a bloke who can''t pass a question on mastermind let alone a football playing for swansealona  [:D]

[Gingerpele 0]

I don''t remember people going crazy over Johnson...

And if he was linked to Swansea would have been fine replacing Joe Allen as the 10 yard passer. Most people seem to ignore the fact Johnson''s short range passing is fine.

[SeattleCanary 0]

well here''s a BBC article at the time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15307552

can''t find the thread that was on here, but you get the point.

[Jacko 0]

I would dispute that Gingerpele. Johnson has a pass completion of around 75%. So in effect 1 out of 4 passes he attempts surrenders possession to the opposition. The majority of those passes won''t be Hollywood style 30 yard balls or attempted through balls. Johnson has some very obvious limitations but there is no doubt he is still a very useful player to have in the squad. Otherwise both Lambert and Hughton wouldn''t have played him 74 times between them in the last couple of seasons. I did however feel that for Norwich to progress he did need to lose his place as front line midfielder.  

[mrs miggins 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I don''t remember people going crazy over Johnson...

And if he was linked to Swansea would have been fine replacing Joe Allen as the 10 yard passer. Most people seem to ignore the fact Johnson''s short range passing is fine.[/quote]

and you continue to ignore the fact that it isn''t.

I think as we continue to progress as a team and buy better players, the weaknesses in BJ''s game stands out more. Johnson was fine for our first season in the prem and is a good squad player to have

[GJP 79]

Well I have spent months and months telling people what a good player Howson is and what a big player he will be for us. And for anyone who still hasn''t realised it - he''s been our best player this season.

 

Similarly I''ve said for a long time that if we want to progress Johnson isn''t a good enough player to be a first choice in midfield (though he is a decent player to have in the squad).

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="mrs miggins"][quote user="Gingerpele"]I don''t remember people going crazy over Johnson...

And if he was linked to Swansea would have been fine replacing Joe Allen as the 10 yard passer. Most people seem to ignore the fact Johnson''s short range passing is fine.[/quote]

and you continue to ignore the fact that it isn''t.

I think as we continue to progress as a team and buy better players, the weaknesses in BJ''s game stands out more. Johnson was fine for our first season in the prem and is a good squad player to have[/quote]

I am not ignoring anything. I watch Johnson closely and look at the stats.

I have never said he''s not replaceable, I haven''t said this season he should be starting once he was dropped. And he was even better in his second season, in fact he was our third best player according too the fans that voted in POTS.

[crabbycanary 2]

All 3 are different sorts of players and offer different things, in differing systems, under different Managers. 2 years can be a long time in Prem terms.

You don''t rate Fer, but he is an upgrade on what we had 2 years ago. It is natural progression.

Howson has matured, BJ has been ousted by an upgrade (but is still a good player imo) and Wes is a ''victim'' of a different system.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Crabby makes 3 very good points, all things must move on, if things didnt change ,some would say we''re stagnating.

[BOO 0]

mrs miggins wrote the following post

I think as we continue to progress as a team and buy better players, the weaknesses in BJ''s game stands out more. Johnson was fine for our first season in the prem and is a good squad player to have

Can''t disagree with that!

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Yep, its all about progress, Fer, apart from a couple of mistakes, has been immense and Tettey is starting to show why he was brought in. Howson has stepped up, but maybe BJ and Wes have reached the limit of their abilities, that said, i wouldnt be in a hurry for them to leave, not until we have superior replacements settled in.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]All 3 are different sorts of players and offer different things, in differing systems, under different Managers. 2 years can be a long time in Prem terms.

You don''t rate Fer, but he is an upgrade on what we had 2 years ago. It is natural progression.

Howson has matured, BJ has been ousted by an upgrade (but is still a good player imo) and Wes is a ''victim'' of a different system.[/quote]

Agreed Crabby. I think the point I was trying to make, although hard to put across, is that if Johnson was supposedly in with a chance of the England squad only 2 seasons ago, then how is he not good enough for our first team now. More specifically, did he lose form? Have parts of his game gotten worse? Because it doesn''t matter if we progress as a club, and replace players. That''s natural. But if he really is/was England quality 2 years ago, what has happened since then that now deems him only a squad player?

I just find it interesting, as many seem to think his game has always been limited, but if he were as limited as we suggest, would he really have even been mentioned in the same breadth as a potential international?

[HampsteadCanary 0]

Johnson is a hard worker, and needs to be at the top of his game to look good, otherwise the rest of his game tends to go unnoticed, such as hassling the opposition, breaking up play. Its not a glorious role but a necessary one. The problem is Alex Tettey is better at him than all of this. His shooting from distance has not been good since he joined, and his distance distribution has been poor at times as well. I think bringing in better players, or players that are more comfortable on the ball has made Johnson''s limitations more obvious as well.

[SeattleCanary 0]

Agreed. But like I said, how do you go from potentially on the England fringes to club squad player? Did he lose ability since 2 seasons ago?