Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MancCanary

Who feels like we've turned back into "Little Norwich" again under Hughton?

Recommended Posts

I''ve defended Hughton for a long time, then I wanted him out after the Spurs game, but then I gave him a few more games following the Cardiff performance and the West Ham result. But that''s it now. I look at our performances, the way other teams approach us, the comments of pundits fans... and it all feels like it did 4 years ago, when we were "Little old Norwich".

As for the reasons why - for me, it''s all about the player''s deep-rooted confidence, which as far as I can see is now at rock bottom.

The tricky thing when criticising Hughton''s reign is that it''s not all bad, and it''s hard to put your finger on one big reason for which to attribute all of the blame. Which is why I think the best thing to say is that a collection of negative things have conspired to reduce the overall confidence of our players over the last 2 seasons.

I believe that bad man-management (Holt, Morison, Becchio, Vaughan, Fox etc - which must affect morale among the group), poor tactics, when combined with the wrong attitude to away games & playing the big teams, has affected their own confidence, both in themselves and in the management.

They now only get the confidence back to play well again after a goal, and that''s the only source they get it from, and it''s only ever temporary. Their natural, deep-rooted level of confidence - the confidence in themselves that should get them ready for a game and to go at it from the start - has vanished.

Lambert, (and I don''t feel bad mentioning him or comparing the two of them - why not?) brought almost instantaneous self-belief to a group of lost, confused and under-performing players (sound familiar?). I''m afraid we must try and find another man to do a similar job.

Admittedly that is going to take some luck, but I think it''s now actually less of a gamble than hoping Hughton can turn it around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That wasn''t really my point.

Plus, that''s not my job. I couldn''t have picked Lambert out for instance, I have very little knowledge of league one and below.

However, I''m hoping that McNally and his scouts have a very good understanding of who is worth a shot in the leagues below and more importantly (I think), abroad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

When the ''who''d have thought that little old Norwich'' would be going to The Emirates and Old Trafford statement was made it was more a dig at the perception of the club outside Norfolk than our supporters so, as you''re in Manchester what do you think?

   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="MancCanary"]That wasn''t really my point. Plus, that''s not my job. I couldn''t have picked Lambert out for instance, I have very little knowledge of league one and below. However, I''m hoping that McNally and his scouts have a very good understanding of who is worth a shot in the leagues below and more importantly (I think), abroad.[/quote]

That''s a very good point. We all sit here going "Oh, but who would replace him? There''s no one out there..." but not one of us (come on, be honest) would have suggested Paul Lambert back in Summer 2009 after we got rid of the hapless Gunn. I remember a guy at work coming across saying Paul Lambert had got the job - and my initial reaction was "who the **** is he?" So there are always options out there, and as MancCanary says, it''s not our job to identify them. You can''t keep an underperforming manager in his job just because there''s apparently "no one else out there".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="MancCanary"]That wasn''t really my point.

Plus, that''s not my job. I couldn''t have picked Lambert out for instance, I have very little knowledge of league one and below.

However, I''m hoping that McNally and his scouts have a very good understanding of who is worth a shot in the leagues below and more importantly (I think), abroad.[/quote]From all I''ve heard at Forum''s and AGM''s, McNally and Co believe that they already have the best man for the job. Others may disagree but then they don''t run the club do they?Unless we really sink into the relegation mire and CR becomes an arena baying for his blood every week then I can''t see them parting with him. As I''ve said on other threads I expect CH will still be here at Xmas and probably for a lot longer than that..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

When the ''who''d have thought that little old Norwich'' would be going to The Emirates and Old Trafford statement was made it was more a dig at the perception of the club outside Norfolk than our supporters so, as you''re in Manchester what do you think?

   

 

[/quote]

To be honest, I''m not sure what the average manc thinks of us! But my Utd & City supporting friends certainly had a certain amount of respect for us under Lambert, and even last year after the 10 game unbeaten run and the wins against Utd and Arsenal. But since then it''s just been "oh dear, when are you going to sack hughton?" every week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="MancCanary"]That wasn''t really my point.

Plus, that''s not my job. I couldn''t have picked Lambert out for instance, I have very little knowledge of league one and below.

However, I''m hoping that McNally and his scouts have a very good understanding of who is worth a shot in the leagues below and more importantly (I think), abroad.[/quote]From all I''ve heard at Forum''s and AGM''s, McNally and Co believe that they already have the best man for the job. Others may disagree but then they don''t run the club do they?Unless we really sink into the relegation mire and CR becomes an arena baying for his blood every week then I can''t see them parting with him. As I''ve said on other threads I expect CH will still be here at Xmas and probably for a lot longer than that..[/quote]

To be honest Ricardo, they''re always going to say that at the forums and public meetings aren''t they? Despite what they may be thinking inside. It''s not as if Bowkett or McNally can openly say "Well, we''re not very happy with Chris and we''re giving him 3 more games - but rest assured we''re very busy looking at potential replacements"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

When the ''who''d have thought that little old Norwich'' would be going to The Emirates and Old Trafford statement was made it was more a dig at the perception of the club outside Norfolk than our supporters so, as you''re in Manchester what do you think?

   

 

[/quote]

To be honest, I''m not sure what the average manc thinks of us! But my Utd & City supporting friends certainly had a certain amount of respect for us under Lambert, and even last year after the 10 game unbeaten run and the wins against Utd and Arsenal. But since then it''s just been "oh dear, when are you going to sack hughton?" every week.[/quote]

 

So that''s different from ''little Norwich'', that reaction is about the transient nature of our results and the ''easy answer'' culture that these fans seek in sacking the manager, if we had a ten game unbeaten run now would they change their minds?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

When the ''who''d have thought that little old Norwich'' would be going to The Emirates and Old Trafford statement was made it was more a dig at the perception of the club outside Norfolk than our supporters so, as you''re in Manchester what do you think?

   

 

[/quote]

To be honest, I''m not sure what the average manc thinks of us! But my Utd & City supporting friends certainly had a certain amount of respect for us under Lambert, and even last year after the 10 game unbeaten run and the wins against Utd and Arsenal. But since then it''s just been "oh dear, when are you going to sack hughton?" every week.[/quote]

 

So that''s different from ''little Norwich'', that reaction is about the transient nature of our results and the ''easy answer'' culture that these fans seek in sacking the manager, if we had a ten game unbeaten run now would they change their minds?

 

[/quote]

To me, the whole "Little Norwich" thing is about how WE feel we are perceived by others, not about how others actually perceive us. We don''t want to be seen as an easy 3 points, and we want to be playing above our perceived level or expectation, and to finish above where the majority of others expect. Ie, we want to worry the big teams in matches, we want to impress the fans of the big teams, pundits, etc, and we want to finish mid table or higher.

So, in terms of what people like my mates *actually* think of us, I think another 10 game unbeaten run would actually only change their minds about how we are doing this season. In reality, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea fans etc, will always see us as "Little Norwich". But we can either be a little Norwich doing quite well, playing good football and earning respect, or we can be little Norwich - an easy 3 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yea, we''ve become the joke of the league with what spineless push-overs we''ve become, reading opposition fans views on us is always painful. I''m sick to death of hearing ''the worst side I''ve seen all season'' so many times! This should never have been allowed to happen and the buck stops with the management team. It''s absolutely soul destroying to see what we''ve become from what we were before Hughton took over.

There are also plenty of options out there. Football does exist outside of England you know? Needing Premier League experience is absolute rubbish. I''d much rather we spent a big chunk of January''s funds on acquiring a good manager that could get this team to play AT LEAST to the sum of it''s parts, not well well below it like now.

Even if we somehow couldn''t attract a proven foreign great manager like Lucien Favre for example (Who would be my no.1 choice, maybe unlikely but who knows) Then you have to look at the current set up. Under Hughton the bottom line is we can''t attack and we can''t defend, simple, as long as we''re sensible we cannot possibly do any worse!

So even if we had to fall back on our 5th/6th/7th choice like for example:

Lennon: Maybe not technically better than Hughton but has a real winners mentality just like Lambert and you can guarantee he''d get this team playing for him. At the very least he''d get us out of this rut

Dyche: Performing at the same level with an average Burnley side that Hughton did with Newcastle that had a frankly outrageous team in the championship that year. They have no money either, like Hughton had at Birmingham yet Dyche is doing much better than Hughton did. His strongest point is EXACTLY what we need, he get''s his team playing together to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Jol would do well here given free reign once when he leaves Fulham (which is looking very soon)

Even in an absolute emergency if we had to go for Holloway for example, I''d rather be a team under him that can attack and score despite not being able to defend than be us at the moment which can do neither.

I wanted Hughton to succeed but this is just sad now, he won''t last the season so just get it over with, pull the trigger and give the new man some time before January!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

When the ''who''d have thought that little old Norwich'' would be going to The Emirates and Old Trafford statement was made it was more a dig at the perception of the club outside Norfolk than our supporters so, as you''re in Manchester what do you think?

   

 

[/quote]

To be honest, I''m not sure what the average manc thinks of us! But my Utd & City supporting friends certainly had a certain amount of respect for us under Lambert, and even last year after the 10 game unbeaten run and the wins against Utd and Arsenal. But since then it''s just been "oh dear, when are you going to sack hughton?" every week.[/quote]

 

So that''s different from ''little Norwich'', that reaction is about the transient nature of our results and the ''easy answer'' culture that these fans seek in sacking the manager, if we had a ten game unbeaten run now would they change their minds?

 

[/quote]

To me, the whole "Little Norwich" thing is about how WE feel we are perceived by others, not about how others actually perceive us. We don''t want to be seen as an easy 3 points, and we want to be playing above our perceived level or expectation, and to finish above where the majority of others expect. Ie, we want to worry the big teams in matches, we want to impress the fans of the big teams, pundits, etc, and we want to finish mid table or higher.

So, in terms of what people like my mates *actually* think of us, I think another 10 game unbeaten run would actually only change their minds about how we are doing this season. In reality, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea fans etc, will always see us as "Little Norwich". But we can either be a little Norwich doing quite well, playing good football and earning respect, or we can be little Norwich - an easy 3 points.[/quote]

So the answer to your original question is you, you feel like we''ve turned back into "Little Norwich" again under Hughton.

Personally I don''t, we are playing in a tough league where getting points is a tough job, it was a tough job in our first season back and it was a tough job in our second season back, if that gives us the prefix of "little" then you''ll need to apply that to about eleven other clubs as well.

 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes I would agree there''s about 11 other clubs who''s fans feel the same. But then there''s Soton, West Brom, Swansea etc who are all playing good football and are generally playing above their perceived station and winning plaudits.

But no I don''t agree that it''s just me who feels like we''re slipping back to being perceived as "little norwich". Just because I haven''t gone and interviewed the average man on the streets of Manchester to ask whether he thinks that doesn''t mean I haven''t noticed it from other sources. I''m talking about opposition fans online, on Twitter, and pundits on Sky and Motd.

To look at it from a psychological perspective..

Under Lambert we had a big personality leading us into battle, and the team played like the man talked - tough, uncompromising and like a winner. Now I feel we represent Hughton''s character - pleasant, easy-going, and slightly meek. I think the attitude and personality always does filter down from the man at the top. Look at all of fergie''s teams over the years - never gave up did they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A bit, but that''s kind of what we are, i''d say we''re the joint 4th least reputable club in the league after the promoted trio.

Put it this way, you all bemoan how well Swansea, Southampton and WBA are doing, but would you rather be us or Sunderland, Fulham, West Ham or Stoke?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]A bit, but that''s kind of what we are, i''d say we''re the joint 4th least reputable club in the league after the promoted trio.

Put it this way, you all bemoan how well Swansea, Southampton and WBA are doing, but would you rather be us or Sunderland, Fulham, West Ham or Stoke?[/quote]

I wasn''t bemoaning Swansea, Soton or WBA - I was saying they are roughly equally sized and supported clubs to us but whom are doing well enough to earn respect from everyone in the league by playing very decent football. I admire them and I''m jealous. We''ve gone backwards and have started to play terrible football, and become very easy to beat.

To answer your question though Jimmy, I think Norwich are liked more by other fans than the 4 clubs you mentioned, but in terms of respect as a football team, we''re right down at the bottom along with those guys. Hence my initial gambit about us going back to being perceived as "Little old Norwich" - lucky to be in the league at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...