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Syteanric

Norwich - Palace Match thread

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Phew, that was a nervy 2nd half, becchio played well when on. Still a team low in confidence though. If we were italian then defending our 1 nil lead may have been more comfortable, but we''re not and it wasnt.

Still ,3pts. outs 4 clear rel zone and only 2 pts off top half.

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[quote user="Le Juge"]"Am I the only one not happy with this result?"

No I''m absolutely devastated to win, I was desperate for a 1-1 draw.

Now if you want to talk about performance, or tactics....[/quote]You''re an idiot. Why were you desperate for a 1-1 draw?What kind of deranged fan are you?Oh..I get it...you take a single sentence and ignore the rest.Is not the game that was played the result of a weeks preparation, just as the score line is the result of the effort on game day?Wow...next you''ll be focusing in on my ''coal'' typo.......If you missed my point, just admit it.

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Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

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[quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.

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I listened on the radio so can''t comment on the quality of play, but

We have a lot of injuries

We have injuries concentrated in wide midfield areas not evenly spread

The game had the pressure of a ''must win''

Palace players will have been geed up by a new manager, more so after half time

The style of play we faced was the kind of direct play Norwich historically fail against

Wes was played wide which has never suited him and lacked match fitness

In the position we are in the scrappy results are important, in fact with the position we are in I would take going back to last season''s dire shut up shop football because we never give ourselves a chance in games.

Hughton set up his side well and the subs were ok. Playing Becchio could be interpreted as weak and reactionary but he has been on the subs bench this season and he was like for like with Elmander so I''ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

These are the games we need to win. Now it''s important not to have confidence shattered by Liverpool.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.[/quote]

Agreed that winning is preferable to not winning, but is beating up a middle schooler for their candy better than having no candy at all?

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[quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.[/quote]

Agreed that winning is preferable to not winning, but is beating up a middle schooler for their candy better than having no candy at all?

[/quote]

If you like candy then it is. And I certainly like three points.

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[quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.[/quote]

Agreed that winning is preferable to not winning, but is beating up a middle schooler for their candy better than having no candy at all?

[/quote]It depends if you''re also a middle schooler and are part of the top league in a professional "winner takes all the candy unless it''s a draw in which case you get slightly less than half each" competition, otherwise your analogy is a failure.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.[/quote]

Agreed that winning is preferable to not winning, but is beating up a middle schooler for their candy better than having no candy at all?

[/quote]It depends if you''re also a middle schooler and are part of the top league in a professional "winner takes all the candy unless it''s a draw in which case you get slightly less than half each" competition, otherwise your analogy is a failure.

[/quote]There''s always one who tries to be clever and just doesn''t quite hit the mark.Well, Mister Chops you have taken your keen intellect and applied it in a poor fashion to justify a weakly applied ''if'' in order to undermine a valid analogy.Can you please share with me an example of when a middle schooler - and I''ll go out on a limb here since I myself do not know - has been a part of any ''top league in a professional'' setting. If you can, then I''ll be happy to entertain your response. Otherwise, such a reply is in fact tragically flawed and verges on pitiful at best in its attempt to distract from the fact that Norwich City put in a good to average performance, against a pi55 poor team. Now I''m sure, Mister Chops, that you''re good with numbers, so you shouldn''t struggle in arriving at that after today''s performance, added with our previous string of results, that we will struggle to hold water for the rest of the season. - Please let me know if you have trouble with the ''holding water'' analogy. I''d be happy to explain.In short:We should expect to struggle against the likes of Man City & Man U. (Losses & Poached Draws)We should expect to hold our own and compete with the likes of Newcastle & Tottenham (Draws & Wins)We should expect to beat teams such as Stoke & Cardiff (Wins)We should expect be resoundingly thump teams such as Crystal Palace & Sunderland (Convincing Wins)

We SHOULD NOT be celebrating the eeking out of a win against a team that should be int eh Championship!

I for one would be a shade shy of giving the team a good hiding after that result. Yes we got the three points, but if anyone is convinced that a professional footballer/athlete would genuinely have their confidence built from beating a poor team in a poor fashion, at home, then they are seriously deluded. This game should''ve been a text book, real pressure training session. If you''ve never coached, then you probably don''t understand where I''m coming from.

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Go on then, for a laugh I took your expectations at face value and had a look at what you expect from us based upon your groupings:

If Man City, Man.Utd are in 1 group , I would assume you would add Arsenal,Chelsea and Liverpool too.

You would expect losses with poached draws- 10 games against them - let''s assume 3 poached draws (3)

Next group:

Newcastle and Spurs, I have put Villa,Southampton, Everton and WBA in this group- you expect draws and wins

Six teams, lets say 6 wins and 6 draws (24pts)

Next group: Stoke and Cardiff, lets assume Swansea WHU, and Fulham in this group of expected wins: 5 teams, 10 games (30pts)

Lastly the convincing wins category: Palace and Sunderland, I assume Hull are in this too - doesnt matter if convincing or just wins really.

3 teams, 6 games (18pts)

This gives a total of 75 points gained, last year we would have been just behind Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs only!!!

Are you for real???!!!

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[quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Man Who Stares at Goats"]Wow... I see a lot of responses that are similar to crack heads in denial and those in abusive relationships. Listen to yourselves, hooray, we won...wohooo! Honestly? It seems there are a number of fans who are lost in an artificial high of a quick 3 point win; choosing not to look at the bigger picture that we are in real trouble.  Yea...4 points from the drop...other teams around us lost... It''s looking so rosy for us now. We''re going to be exposed to an embarrassing level between now and Christmas.the reality is we put on a good show against a Championship team in the middle of a managerial change. Not winning this game by three of four goals is a serious concern. Scraping a one-nil win is not exciting, inspiring or confidence building.Some of you are so far asleep that when you do wake up, you''ll find your coffee is cold.

[/quote]I repeat that I am happy with the result, but not impressed with the performance.  However, "winning ugly" is preferable to not winning.[/quote]

Agreed that winning is preferable to not winning, but is beating up a middle schooler for their candy better than having no candy at all?

[/quote]It depends if you''re also a middle schooler and are part of the top league in a professional "winner takes all the candy unless it''s a draw in which case you get slightly less than half each" competition, otherwise your analogy is a failure.

[/quote]There''s always one who tries to be clever and just doesn''t quite hit the mark.Well, Mister Chops you have taken your keen intellect and applied it in a poor fashion to justify a weakly applied ''if'' in order to undermine a valid analogy.Can you please share with me an example of when a middle schooler - and I''ll go out on a limb here since I myself do not know - has been a part of any ''top league in a professional'' setting. If you can, then I''ll be happy to entertain your response. Otherwise, such a reply is in fact tragically flawed and verges on pitiful at best in its attempt to distract from the fact that Norwich City put in a good to average performance, against a pi55 poor team. Now I''m sure, Mister Chops, that you''re good with numbers, so you shouldn''t struggle in arriving at that after today''s performance, added with our previous string of results, that we will struggle to hold water for the rest of the season. - Please let me know if you have trouble with the ''holding water'' analogy. I''d be happy to explain.In short:We should expect to struggle against the likes of Man City & Man U. (Losses & Poached Draws)We should expect to hold our own and compete with the likes of Newcastle & Tottenham (Draws & Wins)We should expect to beat teams such as Stoke & Cardiff (Wins)We should expect be resoundingly thump teams such as Crystal Palace & Sunderland (Convincing Wins)

We SHOULD NOT be celebrating the eeking out of a win against a team that should be int eh Championship!

I for one would be a shade shy of giving the team a good hiding after that result. Yes we got the three points, but if anyone is convinced that a professional footballer/athlete would genuinely have their confidence built from beating a poor team in a poor fashion, at home, then they are seriously deluded. This game should''ve been a text book, real pressure training session. If you''ve never coached, then you probably don''t understand where I''m coming from.

[/quote]Your initial analogy was ludicrous.I pointed out how ludicrous it was by extending it to its logical conclusion, i.e. Norwich City could only "steal a middle schooler''s candy" (WTF?) in Premier League terms if "Norwich City" was itself a middle schooler in a professionally organised candy stealing league.Your attempted justification is of no interest to me.  You may understand coaching, but you have a lot of work to do on analogies.

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ex-greeno''schin wrote the following post at 30/11/2013 7:44 PM:

Go on then, for a laugh I took your expectations at face value and had a look at what you expect from us based upon your groupings:

If Man City, Man.Utd are in 1 group , I would assume you would add Arsenal,Chelsea and Liverpool too.

You would expect losses with poached draws- 10 games against them - let''s assume 3 poached draws (3)

Next group:

Newcastle and Spurs, I have put Villa,Southampton, Everton and WBA in this group- you expect draws and wins

Six teams, lets say 6 wins and 6 draws (24pts)

Next group: Stoke and Cardiff, lets assume Swansea WHU, and Fulham in this group of expected wins: 5 teams, 10 games (30pts)

Lastly the convincing wins category: Palace and Sunderland, I assume Hull are in this too - doesnt matter if convincing or just wins really.

3 teams, 6 games (18pts)

This gives a total of 75 points gained, last year we would have been just behind Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs only!!!

Are you for real???!!!

That''s part of our problem greeno, fans have yet to properly understand the League we are in and what we can realistically expect to achieve at our stage of development.

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"That''s part of our problem greeno, fans have yet to properly understand the League we are in and what we can realistically expect to achieve at our stage of development."

It''s just a childish "I want it all, and I want it now" attitude.

I wonder how many would take the relative stability that west brom enjoy now?

Plenty, I reckon. Of course, they''d completely ignore how west brom got there by yo-yo-ing up and down for a few years. Something that we''ve managed to not do so far.

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I haven''t had a chance before now, but your signature pic is awesome. Agree with your points to.

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[quote user="ex-greeno schin"]Go on then, for a laugh I took your expectations at face value and had a look at what you expect from us based upon your groupings:

If Man City, Man.Utd are in 1 group , I would assume you would add Arsenal,Chelsea and Liverpool too.

You would expect losses with poached draws- 10 games against them - let''s assume 3 poached draws (3)

Next group:

Newcastle and Spurs, I have put Villa,Southampton, Everton and WBA in this group- you expect draws and wins

Six teams, lets say 6 wins and 6 draws (24pts)

Next group: Stoke and Cardiff, lets assume Swansea WHU, and Fulham in this group of expected wins: 5 teams, 10 games (30pts)

Lastly the convincing wins category: Palace and Sunderland, I assume Hull are in this too - doesnt matter if convincing or just wins really.

3 teams, 6 games (18pts)

This gives a total of 75 points gained, last year we would have been just behind Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs only!!!

Are you for real???!!![/quote]

You''ve grouped the teams pretty much as I would. However, I''d see the realistic results more as: Man City, Man.Utd are in 1 group , I would assume you would add Arsenal,Chelsea and Liverpool too.

You would expect losses with poached draws- 10 games against them - let''s assume 3 poached draws (3) 

- Agreed and let''s throw in a win for 6 points.
Next group:

Newcastle and Spurs, I have put Villa,Southampton, Everton and WBA in this group- you expect draws and wins

Six teams, lets say 6 wins and 6 draws (24pts) - Here I would see 3 wins, 4 draws, 5 losses for 13 points.Stoke and Cardiff, lets assume Swansea WHU, and Fulham in this group of expected wins: 5 teams, 10 games (30pts) - 4 wins, 3 draws, 3 loses for 15 points.Palace and Sunderland, I assume Hull are in this too - doesnt matter if convincing or just wins really.

3 teams, 6 games (18pts)

- Agreed.
18 points.Total :: 52 points.Seems ''reasonable'' to me.

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Yesterday was another example of a game where Hughton showed how limited he is tactically. Any manager with a bit of tactical nous Would have used the injurys to Snoddy and Pilks to change the system. Imo we should have gone 4-3-3 with the same back four, Howson, Fer and BJ in midfeild and Redders and Becchio either side of Howson. Or equally we would have been better of playing a 5-3-2 wingback stystem with 3 CB''s and Whittaker and Olsson as wingbacks and three man midfeild with two up top. But as Hughton is so tactically limited he would rather play players out of position (rg Wes wide right) than change from the 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 that seems to be the only way he knows how to play. Hughton has to be the worst tactician in the league.

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