Gutless

[SYG 0]

Not gutless at all, 36/37 defeats out of 50 games in charge is not good enough at all! He has to go

[the bristol nest 0]

Succinct.

[hogesar 9,615]

Bit harsh referring to people as Gutless. As one of those who travelled to Newcastle and had to endure that game - just because it was 2-1 doesn''t mean people shouldn''t complain.

I really thought Newcastle didn''t look special and especially after the second goal stopped looking a threat other than when we made our own stupid mistakes.

Yet we decided to keep 3 central midfielders and do nothing to support Hooper. Even playing Hoolahan behind Hooper for the second half to at least give us a chance of linking play up...

It''s just painful. Really painful. You travel that far and go 2-0 down. I don''t blame Hughton for them two goals but i do wonder where our Defensive steel has gone this season.

But when you are 2-0 down. And you''re chasing a game. I expect to see positive attempts to rectify it. We came back in the second half and pressed a little more, granted. Played a little better, too. Why we don''t put any pressure on the opposition till the second half is beyond me. Same against West Ham at home.

I just thought when Pilkington got injured it was a fantastic chance to change things! Turn a negative into a positive. We''ve lost a winger - so we could bring Murphy on, and also take off a midfielder and bring on Elmander / Becchio and go two up front.

If we didn''t want to go 4-4-2 we could have mixed it around, brought Hoolahan on and as i said, tried to link play a bit better.

What i didn''t expect, even from Hughton - was for him to bring on a big striker like Elmander - and play him on the right wing as a direct replacement and change nothing. I''ve said it before i think Elmander put a good shift in but tactically it was just a sub to try and keep shape - irrelevant when in my opinion we should be changing things.

[vos 155]

Went to the game and entirely agree with Hogesar. Newcastle were one of the poorer sides I have seen this season. Full of individual foreign players and could not help feeling there was no Geordie team spirit amongst them. Cruised to an early lead via two Ruddy mistakes, yes he has gone off a bit since his injury, and their attitude seemed to be Norwich will never create anything and we will just sit back for the remainder of the game.

Despite what the football press states, it is a simple game, and we just could not put anything of attacking note together, although Newcastle allowed us plenty of possession.

Simple basics which were missing were :

Very little ability to find someone in space. Endless passing across the pitch in our own half with no real purpose.Inability to play the obvious ball quickly. Rare occasions when we did find some space on the flanks there was only the small presence of Hooper to aim at. Crossing was nothing special. No leadership on the pitch coupled with a clear lack of confidence stretching throughout the team.

Yes I know it is easy to criticise, but we actually have some decent players compared with a good six of our competitors, but the boring negative tactics will simply not get us anywhere. Amongst other things surely our coaching staff are not good enough.

Finally, far from impressed with the stadium from a practical point of view. Ridiculous amount of stairs to climb, difficult to identify players from such a height and distance. My thought "away supporters stick them anywhere"

 

[Surfer 1,547]

" What i didn''t expect, even from Hughton - was for him to bring on a big striker like Elmander - and play him on the right wing as a direct replacement and change nothing. I''ve said it before i think Elmander put a good shift in but tactically it was just a sub to try and keep shape - irrelevant when in my opinion we should be changing things. "

Ultimately, this is why I think we need to change the management team ….we never seem to have a plan B if our original one isn''t working out.

[the bristol nest 0]

Some well thought out points made above.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Well LDC may have a different view but, from what I read on here, I believe that the great majority are far from Gutless Whingers but actually truly concerned fans who are genuinely worried that despite our record transfer spending and recruitment of some really good players the management team is not capable of creating a team which is capable of competing properly in this league.

While of course there is a good helping of sensationalist nonsense, much of the comment is well rounded and fair. It points out glaring deficiencies in all sorts of areas. If this were just one or two things going wrong, or one or two people on some kind of vendetta, than fair enough. But it isn''t. There are folk who go every week and travel hundreds of miles with real concerns.

And the bottom line is that after having worked so hard to get us here (remember that the fans who are called gutless whingers stuck by this club through the dark days of league 1 with sell out crowds) it is galling to see it being frittered away and even more disappointing to feel that strong action may not be taken. Like Worthington in a previous era, a manager who is "nice" seems to be able to get away with anything. No one wants him to fail, but many do want change when it patently has not been working over an extended period.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Reply to the OP...I like your optimism, but think we are heading for the drop atm. Just can''t see us picking up points atm

[Hairy Canary 668]

SYG Said "

Not gutless at all, 36/37 defeats out of 50 games in charge is not good enough at all! He has to go"

Where did you get this rubbish from. I know we all have our opinions and as it happens I think its time for a change but making stuff up like this is pretty prro

[KeelansGlove 0]

In the dictionary beside the phrase "happy clapper" surely there is a picture of LDC.

I salute your blind faith and ability to find a reason to think positive thoughts regarding NCFC although it must surely be due to mind altering substances.

Clueless really doesn''t begin to cover the abilities of our manager and I am certain that if he were to remain our manager for the remainder of the season we will be relegated.

The real shame of our situation is that I believe we have better players than most just not a manger who can motivate, inspire and organise.

See you in the Championship.

[Tumbleweed 106]

It''s the two coaches as well KG, when the players aren''t performing to the extent we witness there is a significant element coming from the training field, such as the defensive ineptness we are now seeing. Sadly I think all 3 need to be replaced.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]Well LDC may have a different view but, from what I read on here, I believe that the great majority are far from Gutless Whingers but actually truly concerned fans who are genuinely worried that despite our record transfer spending and recruitment of some really good players the management team is not capable of creating a team which is capable of competing properly in this league.

While of course there is a good helping of sensationalist nonsense, much of the comment is well rounded and fair. It points out glaring deficiencies in all sorts of areas. If this were just one or two things going wrong, or one or two people on some kind of vendetta, than fair enough. But it isn''t. There are folk who go every week and travel hundreds of miles with real concerns.

And the bottom line is that after having worked so hard to get us here (remember that the fans who are called gutless whingers stuck by this club through the dark days of league 1 with sell out crowds) it is galling to see it being frittered away and even more disappointing to feel that strong action may not be taken. Like Worthington in a previous era, a manager who is "nice" seems to be able to get away with anything. No one wants him to fail, but many do want change when it patently has not been working over an extended period.[/quote]

To take your points one by one.  

We are all concerned fans and want things to be better.  The "gutless" comment applies to those who only find bad things to say about Hughton and refuse to give him any credit when things are better. 

I also agree that a lot of the criticism is rounded and fair, but there is plenty that is just closed minded nonsense as well.  

I also travel hundreds of miles a season and spend significant amounts supporting the club including the League 1 season - especially the League 1 season.  

Lambert could apparently do no wrong - but I saw at least three away matches that were without question the direst of the dire - Sunderland, Blackburn and Mcity away, and several home matches where we looked tactically inept.   Hughton can apparently do no right, but I saw a response from the players against West Ham, when their confidence must have been low. I saw a good performance against Cardiff.    We had only a narrow defeat on Saturday at a difficult stadium to play at.  

It all depends what you want to see. Yes its tough at the moment, but better to be tough and trying to find your way in the premiership than being tough and trying to get out of the Championship, surely?

Harping back to Worthington is completely different.   Worthy didn''t have the tactical ability to organise the team well at the top level.  We have seen in snatches and in a ten match unbeaten run last season that Hughton is capable. 

Finally, "Nice" has nothing to do with it.  Actually, I don''t see Hughton as "nice", I see him as businesslike and respectful to others.  We could all learn from that. Oh, and he hasn''t failed, btw.   Its as ever, a work in progress.  We need patience.

[*** 0]

Did you have relatives on the Titanic Lakey?

 

I bet they thought the extra ice was for their gins.

[TCCANARY 263]

 

"Ah, you have no counter arguement just point scoring, predictable"

 

[TIL 1010 4,718]

Three very good posts all on the same page from Hogesar,vos and Tumbleweed for me sum up the thoughts and concerns of thousands of supporters.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

If there are any gutless points on this thread, then the vast majority are from Lakey, in his post above.

The whole thing smacks of "jam tomorrow", and has been from him and his ilk for weeks now.

The very idea of calling people who took the trouble to go all the way up to SJP, then give perfectly reasoned criticism ,"gutless" is as preposterous as it is patronising and insulting.

I seem to remember that the week before Xmas last year we''d amassed 25 pts. For that to reoccur this time round, basically we have to win ALL our games between now and then .Including at Anfield !

So, I just don''t buy this "we''re doing just as well this season as last" guff .

[YankeeCanary 0]

 

I have no problem with Lakey being positive any more than I have with others being concerned or negative. What I do have a problem with is when Lakey starts threads on here ( as he has always done ) with this kind of input:

"We are all concerned fans and want things to be better.  The "gutless" comment applies to those who only find bad things to say about Hughton and refuse to give him any credit when things are better"  but, of course, as is always the case with Lakey  who is only seeking personal attention to his threads, he didn''t actually say the aforementioned when he began the thread. What he said was, "Gutless - fans calling for Hughton to go after a narrow away defeat. " 

He repeatedly starts threads and refers to posters as "many", "most", "plenty" or "those" rather than identifying the poster/s he has a problem with, thereby tarring all posters expressing concerns or a different point of view with the same brush, rather than directly confronting a poster who he finds offensive. This is what is truly "gutless."

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Where is this "we''re doing just as well this season as last" guff Reggie? I just read the thread and I didn''t see it.

 

 

[JF 694]

Hughton''s problem is that he just keeps handing out an endless suply of sticks for people to beat him with. His desicion to play Elmander on the right was a joke after Pilkington''s injury and then the attacking changes that were needed came 1 minute from time.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Fascinating responses from people with a closed minded attitude. Fascinating how people assume I don''t go to matches. Fascinating how people twist what I have said - particularly Yankee.

But, when all said and done, the bottom line is the same. There are those who have closed their minds to the possibilities that always exist - in other words that things can and will improve. React to what you see by all means, but the players have to do their jobs, cut out the mistakes, build some confidence and then we will see what the team can do. So you can stick your closed minded negativity and gutless "support". Criticise by all means but the overreaction on here and the constant calling for the manager''s head is puerile, negative and helps no one, least of all the team.

[TIL 1010 4,718]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Fascinating responses from people with a closed minded attitude. Fascinating how people assume I don''t go to matches. Fascinating how people twist what I have said - particularly Yankee. But, when all said and done, the bottom line is the same. There are those who have closed their minds to the possibilities that always exist - in other words that things can and will improve. React to what you see by all means, but the players have to do their jobs, cut out the mistakes, build some confidence and then we will see what the team can do. So you can stick your closed minded negativity and gutless "support". Criticise by all means but the overreaction on here and the constant calling for the manager''s head is puerile, negative and helps no one, least of all the team.[/quote]

I highlighted three very good posts on page 3 from Hogesar,vos and Tumbleweed which for me capture the mood surrounding what is going on but hey ho off you go yet again with your broad brush sweeping statements about people having a closed mind.

In my view you are the one with a closed mind who refuses to accept the reality of what is going on before our very eyes.

[Izaak Hunt 0]

Well well well havnt you changed your tune T(s)illy

[TIL 1010 4,718]

[quote user="Paris Lees Missing Tackle"]Well well well havnt you changed your tune T(s)illy[/quote]

How do you work that out ?

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="lake district canary"]There are those who have closed their minds to the possibilities that always exist - in other words that things can and will improve. [/quote]Been hearing that promise since the Hull game in August - it''ll be December later this week and we''re still waiting.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Right, Lakey. Let''s cut to the chase now.

You accuse us all of being closed minded. Fair enough...your call. And that , of course makes you open minded.

So, with the benefit of this wide open mind of yours, precisely when (in all the scenarios available to you), if things don''t improve, will you feel it fit to say : "things have gone far enough, matters are not gettting any better, and it''s time for a change" ?

Your open mind must have weighed up the plethora of options to choose from. ie , is there a point in which your open mind will finally say we need a new direction. ?

[YellowNets1901 0]

Haven''t read previous posts but 13 wins in 51 games. Not good. He won''t last the season.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Right, Lakey. Let''s cut to the chase now.

You accuse us all of being closed minded. Fair enough...your call. And that , of course makes you open minded.

So, with the benefit of this wide open mind of yours, precisely when (in all the scenarios available to you), if things don''t improve, will you feel it fit to say : "things have gone far enough, matters are not gettting any better, and it''s time for a change" ?

Your open mind must have weighed up the plethora of options to choose from. ie , is there a point in which your open mind will finally say we need a new direction. ?[/quote]

My " open mind" tells me that it should be painfully obvious to most people when the manager would be at risk.  When we are cut off at the bottom of the table with no signs of improving.  We are not at the bottom.  We are in the mix with several other clubs for a mid table position.   With a little luck a little confidence and a lot of hard work and belief,  we will imo see better from the team we have and under this manager too.  As for directions, in football there are only two directions - up or down.   I sincerely hope the team win on Saturday and move up the table.

I described the Hughton out callers as gutless, maybe a bit harsh.   Maybe I should have put "impatient" instead.  That''s all that is lacking - patience.  But there seems to be a lot of noise from "I want it and I want it now"  brigade.   I''m not saying it couldn''t be better, of course it could be, but we''re in the mix for mid table.   What more should we be expecting?  Top 6?   Dream on.

All that is lacking is a bit of confidence, some team adaption to cope with the injuries - and perhaps a little luck along the way. 

[TIL 1010 4,718]

[quote user="lake district canary"]  But there seems to be a lot of noise from "I want it and I want it now"  brigade.  

[/quote]

Formerly known as the Hughton Outers. [;)]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pm4fQRl72k

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="YellowNets1901"]Haven''t read previous posts but 13 wins in 51 games. Not good. He won''t last the season.[/quote]

 

In exactly the same period of time Lambert has managed 14 wins. And less points than Hughton. That may not make the stat any better but what it certainly does do is add context.

 

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

LDC- I don''t think anyone has closed their mind to the possibility that things can improve. Where we disagree is whether they will under the current regime. My opinion based on all the evidence I have before me is that they will not. It is not about my mind being closed but my assessment of things as they stand. If we get some good performances which address some of the many issues which have been highlighted time and again (and I stress once more, not just by one or two crazies, but contributors whose opinion I respect) then I will start to believe that things will indeed get better. You have your own view, and you are entitled to that. We all decide based on our own interpretation. But just because many do not share your view (and have taken the time to explain why they do not) does not make them closed minded or gutless.