Is it that bad?

[mrs miggins 0]

aaaaannnnnnnnnnddddddddd GO!

[Dubai Mark 0]

lol, a good question that is so very difficult to answer.

It all depends on what your expectations are, how far away from what you expected at the beginning of this season,what you are comparing things with and if you take into consideration wher the club has come from in such a short space of time an on relatively small resources I guess?

In reality, everyone will have a different answer, but for me it has to be "not that bad", but should certainly be better, as I was expecting us to be around mid table, not flirting with the bottom three positions and on around six-eight more points by now....oh and not having suffered such a tonking to one of the "big boys".  But when looking at how the league has gone so far, and seeing several other clubs of a similar size to us but with more resources also struggling I am managing the disappointment, but am of course concerned.

As for the general negativity on this board, well that''s worse than I expected, its very bad.  

Actually that was difficult to answer at all OTBC

[Dubai Mark 0]

...and I really must check my spelling before I post......insert "not" into last sentence, and add missing letters where appropriate.

[splutcho 173]

No, it''s not really. We have no right to go to St James'' Park and beat Newcastle, and a side in form at that. Sometimes you lose these games and that''s life being a bottom half PL side.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

The thing is, i agree we have no right to beat Newcastle, but they were there for the taking on Saturday and a combination of negative setup from Hughton and some sloppy play by our under pressure defence killed any chance we had.

Is it that bad? No, not really, realistically, we are probably the smallest team in the league other than the newly promoted trio and so anything 17th or above would be quite easy to live with.

I''m still enjoying looking down on Leeds, Ipswich and Wolves etc when they celebrate wins over Doncaster and Tranmere and thinking "big whoop, another win against a village side, come back when you''re in with the big boys."

There are players with us who have probably reached their ceiling, to name a few, Russell Martin is a competent right back but has his limitations at this level, but for £50k from P''Boro, we can hardly argue, same with Johnson from Leeds for free and about £20k a week, absolute snip for what he''s contributed, but his ability doesn''t seem to match the premiership standard now and it''s finally showing. Nothing personal, but we need an upgrade.

It seems that there may be a three tiered premiership this year as opposed to the top 6/7 then the rest, Newcastle and co that were down with us on much bigger budgets seem to have sorted themselves out now and we''re stuck in a group with everyone about Hull City down for them final 3 relegation slots.

Our stint in the premiership will be full of peaks and troughs and as long as it doesn''t see us relegated, i''ll deal with a 17th place finish. Having said that, 7 wins in the whole year is unacceptable and i''d be tempted to line up a quality replacement for Hughton as the danger of our bad run taking us down is obvious. Nothing before the Palace game, as i''d rather not have the unsettlement before our easiest game of the season on paper but anything less than a win and Hughton would be a dead man walking.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

I think that it is that bad when you turn up to games with no hope or expectation. We don''t have any right to a point against anyone in this league, but there should always be hope.

We seem absolutely incapable of getting anything away from home. Every performance is similarly bad and predictable. It hasn''t changed since day one of Hughtons appointment. His ethos seems to be, if its broke don''t fix it! Why does he persist on the same tactics that clearly don''t work? Not matter how bad Hughton is refusing to change and eventually it''ll cost us dear.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Well the positive thing is we are not in the bottom three, I think that is where it ends.

I didn''t think we would get anything from Newcastle although ironically the game mirrored the game at CR last year, a team there for the taking but we weren''t interested.

Historically I have always looked at struggling Norwich sides in the past and bemoaned the lack of quality, I honestly can''t see that with this squad.

I would still say that we probably have the strongest squad in Norwich city history and that puts Hughtons management and motivational skills into perspective, Peter Grant could probably get more out of this squad.

You just cant see where the next win is coming from and the players also seem completely devoid of all confidence, the longer we wait for a change (which surely has to come) the more likely we are to be relegated and never get the chance to see how this group of players could really perform.

[Brightside 0]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]Well the positive thing is we are not in the bottom three, I think that is where it ends. I didn''t think we would get anything from Newcastle although ironically the game mirrored the game at CR last year, a team there for the taking but we weren''t interested. Historically I have always looked at struggling Norwich sides in the past and bemoaned the lack of quality, I honestly can''t see that with this squad. I would still say that we probably have the strongest squad in Norwich city history and that puts Hughtons management and motivational skills into perspective, Peter Grant could probably get more out of this squad. You just cant see where the next win is coming from and the players also seem completely devoid of all confidence, the longer we wait for a change (which surely has to come) the more likely we are to be relegated and never get the chance to see how this group of players could really perform.[/quote]

Agree with Keelan’sGlove on this one.

 

I posted last week about not expecting a result at Newcastle and that Palace was the must win game but thinking again how many more last chances do we have to give Hughton? How long do we have to keep on kidding ourselves that we will be ok and we will get enough points to be safe? We only have 26 more games to go and let’s say we will need 38 points to survive this means we need more than a draw every game to be safe. Is Hughton and are Hughton’s tactics really going to be able to achieve this?

 

The current article on the main page “”Chris Hughton - Norwich City’s players must accept responsibility after conceding soft goals in Newcastle Premier League loss”” is very worrying. Chris doesn’t seem to want to take any responsibility for our poor form. The way I read it is that he sees the two Newcastle goals as the players responsibility and that we were just unlucky not to have got ourselves a point. In the article Hughton makes no reference to making changes after either Pilkington’s injury or the first goal. It seems as if his mentality is to struggle on no matter what and hope we get the rub of the green.. His two ridiculous 88 min substitutions seem to back this up. We’ve seen exactly the same thing time and time again this season, Hughton is unable to make changes and implement a plan B during a game. If Hughton cannot see any negatives in his tactics and in particular the way he sets up the team and manages substitutions then I can’t see an improvement any time soon.

The infuriating thing about us at the moment is that I truly believe that with the players we have we could have won more games. It seems clear to me that it is Hughtons tactics, or lack of that has meant that we haven’t. As is evidenced above this will not change and so the only other option is a tactically aware proactive manager.

 

[ROBFLECK 132]

Yes, I think it is that bad...because I just don''t enjoy watching City atm. It''s like I don''t even expect anything from a game anymore. It''s deflation before even a ball has been kicked. I was at CR two weeks ago and the feeling around the place at half time was the most negative I have known for years. I know we won the game, but the positives from that are fragile to say the least.

I miss the fighting spirit under Lambert...sorry to mention that name...but I miss it...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Im not sure the results have been ''that bad'', its more the manner of them. We all have the perception that we should be doing better than we are, and this comes from our perception of how good the players are. We''ve seen most of them play a lot better than they are doing currently, so there is a sense of underachievement and a sense of ineffectiveness in our play contriving to make that happen. If we''d had the same results but the players were creating tonnes of chances, looked like they knew what to do with the ball and looked happy and confident, I think people would generally be ok with our league position. But there seem to be problems everywhere. Fans arent unhappy for a reason. I dont think we''re unhappy because our expectation levels have become ludicrously unrealistic. I think we just want to be able to say ''that x, he''s having a cracking season''. I cant really think of anyone who has covered themselves in glory this season and thats worrying

[Tetteys Jig 830]

The fighting spirit was there on Saturday, just 70 minutes too late.

[*** 0]

Look at the 6 games after Palace.

 

Liverpool away.......West Brom away.....Swansea home..............Sunderland away........Fulham and Manure home.

 

Now be afraid, no, be very afraid!

[*** 0]

I''m prepared to go further.........if you still support Hughton then you don''t really care about our clubs well being.

[Hannibal II 0]

Yes the football we have been served up ever since Hughon has been manager has been nothing short of dross. He is certainly not the next Brian Clough.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="Wiz"]I''m prepared to go further.........if you still support Hughton then you don''t really care about our clubs well being.[/quote]

As a recent convert to the ''out'' camp, i can nevertheless say that is a ridiculous and purely provocative statement.

As for the OP question. Yes things are are that bad. Partly because last season we would have won that game. We would have defended that corner for the first and a fully confident John Ruddy or Mark Bunn come to that would have kept the second out.

You might say "Hughton was the manager last season!" but that doesn''t mean a great deal if you imagine what happened for e.g. to Martin O''Neill between his first and second season. Use the analogy of flying a plane. When everything clicks, it looks easy, everything is functioning and you''re cruising along nicely. But if something changes - which could be all manner of things, new players, injuries etc - you need to be able to maintain control. Right now, we''re losing altitude fast and i''ve lost faith in Hughton''s ability to regain control of the aircraft!

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]

You might say "Hughton was the manager last season!" but that doesn''t mean a great deal if you imagine what happened for e.g. to Martin O''Neill between his first and second season. [/quote]

...first and second season *at Sunderland* that is!

[4th floor 4]

Whether you like the style Hughton is trying to play or not, we''re just not playing it very well. It''s very similar to the cautious game popular in Italy, but after nearly one and a half seasons we seem at best to have gone sideways (in more ways than one!).

[ReadingCanary 0]

If we had gone to Newcastle and lost 2:1 having giving it a real good go, with some decent tactical subs and some star performances / great team performance I would be happyThe truth is we were shocking.  We couldn''t even pass the ball let alone keep possession Around the 70th Minute Newcastle just decided to stop going for itIf they had continued for 90mins it would have been 3 o 42:1 flattered us greatly.

[a1canary 0]

It''s a real condundrum isn''t it. Playing a cautious game can work well, just as playing an adventurous game can work well. Equally, if player''s confidence is shot both can be disastrous, for different reasons. We played a cautious game confidently this time last year and it worked well. We played an attacking game confidently under Lambert in our first season and that worked well overall.

The problem now is, players are losing confidence and we appear to be spiralling downwards and Hughton seems out of ideas for how to arrest the decline and turn our fortunes around.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

If the style was successful and had us in 7th place, we''d probably hear less whinging (like during the unbeaten run). But the truth is, that was the blip, not what we''re going through at the moment. We''re playing poor football, and it isnt successful. Think most fans would accept poor but successful, or even to some degree great to watch but unsuccessful. But to have poor football which is also unsuccessful is very frustrating. Its hard to see exactly what Hughton is trying to do. Im not sure what his football philosophy is other than get men behind the ball and hope the ball somehow goes in on its own at the other end. I dont htink we need different players, the players are gooe enough - their talents need to be released and this isnt happening at the moment

[Crystal Canary 0]

IF we beat Palace next week, we could be joint 12th.

12th?! Outrageous! #Hughtonout blah blah rah rah burble burble.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Wiz"]I''m prepared to go further.........if you still support Hughton then you don''t really care about our clubs well being.[/quote]

 

That''ll include McNally and Delia then Wiz?

 

 

[TCCANARY 263]

  

I''m prepared to state that if you don''t support Hughton then you don''t really care about our clubs well being.

   

Also if you are ambivalent about Hughton then you don''t care about our clubs well being.

     

So that''s no-one caring about the club, that seems fair.

   

 

 

[Sox 1 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]The thing is, i agree we have no right to beat Newcastle, but they were there for the taking on Saturday and a combination of negative setup from Hughton and some sloppy play by our under pressure defence killed any chance we had.

Is it that bad? No, not really, realistically, we are probably the smallest team in the league other than the newly promoted trio and so anything 17th or above would be quite easy to live with.

I''m still enjoying looking down on Leeds, Ipswich and Wolves etc when they celebrate wins over Doncaster and Tranmere and thinking "big whoop, another win against a village side, come back when you''re in with the big boys."

There are players with us who have probably reached their ceiling, to name a few, Russell Martin is a competent right back but has his limitations at this level, but for £50k from P''Boro, we can hardly argue, same with Johnson from Leeds for free and about £20k a week, absolute snip for what he''s contributed, but his ability doesn''t seem to match the premiership standard now and it''s finally showing. Nothing personal, but we need an upgrade.

It seems that there may be a three tiered premiership this year as opposed to the top 6/7 then the rest, Newcastle and co that were down with us on much bigger budgets seem to have sorted themselves out now and we''re stuck in a group with everyone about Hull City down for them final 3 relegation slots.

Our stint in the premiership will be full of peaks and troughs and as long as it doesn''t see us relegated, i''ll deal with a 17th place finish. Having said that, 7 wins in the whole year is unacceptable and i''d be tempted to line up a quality replacement for Hughton as the danger of our bad run taking us down is obvious. Nothing before the Palace game, as i''d rather not have the unsettlement before our easiest game of the season on paper but anything less than a win and Hughton would be a dead man walking.[/quote]

This is a really well thought out and constructed post Jimmy Smith; you makes some very good and valid points. For me your post highlights the dilemma the board must be facing at the moment, as I am sure they would like us to have made more progress than we have, however, if ''push comes to shove'', they would probably live with Norwich still being in the premiership next season, and who knows whether a change of manager would make that more likely or not!!!

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

I feel like we''re on the Titanic. We can all see the iceburg but the captain refuses to change direction.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Answer to OP''s question: yes

[ricardo 7,344]

[quote user="ROBFLECK"]Answer to OP''s question: yes[/quote]

Man up Flecky!26 nail biting games to go yet, you''ll never last the season at this rate.[:D]