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Redders Right Foot

Ruddy not starting according to sky

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Thats no reflection on John Ruddy, it''s just that we''re an unfashionable club, so have to perform 10 times better than other players to get a sniff at an outing for England!

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Or play for celtic for the 6-8 games of the season that they are up against decent opposition. Not the other 40 non event sunday league fixtures they have. Forster comes up against strikers who are rejects from the english 3rd or 4th tier like paul heffernan and rowan vine. And has about 2 saves a match. Doesn''t matter anyway because lets face it hidgson is outa his depth and will get it wrong anyway. No doubt lallana and rodriguez will be played outa position anyway. The sooner the WC is over and they bring someone younger with fresh ideas in the better.

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Not sure I am overly surprised.

I am not saying that Ruddy isn''t good enough, he clearly is, but if you aren''t going to play Joe Hart because he isn''t in top form then it was always going to be unlikely to be Ruddy who isn''t at his best either - IMHO.

Part of that isn''t his fault, for a keeper to be on top form he needs to be more confident and to be playing in a team that isn''t shipping goals as ours has in recent weeks. I dare say he''ll see some match time at some point over the next couple of games (you''d think).

Saying that, Forster is a good keeper too, he''s not playing in the best league but that''s not his fault. This sort of opportunity for him could see a summer return to the Premier League.

I personally feel both Ruddy and Forster are probably about equal, obviously they have their strengths but on balance I don''t think there is much between them although right now, Forster is in a team that''s doing well and he is performing with confidence and so I''d probably pick him too at the moment.

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It cannot be overlooked that a Ruddy has conceded far too many goals of late - particularly at Man City, two of which he should have stopped. Hart has been making mistakes too, and was left out of city squad as well as England.

Forster has been, and looks in form, and probably deserves to jersey tonight. We all know how good a keeper he was at NCFC.

Rudy''s World Cup place will depend on how NCFC fare this season, and IMO I don''t think he will make the squad.

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Ruddy has been on the bench/sidelines for a while, and only missed out on a spot in the Euro squad and more possible appearances through injury, so it is a bit of a kick in the balls to be overlooked for a guy who plays in a much lesser league. Sadly it isn''t that much of a surprise, though.

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Whatever the rights or wrongs I don''t think Ruddy can have too many complaints about not starting tonight. He''s been generally solid this season (Man City and Spurs aside) but I don''t think he has quite recaptured the form of last season. If he does that then the rest will take care of itself.

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Making Plans wrote the following post at 15/11/2013 8:34 PM:

Watching Portugal v Sweden - good game (0-0 at half time)

Our 2 lads playing really well.

Better than watching friendlies that mean nowt

Spot on. Good game, Sweden hanging on !

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Thought it was a bit harsh for the ITV pundits to not even mention Ruddy before the game though - preferring to mention that Joe Hart, number 2 Fraser Forster and 3rd choice Ben Foster, will be our three England keepers - they even acknowledging Ruddy exists!

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i dont think forsters performance has done ruddys chances any harm tbh, he looked very nervy in the first halftruth is unless ruddy moves to a top 6 club in january and plays week in week out with a quality defence in front of him hes just going to be back up, hes not going to replace joe hart whilst playing for Norwich

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There''s no point playing Forster tonight if he''s not going to play him or Ruddy against Germany.

 

Everyone knows what Hart is capable of - and he''s been in decline the last couple of years anyway.

 

He either needs to give Fraser another chance or he needs to let Ruddy have a go. Putting Hart back in against Germany would just send out a message that it was a token gesture and his place is safe - which it shouldn''t be.

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[quote user="iron_stan"]i dont think forsters performance has done ruddys chances any harm tbh, he looked very nervy in the first half

truth is unless ruddy moves to a top 6 club in january and plays week in week out with a quality defence in front of him hes just going to be back up, hes not going to replace joe hart whilst playing for Norwich
[/quote]

 

Stan, I absolutely disagree with that. A good goalkeeper on his game can shine even if his team is weak in defending. However, I agree with your point on Forster. Some would say he would not have been expected to save the two he conceded, however, if you look carefully at the replays Forster looked a little weak on both of them. 

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[quote user="GJP"]

There''s no point playing Forster tonight if he''s not going to play him or Ruddy against Germany.

 

Everyone knows what Hart is capable of - and he''s been in decline the last couple of years anyway.

 

He either needs to give Fraser another chance or he needs to let Ruddy have a go. Putting Hart back in against Germany would just send out a message that it was a token gesture and his place is safe - which it shouldn''t be.

[/quote]

It was always going to be a token gesture. Hart number 1 & Foster number 2 is set in stone. Forster & Ruddy are fighting for number 3 that''s all

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="iron_stan"]i dont think forsters performance has done ruddys chances any harm tbh, he looked very nervy in the first halftruth is unless ruddy moves to a top 6 club in january and plays week in week out with a quality defence in front of him hes just going to be back up, hes not going to replace joe hart whilst playing for Norwich[/quote]

 

Stan, I absolutely disagree with that. A good goalkeeper on his game can shine even if his team is weak in defending

[/quote]its not always about making lots of saves (lets face it he gets plenty of practice with norwich), we know hes a very good shot stopper, brave, agile etc, its as much about making those one or two big game changing saves in the big games (ie top 5 games and champions league) and proving hes got the nerve/kahunas/mentality to do it at the top level, he wont get that at carrow roadif joe hart was at crystal palace he wouldnt be england number 1. if ruddy wants to be england number 1 he needs to join chelsea, arsenal or utdthe press would also then get behind him more the only real reason forsters been given a chance is for a couple of half decent champions league performances and a bit of pressure from the press

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[quote user="iron_stan"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="iron_stan"]i dont think forsters performance has done ruddys chances any harm tbh, he looked very nervy in the first half

truth is unless ruddy moves to a top 6 club in january and plays week in week out with a quality defence in front of him hes just going to be back up, hes not going to replace joe hart whilst playing for Norwich
[/quote]

 

Stan, I absolutely disagree with that. A good goalkeeper on his game can shine even if his team is weak in defending

[/quote]

its not always about making lots of saves (lets face it he gets plenty of practice with norwich), we know hes a very good shot stopper, brave, agile etc, its as much about making those one or two big game changing saves in the big games (ie top 5 games and champions league) and proving hes got the nerve/kahunas/mentality to do it at the top level, he wont get that at carrow road

if joe hart was at crystal palace he wouldnt be england number 1. if ruddy wants to be england number 1 he needs to join chelsea, arsenal or utd

the press would also then get behind him more

 the only real reason forsters been given a chance is for a couple of half decent champions league performances and a bit of pressure from the press
[/quote]

 

If Ruddy joined Chelsea, Arsenal or Manchester United he wouldn''t be number 1 for those teams, or England. If Joe Hart doesn''t win his place back at Manchester City he may find his England position is in jeopardy. You need to check history, Stan, in terms of understanding which goalkeepers held the England jersey ( for any length of time ) and which club teams they played for while they were number 1 for England. For example, when Paul Robinson took the position Leeds were being relegated from the top flight. After he moved to Spurs they finished 14th. Before Robinson, most of David James caps were while he was with teams like West Ham, Manchester City and Portsmouth, none of which were top performing teams. As I said, John Ruddy has a good opportunity to shine with Norwich City given today''s media coverage and, further, the other keepers he is competing with currently are not made of the stuff of the very good England keepers of the past.

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even if joe hart only plays 3 more games for man city this season he will go to the world cup as first choicethe game has changed, john ruddy wont challenge joe or be a serious contender until he leaves for a bigger club, he might get in the squad but he wont take that place until hes first choice at a top 5 team, you dont just need to perform you need to win over the press, big clubs get all the press coveragehes not playing badly, and i think hes as good as hart. but theres even a suggestion that butland and ben foster are just as eligible, until he proves it in the top 5 they wont back him for number 1

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[quote user="iron_stan"]even if joe hart only plays 3 more games for man city this season he will go to the world cup as first choice

the game has changed, john ruddy wont challenge joe or be a serious contender until he leaves for a bigger club, he might get in the squad but he wont take that place until hes first choice at a top 5 team, you dont just need to perform you need to win over the press, big clubs get all the press coverage

hes not playing badly, and i think hes as good as hart. but theres even a suggestion that butland and ben foster are just as eligible, until he proves it in the top 5 they wont back him for number 1
[/quote]

 

Stan, you make points, then change them, then contradict your own points. You need to think things through if you wish to persuade others to your view.

At first, you said Ruddy needs to join one of the big teams. When I pointed out to you that he wouldn''t be number 1 at those teams you respond in your next post by saying he needs to be first choice in a top 5 team. However, that logic falls apart when you state if Joe Hart only plays 3 more games for Manchester City this season he will go to the World Cup as first choice.

The game has not changed as it relates to which club team a player needs to be with to win the England goalkeeper jersey. You are allowing recent history to overly influence your thinking regarding Joe Hart. Manchester City finished 10th when Hart first got the jersey. He''s had a good run, however, Hart was demonstrating faulty goalkeeping for some time before he was recently dropped. The same thing happened to Paul Robinson. There are no guarantees that a player will maintain his form. It has to be worked for but, most importantly, you have to be playing week in, week out at the Premiership level to maintain the sharpness required. Sitting on the bench won''t get the job done.  

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Some green and yellow tinted specs views on this one. If I remove mine, which is unusual, then I actually think that it was right to play Forster last night, when looking at form, and he does get enough quality action, of course he does. Also, I really see no reason why Ruddy, if good enough and playing regularly and well enough would get over looked, just accept they maybe better keepers. Certainly, other than the recent dip in form, Hart is the best English keeper, he like all keepers has made mistakes but his have always been amplified by the media, the same would happen to Forster, Foster or Ruddy if they were first choice, plus he will probably get enough game at Man City by the end of the season.    

As for the match, it was clear that Forster played OK, but I genuinely felt he looked cumbersome when trying to save the first goal in particular, that''s a lot of bulk to get down quickly and he just didnt look quick enough going down to other top class keepers, but hey I may have just put my specs back on. 

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as stated on the Beeb "Hodgson confirmed Joe Hart will replace Forster in goal against Germany on Tuesday, when Steven Gerrard, Ashley Cole, Phil Jagielka and Daniel Sturridge will also be back in contention."

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