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The Great Mass Debater

Why did people want Worthy out?

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My impression of why there was the Worthy out campaign, is that it was to do with, in part relegation, a large proportion because of the sale of top players and the replacement of them with inferior players (which Im sure most fans will now look upon as being rather harsh as these were probably well beyond his control - he tried to do the best with what he had), the failure to mount much of a promotion campaign after relegation, and the style of football (#have a little hoofing!#)  

What parallels do you think can be drawn between this scenario, and the Hughton Out campaign, that is at least circulating on this board. Think the general concencus is that Worthy was being treated unfairly. To what extent did that treatment come from the style of play, and the fans not being happy with what they were watching, and how much came from the success of the club?

Quite an obvious difference in the two ''camps'' is that the inners seem to cite league position, with the outers citing performances. Is this the difference between the two camps? and how does this compare to the Worthy Out campaign?

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Sorry, also meant to bring up under ''success of the club'' the finances of the club. The club is certainly now financially successful - something we werent in the Worthy era. Not relevent to the impression of the manager, as nothing to do with the manager, but think this brings in a different element in that perceptions of the club''s success might be different in different financial climates

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It was his inability to win against teams on the beach. Fulham were veritably drowning in factor 30 yet beat us 6-0. Worthington took us to the point where it literally couldn''t be any worse. Hughton is there now too.

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Lose games, struggle near relegation trap door, managers team selection queried etc etc.Worthy Out!Megson Out!Deehan Out!Grant Out! Roeder Out! Gunn Out!Nothing new under the sun.[:D]

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I didn''t think Worthy was treated unfairly myself.

 

When we were promoted, it was tame and you never really felt we were going to survive.  He then got a full year in the Champ when we never looked like competing for promotion, it was early in the following season with no signs of improvement that he was sacked.  We can debate resources available until the cows come home but there was just no sign of the team competing for promotion back into the Prem.

 

 

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]It was his inability to win against teams on the beach. Fulham were veritably drowning in factor 30 yet beat us 6-0. Worthington took us to the point where it literally couldn''t be any worse. Hughton is there now too.[/quote]

 

Umm... I think it could be a fair bit worse Warren - we could be in the relegation zone for starters...

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I''m afraid Worthington just didnt have the capability (or will?) to motivate the squad for another promotion challenge after we were relegated. Allied to this some bad purchases following the relegation i.e Thorne,Andy Hughes, Louis-Jean etc.

I remember going to Millwall one midweek after early-ish in the season after we went down and looked at our side ,and on paper we surely had one of the strongest spines in the division at the time.....Green,Davenport,Safri,Ashton....and the fact that we still had Huckerby too...and I thought we''ve got to be coming to place like this and winning, just as we were able to do 2 seasons earlier when we got promotion.

we lost the game 1-0 , and I thought then that Worthy just didnt have it in him to ''go again''

losing Ashton in January ofd course didnt help, but Earnshaw was a good replacement at that level but if we weren''t going to go straight back up the first time of asking, we certainly weren''t the second or third. As time went on players that left were graudually replaced by inferior players and we just fell back into being the mid table championship side we were for 8 or so years prior to promotion.

The signs were there quite early I think, in hindsight the situation was allowed to carry on a year longer that it should have. In my opinion Worthy didnt have the motivation, but wasnt going to resign (financial reasons?, who knows?), the board should have acted earlier than they did.

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He hadn''t helped himself when we got promoted by letting Iwan and Malky go. They had been a big part of the promotion campaign but Worthy felt they had no place. That may or may not have been right but it had a big negative impact on the togetherness and ethic of the squad which wasn''t replaced.

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On results and in particular the way the team went down without a wimper from the Premier League then he should probably have been released then and not continued the season after, which I felt was the main issue thereafter. As for being treated badly, thats an absolute under statement in respect of the way the so called fans treated him towards the end. He actually left with a very decent win ratio but had just run his course with our club I guess. For me, that was all very different to the current situation, really very different.The pressure to succeed in this league is now much more intense and as a result the pressure on the Managers is considerably more, particularly in terms of how long they get in the job before the financial pressures of potential relegation start to hang heavy, hence there is certainly a strong possibility that if things go Pete Tong tomorrow CH will not be sleeping very well for a few days whilst the Board gather behind closed doors. 

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[quote user="Tumbleweed"]He hadn''t helped himself when we got promoted by letting Iwan and Malky go. They had been a big part of the promotion campaign but Worthy felt they had no place. That may or may not have been right but it had a big negative impact on the togetherness and ethic of the squad which wasn''t replaced.[/quote]

 

I don''t think he was alone in thinking that they wouldn''t up to a Premier League season, a lot of fans queried Malky''s pace and when he did move it was to what was then a Championship side. The second half of the promotion season Iwan had been used as an impact sub, at about twenty minutes to go it was ''Iwan time''.

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]He hadn''t helped himself when we got promoted by letting Iwan and Malky go. They had been a big part of the promotion campaign but Worthy felt they had no place. That may or may not have been right but it had a big negative impact on the togetherness and ethic of the squad which wasn''t replaced.[/quote]

I don''t think he was alone in thinking that they wouldn''t up to a Premier League season, a lot of fans queried Malky''s pace and when he did move it was to what was then a Championship side. The second half of the promotion season Iwan had been used as an impact sub, at about twenty minutes to go it was ''Iwan time''.

[/quote]

 

For me it wasn''t letting Malky go per se - the problem was we ended up playing Simon Charlton at centre half and conceded plenty of straightforward headed goals which Malky would have dealt with comfortably.  and yes, Iwan''s role had been reduced in the season before, but again I still thought he could have added something important the following season - especially as we ended up playing the Doc as our main striker after about 10 games !

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What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^

N the first half of the season we really struggled up front, had no presence until we signed Ashton in January. Iwan would have made a difference in the early season. Someone who could keep the ball and take the pressure off etc.

Charlton at centre half was a joke malky would have done much better.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

I''m afraid Worthington just didnt have the capability (or will?) to motivate the squad for another promotion challenge after we were relegated. Allied to this some bad purchases following the relegation i.e Thorne,Andy Hughes, Louis-Jean etc.

I remember going to Millwall one midweek after early-ish in the season after we went down and looked at our side ,and on paper we surely had one of the strongest spines in the division at the time.....Green,Davenport,Safri,Ashton....and the fact that we still had Huckerby too...and I thought we''ve got to be coming to place like this and winning, just as we were able to do 2 seasons earlier when we got promotion.

we lost the game 1-0 , and I thought then that Worthy just didnt have it in him to ''go again''

losing Ashton in January ofd course didnt help, but Earnshaw was a good replacement at that level but if we weren''t going to go straight back up the first time of asking, we certainly weren''t the second or third. As time went on players that left were graudually replaced by inferior players and we just fell back into being the mid table championship side we were for 8 or so years prior to promotion.

The signs were there quite early I think, in hindsight the situation was allowed to carry on a year longer that it should have. In my opinion Worthy didnt have the motivation, but wasnt going to resign (financial reasons?, who knows?), the board should have acted earlier than they did.

[/quote]

 

I remember that Millwall game well, it was after that that we first got to hear Stupid Barry on the radio.

I also remember that season very well. We''d obviously just come down and let''s be honest, we thought we''d walk that league. After those 3 opening 1-1 draws (all at home too because of Coventry''s stadium not being ready) things were starting to look ominous in my book. I think Worthy probably thought we''d walk it too. But his summer signings were poor beyond belief. Andy Hughes and Peter Thorne, two of the worst players I''ve seen in the yellow and green, and wtf was the deal with Jason Jarrett?! I think it was the summer before this season (or may have been the one after) where Doomcaster felt compelled to write a blog on the official Norwich website of transfer deadline day to almost prove that we were trying to bring players in. Ultimately Worthy''s top target of David Cotterill went elsewhere and we actually ended up with f*** all.

I agree that the board should have acted earlier then, and it looked like it was going to happen as it was shaping up to be a dreadful season, then we won 5 on the bounce in December - suddenly people were talking about play-offs! And the Worthy Out campaign that had been gaining momentum up until that point was shot down. I think if the board had acted then, then it wouldn''t have been such a nasty exit for NW, but then again, who would we have replaced him with I wonder?

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Well where shall we start. I think Dickson Etuhu was one of the reasons. He had the audacity to play Etuhu when Rossi Jarvis could have done a better job. I''m sure there''s plenty more and they''re all in the archives of this message board.

 

 

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I remember a certain pub in Norwich I frequented at the time and in those days you regularly saw Norwich City players having the odd jar...

They would openly talk to strangers interested in the club - me included - and openly criticise Worthington. He wasn''t even rated when we got promoted, so the rot was in very early on.

Worthington was a manager of limited value and got found out on and off the pitch. The club took too long to get rid of him. Had they had a ruthless streak at try time, they might not of got relegated, but Delia was far too close to him and ran the club like a train set. It was only when Mcnally came to the club that we became a proper professional club in my view, though hanging onto dead wood like Hughton isn''t doing anyone any favours...

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it was a number of reasons for me, not in any order but have listed below.Selling Malky and Iwan - they might not have got much game time, but dressing room leaders were needed. Iwan and Malky both knew where the goal was, 1 goal each could have been a 2-1 win and survival.replacing a good side with utter dross - Robinson for Francis, Captain clap for Jonson, Simon charlton for Malky, Peter Thorne for Iwan... the list goes on.Worthy''s attitude - "I don''t care what the fans think, i''m in charge" - the day he made that statement he should have been sacked, he thought he was untouachable and lasted another 14 months with fans turning on him week by week.there were a few other things. The board (including Delia and MWJ) were just as culpable. The sad and worrying thing is, if we didn''t force their hand they would have hung on to Worthy despite the club spiralling downwards rapidly.. his attitude and Ego would only have ended up with him losing the dressing room and we wouldn''t be where we are now... in fact I think we''d have been league 2.

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It''s Character Forming" said "I didn''t think Worthy was treated unfairly myself.

When we were promoted, it was tame and you never really felt we were going to survive.  He then got a full year in the Champ when we never looked like competing for promotion, it was early in the following season with no signs of improvement that he was sacked.  We can debate resources available until the cows come home but there was just no sign of the team competing for promotion back into the Prem."

I agree with this. Far from being badly treated Worthy got 18 months more employment with City than his performance deserved.

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I agree with this. Far from being badly treated Worthy got 18 months more employment with City than his performance deserved.

Yep

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[quote user="Vanwink"]I agree with this. Far from being badly treated Worthy got 18 months more employment with City than his performance deserved. Yep[/quote]

 

You really don''t think he was badly treated? Ask Darren Huckerby what the dressing room was like with fans shouting dogs abuse from outside. The personal hatred shown towards Worthy from a section of our fans wouldn''t even have been acceptable for a binner manager.

 

As for his performance as a manager all I''ll say is each and every season he was in charge was better than anything else between 1995 and 2009. Some people still can''t show him any respect!

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Vanwink"]I agree with this. Far from being badly treated Worthy got 18 months more employment with City than his performance deserved. Yep[/quote]

 

You really don''t think he was badly treated? Ask Darren Huckerby what the dressing room was like with fans shouting dogs abuse from outside. The personal hatred shown towards Worthy from a section of our fans wouldn''t even have been acceptable for a binner manager.

 

As for his performance as a manager all I''ll say is each and every season he was in charge was better than anything else between 1995 and 2009. Some people still can''t show him any respect!

 

 

[/quote]

not sure if anyone here is showing any lack of respect?....the question is ''why did people want Worthington out?''...and people are attempting to answer it?

no one will ever forget the playoff final season or the promotion winning season but surely anyone could see that it wasnt right for the couple f years after that. We had a squad following relegation allied with the parachute payments (admittedly not what they are today but still relatively sizable back then) that should have seen us compete better than we did.

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Only the idiots wanted Worthy out. Just look at what happened after Worthy left!

And but for a brief spell under O''Neill which matched some of Worthy''s reign, there was nothing between 1995 & 2009 that was better!

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Only the idiots wanted Worthy out. Just look at what happened after Worthy left!

And but for a brief spell under O''Neill which matched some of Worthy''s reign, there was nothing between 1995 & 2009 that was better![/quote]

eh?....you cant surely think that he could have continued do you?..were you not present at his last game in charge 1-4 vs Burnley?,when the players showed how much they wanted to save his job?

just because of what followed doesnt mean that he shouldnt have gone.....if it got wor afterwards then blame the complete amatuers we had at board level for the progressvely distastrous managerial appointments afterwards, i.e Munby,Doncaster and Delia and Wynn Jones who''ve hopefully forfeited their right to ever have involvement in appointing managers again. Of Roeder,Grant and Gunn, 2 of these werent even football managers in the first place.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Vanwink"]I agree with this. Far from being badly treated Worthy got 18 months more employment with City than his performance deserved. Yep[/quote]

 

You really don''t think he was badly treated? Ask Darren Huckerby what the dressing room was like with fans shouting dogs abuse from outside. The personal hatred shown towards Worthy from a section of our fans wouldn''t even have been acceptable for a binner manager.

 

As for his performance as a manager all I''ll say is each and every season he was in charge was better than anything else between 1995 and 2009. Some people still can''t show him any respect!

 

 

[/quote]

not sure if anyone here is showing any lack of respect?....the question is ''why did people want Worthington out?''...and people are attempting to answer it?

no one will ever forget the playoff final season or the promotion winning season but surely anyone could see that it wasnt right for the couple f years after that. We had a squad following relegation allied with the parachute payments (admittedly not what they are today but still relatively sizable back then) that should have seen us compete better than we did.

[/quote]

 

Well that doesn''t excuse the dogs abuse a section of our fans gave the fella. He never finished lower than 9th in the Champs. What did Walker2, Rioch, Hamilton, Grant, Roeder and Gunn deserve then?

 

 

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[quote user="Vanwink"]" Some people still can''t show him any respect!" Who are they?[/quote]

 

People showing him respect?

 

Not on this thread. Where do you see ''em?

 

While you''re here Winky are you really old enough to remember the Charlton brothers?

 

 

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