No more Chances

[Ivan Easter 0]

It had been mentioned in the past about how many games would Chris Hughton be given to turn things around numbers like 10 it has now been 11 games into the season no more chances we need a change now, I just hope Mcnally has someone immediately in mind to step in before we slip back in the relegation zone again and then we might not get out of it. Dont wait for the Crystal Palace match they won yesterday and they played away!!!!!!!

[Mister Chops 7]

If we don''t beat Crystal Palace then the time will be right to change managers - but only if a candidate with experience is available.  We can''t risk another Peter Grant episode, the stakes are too high.  I would like to think that potential candidates have been identified, some behind the scenes work has already taken place and off the record conversations have been held in order to hasten any new appointment process.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

What the hell does beating Crystal Palace prove? We must not get into this game by game "win to save his job" scenario. He''s either good enough or he''s not and individual results against cr*p teams at home should not be used as the barometer.

If they think he''s good enough then they should back him. If not, get rid ASAP.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

The longer we leave it the less attractive we are to any decent managers.

2013 = less than a win a MONTH ...

he needs to go if we seriously want to evolve like Swansea and Southhampton and not deteriorate and drop like Bolton and Blackburn.

I just pray McNally has something in the pipeline.

[im spartacus canary 0]

every home team knows if they get at us early we soon raise the white flag and crumble, and the players have been their so often they just seem to accept it... obviously hughton tries to make this not happen but he seems powerless to do anything about it, i''m sick of seeing him looking forlorn on the touchline as yet another team helps themselves to an easy 3 points... whatever grip he had on the situation is long gone.

[barclay_boy111 0]

I think he''s already had to many chances,the ideal scenario would have been to have got rid of him at Man city, with a trip to man city and then 2 weeks break we would have a new manager right now

[barclay_boy111 0]

Sorry trip to west ham*

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,402]

Jim Smith puts it very succinctly.

[crabbycanary 2]

Come on Spartacus, don''t try and stretch a story to something it isn''t.

Recently, Chelsea took the game to us, and took the lead, as did West Ham,we came back in both games very strongly, one we won, the other, unlucky. Cardiff? Well we took the game to them, but it wasn''t to be

I''m not saying there aren''t problems but we didn''t crumble after the initial stages. A bit like yesterday

[*** 0]

[quote user="EGGY a Gibraltar Canary"]It had been mentioned in the past about how many games would Chris Hughton be given to turn things around numbers like 10 it has now been 11 games into the season no more chances we need a change now, I just hope Mcnally has someone immediately in mind to step in before we slip back in the relegation zone again and then we might not get out of it. Dont wait for the Crystal Palace match they won yesterday and they played away!!!!!!![/quote]

 

Huzzah![Y]

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Come on Spartacus, don''t try and stretch a story to something it isn''t.

Recently, Chelsea took the game to us, and took the lead, as did West Ham,we came back in both games very strongly, one we won, the other, unlucky. Cardiff? Well we took the game to them, but it wasn''t to be

I''m not saying there aren''t problems but we didn''t crumble after the initial stages. A bit like yesterday[/quote]read my post again crabby "every home team" meaning when we play away... more often than not the game is lost before we have got going... i appreciate we can be ok at home but that isn''t going to be enough..

[City 2nd 191]

Jim Smith wrote the following post at 2013-11-24 12:50 PM:

What the hell does beating Crystal Palace prove? We must not get into this game by game "win to save his job" scenario. He''s either good enough or he''s not and individual results against cr*p teams at home should not be used as the barometer.

If they think he''s good enough then they should back him. If not, get rid ASAP.

The best post on here this weekend. McNally and the board could cut out all this infighting of supporters - if they sincerely think CH is the man to take us forward TELL US, if they don''t make the decision and let''s ALL move on together.

[Sussexyellow 55]

This will probably not be a popular post (but do read it to the end) - but I think the board has a real dilemma.

Changing managers is an expensive business. Hughton and his team have contracts of employment which will cost a lot to buy out and this will then be a double whammy if we have to pay compensation to another club for an incoming team.

As has been said many times this only makes sense if we can get an upgrade on what we already have. Palace have already stated they were disappointed with the quality of applicants and they now have Pulis who was the one experienced premiership manager that appeared to be readily available. Managers from the lower leagues have not fared well recently, there seems to be a considerable gulf between managing between the premiership and the championship. Which leaves McNally with the task of pulling a rabbit out of the hat from overseas. Whilst it is good to think that he may have targets identified bringing such a change to fruition may just be a lot harder than we think. 

Plus just how far away are we from having had an acceptable start - I think with a smidgen of luck we could easily have got 5 more points from Villa and Cardiff and we would not be having this debate at all. Again not totally clear cut evidence for a parting of the ways.

BUT and its a big BUT we all have the evidence of our own eyes. We clearly have not performed as well as we probably should have for the whole of 2013, and it does not look as though we are about to turn the corner anytime soon.

I certainly would not like to be a board member having to weigh that lot up and come up with the right decision.

[whoareyou? 0]

There are no realistic candidates working in British football who will be an improvement on what we already have now. Malky and Neil Lennon would both be a huge risk.The only option is too look abroad and to me the obvious candidate is Solksjaer.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]What the hell does beating Crystal Palace prove? We must not get into this game by game "win to save his job" scenario. He''s either good enough or he''s not and individual results against cr*p teams at home should not be used as the barometer. If they think he''s good enough then they should back him. If not, get rid ASAP.[/quote]

 

Of course this is how I have always seen it. I said a few weeks ago that I''d be disappointed if our board had the manager''s future dependant on beating West Ham. And now 3 weeks later I''d be even more disappointed if they had kept him because we beat West Ham moving the next must win game along to Palace. Can that be how our board works? If so are people happy with that?

 

At some point the focus must move to the board though. Because surely there''s a limit in the amount people can bang their head against a brick wall without suffering brain damage. In your self-satisfying thread a few weeks ago some posters had been banging their head against that wall for 16 months. 16 solid months continuously without tiring of it. I find that quite incredible. After 16 months you would have thought they''d at least try a different wall to see if it hurt any less...

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

For once, I kind of agree with you Nigel. It cannot be healthy for the club if the board persist any longer in a dead man walking, one bad result from the sack , policy .

So, in the very near future the board must make decision. And you are right, it should not be made on the basis of one game, be that Crystal P, West Ham, Newcastle, Man City or whatever. It should be based on a long period, and , for me 12 months is more than adequate. And, the fact is, that over that period the performances and results simply have not been of an acceptable standard.

You moan about "head banging". Well,I''ve said it before, and make no apologies for repeating it, one perfect remedy for the head banging to cease (except for a few hard-liners) is for Norwich City to start winning some football matches.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

But Reggie you haven''t addressed the point have you. A couple of months ago I was castigated for suggesting that people who had wanted Hughton out must surely have an issue with the board. Now two months further down the line they carry on banging their heads against the same wall still somehow believing "in McNally we trust". Surely that makes no sense?

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Well, it''s a fair enough point Nigel, but how, practically do I (or indeed you) "address" it ?

The point I was making was that, ultimately the board have to make this decision. Whatever you or I say on here does not alter that fact.

My belief is that Mc N still has a reservoir of goodwill from NCFC fans . We trust him to be thorough enough to plan and execute this period wisely. Of course that goodwill will not last forever, and it''d be a shame if he squandered it.

I don''t really see what, as fans, else we can do ?

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]This will probably not be a popular post (but do read it to the end) - but I think the board has a real dilemma.

Changing managers is an expensive business. Hughton and his team have contracts of employment which will cost a lot to buy out and this will then be a double whammy if we have to pay compensation to another club for an incoming team.

As has been said many times this only makes sense if we can get an upgrade on what we already have. Palace have already stated they were disappointed with the quality of applicants and they now have Pulis who was the one experienced premiership manager that appeared to be readily available. Managers from the lower leagues have not fared well recently, there seems to be a considerable gulf between managing between the premiership and the championship. Which leaves McNally with the task of pulling a rabbit out of the hat from overseas. Whilst it is good to think that he may have targets identified bringing such a change to fruition may just be a lot harder than we think. 

Plus just how far away are we from having had an acceptable start - I think with a smidgen of luck we could easily have got 5 more points from Villa and Cardiff and we would not be having this debate at all. Again not totally clear cut evidence for a parting of the ways.

BUT and its a big BUT we all have the evidence of our own eyes. We clearly have not performed as well as we probably should have for the whole of 2013, and it does not look as though we are about to turn the corner anytime soon.

I certainly would not like to be a board member having to weigh that lot up and come up with the right decision.

[/quote]

I think you have it exactly right Sussex. Sacking Hughton is the easy option. The quick fix.

It may be the best option but it comes with such a multitude of problems, risks and potential pitfalls that it is not to be entered into lightly. Fans are quick it scream "Get rid" but it is not a straightforward or obvious path and could spell disaster.

I think City should stick with Hughton for all sorts of reasons. The Worthy comparison is superficial. Hughton is ten times the manager he was. Things are not right. Of course not. But, they could go from bad to worse very easily. Change must be planned and carry the best possible chance of success.

Sacking Hughton is high risk and for every Gunn replaced by Lambert there is a Roeder replaced by Gunn. I know the smartarses will say that keeping him is a risk and beyond the smug rejoinder there is a point in that. We have a risk of falling further.

I am certain of one thing; the Board will be demanding a clear and achievable plan to move towards Bowkett''s targets if it is to continue to put its faith in this management team.

I agree with Sussex that it is very difficult and that the Board will and should not act unless it has a plan in place.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well, it''s a fair enough point Nigel, but how, practically do I (or indeed you) "address" it ? The point I was making was that, ultimately the board have to make this decision. Whatever you or I say on here does not alter that fact. My belief is that Mc N still has a reservoir of goodwill from NCFC fans . We trust him to be thorough enough to plan and execute this period wisely. Of course that goodwill will not last forever, and it''d be a shame if he squandered it. I don''t really see what, as fans, else we can do ?[/quote]

 

How about not turning every decision Hughton makles into a clueless mistake. It''s getting beyond ridiculous and ultimately makes the board look the clueless ones.

 

 

[crabbycanary 2]

Apologies Spartacus, didn''t pick up on the crucial bit!

[ricardo 7,328]

I doubt the board has even considered changing managers. Should we have a bad patch between now and Christmas it might become a topic they wish to consider but those baying for blood in the near future are likely to be disappointed.A manager will live and die by the results and teams like NCFC that are close to the relegation mire will always have a question mark hanging over the managers head.Some people on this forum seem intent on making it a contest between the "Pantwetters" and the "Happy Clappers" and every week the board fills with one or the other depending on the result. Personally speaking it matters little to me as I see as many problems in sticking as there are in twisting.The results will be the decider and what will be will be.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Not for the first time, I don''t really follow your logic there, Nige. Firstly, I''ve never turned every Hughton decision into a mistake . Just those that in my opinion he coud''ve done better.

And secondly, in what way does that impinge on the board ? Are you seriously suggesting that The Wynn Joneses, Bowkett and Mc N read this forum with rapt attention before they make any NCFC related utterance or decision ??!!

[Salopian 1]

CH claimed that we were undone by poor defending. That is true, but given the form fall-off of Bassong, and Martin struggling at this level, the cupboard is bare. Perhaps Whittaker could be given another opportunity, but I certainly wouldn''t want Garrido in place of Olsson. We are gifting goals at the moment.

 

In these circumstances, and with Tettey and Benno out until 2014, and Pilks perhaps as well, a win against Palace could be very much in the manager''s favour, and a defeat not necessarily condemnatory. With Hooper and RvW yet to deliver the goods, Hoolahan  and Bassong seeming to have lost their edge, and Snodgrass possibly injured for a while, would any manager make much of what is available?

[ron obvious 1,495]

Come come now - you know you''re not allowed to mention injuries. Or Luck. Or player mistakes. It''s only ever Hughton''s fault. For ever & ever Amen.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]I doubt the board has even considered changing managers. Should we have a bad patch between now and Christmas it might become a topic they wish to consider but those baying for blood in the near future are likely to be disappointed.A manager will live and die by the results and teams like NCFC that are close to the relegation mire will always have a question mark hanging over the managers head.Some people on this forum seem intent on making it a contest between the "Pantwetters" and the "Happy Clappers" and every week the board fills with one or the other depending on the result. Personally speaking it matters little to me as I see as many problems in sticking as there are in twisting.The results will be the decider and what will be will be.[/quote]

Are you serious Ricky? Apart from the 10 game run, his entire reign here has been a bad patch!

[Nuff Said 5,079]

[quote user="RvWs 4 year contract"][quote user="ricardo"]I doubt the board has even considered changing managers. Should we have a bad patch between now and Christmas it might become a topic they wish to consider but those baying for blood in the near future are likely to be disappointed.A manager will live and die by the results and teams like NCFC that are close to the relegation mire will always have a question mark hanging over the managers head.Some people on this forum seem intent on making it a contest between the "Pantwetters" and the "Happy Clappers" and every week the board fills with one or the other depending on the result. Personally speaking it matters little to me as I see as many problems in sticking as there are in twisting.The results will be the decider and what will be will be.[/quote]

Are you serious Ricky? Apart from the 10 game run, his entire reign here has been a bad patch![/quote]

Yet another ''ignoring the good things, everything about Hughton is rubbish'' post. It just distracts from anything else more credible that may or may not be said.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well, it''s a fair enough point Nigel, but how, practically do I (or indeed you) "address" it ? The point I was making was that, ultimately the board have to make this decision. Whatever you or I say on here does not alter that fact. My belief is that Mc N still has a reservoir of goodwill from NCFC fans . We trust him to be thorough enough to plan and execute this period wisely. Of course that goodwill will not last forever, and it''d be a shame if he squandered it. I don''t really see what, as fans, else we can do ?[/quote]

 

How about not turning every decision Hughton makles into a clueless mistake. It''s getting beyond ridiculous and ultimately makes the board look the clueless ones.

 

 

[/quote]

 

You asked what the fans coulkd do not what you personally could do or have done. I answered that point by saying it would help not trying to make out that everything Hughton does is clueless. Every selection or substitution.  By doing that it makes the board look even more clueless.

 

But as you mentioned you personally how about the one where I did a little research for you that you failed to acknowledge. Apart from the bad manners of not acknowledging the favour you suggesting those stats were worse than they would certainly help make the board look clueless for not acting on them.

 

 

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="RvWs 4 year contract"][quote user="ricardo"]I doubt the board has even considered changing managers. Should we have a bad patch between now and Christmas it might become a topic they wish to consider but those baying for blood in the near future are likely to be disappointed.A manager will live and die by the results and teams like NCFC that are close to the relegation mire will always have a question mark hanging over the managers head.Some people on this forum seem intent on making it a contest between the "Pantwetters" and the "Happy Clappers" and every week the board fills with one or the other depending on the result. Personally speaking it matters little to me as I see as many problems in sticking as there are in twisting.The results will be the decider and what will be will be.[/quote]Are you serious Ricky? Apart from the 10 game run, his entire reign here has been a bad patch![/quote]Deadly serious mate.Unless we look like getting cut adrift in the next half a dozen games then he is in no danger.If finishing half way up the Premier League is a bad patch then I''m up for it continuing.If you boys are still hankering after Lambert type performances then perhaps the Championship and League one is a better place for us to play because as sure as eggs are eggs you are not going to get much of that sort of stuff in this league.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Nigel, you keep harping on about this "research" you did, but I''m sorry , I genuinely have no idea what you are on about. I''ll openly admit that I do not have the time or the patience to read every thread on here every day. I''ve been away on business for nearly all of the last 2 weeks .So if you came up with some gem, that I missed, then I''m sorry.

And by "the board" are you referring to this messageboard or the board of directors ? If it''s the former, then yes every single one of us (you and me included) have our clueless moments . If it''s the latter, then I repeat, how does the minutae of Hughton''s (for example, substitution policy) make the directors clueless?!